What's Happening To Big Bores?

[xsummitx]

Buy it! Ride it stock sell it for less of a loss and move on to the next new model

i am sorry imo there is not a stock sled that does not need some mods to suit me.....your right less loss... that=less fun...in your avatar two of the three sleds have visable mods....????? one far from stock....so stock doesn't suit you either ......then the ? is how far do you go...for me it starts small,just reeds or and a can, then the whole sled is in pieces and i have 15 boxes of upgrades and i am best friends with the fedex man...so we are talking about where the big cc motors lost their luster to the main stream ....and i will have go with some of the posts...advertising and newbies...if i was to come into the sport today i would not know where to start....but my first mod was a 74 tnt with a polaris triple..what a great lite power ride....no one had even heard of turbos or independent front suspension then much less rider forward....most of the sleds then still had bogies and not slide rear suspensions...todays breed of sleds are soooo different.so i grew up on 2 smokers.so if was i was 16 now then only the "new" is cool...but i said it before...our guide "wild bill"william will ride circles around them with his old stock mm yammi 136.and you should have seen him on a 08 xp he was out of his element.i am too give me the stability of an older sled with big cc and you cant stop me unless your a tree.

 

[8alltheway]

As with most of us who live hours from any sort of mt., it tough to justify driving several hours an spending several hondos to get there to have to wrench when you do finally get there. it just doesn't make sense for me. don't get me wrong, i had high hopes about droppin a monster tripple into my zx, but fact is id be tinkering...alot, so i decided to buy new, ride the $hit out of it and not have to worry about it(hopefully).
it would be a whole different story tho, if i lived closer to the mts.

twin/tripple pipes forever!!!

 

[xsummitx]

As with most of us who live hours from any sort of mt., it tough to justify driving several hours an spending several hondos to get there to have to wrench when you do finally get there. it just doesn't make sense for me. don't get me wrong, i had high hopes about droppin a monster tripple into my zx, but fact is id be tinkering...alot, so i decided to buy new, ride the $hit out of it and not have to worry about it(hopefully).
it would be a whole different story tho, if i lived closer to the mts.

twin/tripple pipes forever!!!

i feel you ....amenthats what they make the 4m's for to get the input so less time is spent dialing and more time riding...i have had hours of tinker time shed from my tuning by the guys who live there.when i get 3 or 4 guys telling their set ups are the same for similar rigs and i set it that way and go i have had very little wrench time on the hill...and lots of skis in the air.

 

[modsledr]

Originally Posted by Skogen
I watched some turbos this weekend. Point and shoot. Dont get me wrong, it was impressive, but how much skill did i take to point and shoot up the hill. I know not every mod/turbo rider is like this, but many are. I wondered Saturday, what kind of marks they would be making on a stock sled like the rest of us, if they actually had to RIDE the machine, instead of pay somebody to put a turbo on it.

I have seen some VERY good riders on stock, or lightly modified sleds put up some sick marks in bowls. They got there because of their skill to ride, not because they dropped 7k for a turbo.

This takes the dumbest statement in a long time award.

MOST guys who ride turbo's are very good rider and learned how to handle sleds long before they got boost. MOST guys on turbo's went to turbo's because they could not find the HP they needed to take riding to a different level in big bore sleds. The fact is boondocking is fun but it does little for the adrenaline rush. Guys built turbo's so they can pull stuff that gives them a rush. Riding is always funner after you pull one of those gut wrenching chutes that put you on a natural high.

I agree...that was an ignorant statement.

Made the switch this year to boosted 4 stroke and its ROCKS in the technical stuff. We ride lots of trees and boondocking. Its also nice to have the power to climb what I want, and the power is also great for getting out of trouble.

Bottom line is this: There is NO correct answer. If you like the old iron, then ride the old iron. If the new stock stuff floats your boat, then ride that. And if you want to really rock n roll...boosted 4 stoke is the way to go!!!!!!

Regardless of your path, the destination is the same...havin fun in the steep and deep!!

Ride safe and have fun!!!!!

modsledr

 

[NoSecondChances]

..... finally got tired of tweaking, tuning, and wrenching on the 2 strokes and older chassis...........I love the turn key of the 4 stroke. No more oil. No more jetting changes.

What he said^^^^

Let me ask you how many miles and trips to the hills it took you to get the UBR dialed in? Adrenaline Addict, I'm with you as a mod sled big bore guy, but...you have to ride with other mod guys and have them enjoy you wrenching on your sled as much as you do and vice versa.

Most guys nowadays just want to ride. Not tweak jets, play with clutching, carry boxes of helixes to the hill and spend all day screwing around on the same terrain to get it dialed in, and then go to a different spot next weekend and spend 1/2 day playing with it again. While the stockers may not reach the same places that the mods can, they are pretty close in some situations, and like Winter Brew said, most people can't ride a stock sled to its capability anyway, so why bother big boring it? All the guys I ride with ride bone stock sleds, and I'm always the one wrenching on something, holding them back. More than one day this season I have let them run ahead while I wrenched, which left me alone, and effectively ruined a day of riding. On these days I longed for a stock sled that I could just pull and go. If sledding wasn't so expensive and we could all have 2 on the trailer, one stock and one mod, you would probably see more big bores, but when a stocker costs $14K, not too many people can afford to have another $20K sitting on the trailer as the "hobby" sled to play around with.

 

[modsledr]

I didnt start riding sleds until 2001...I came from roadracing and saw the demise of 2 strokes in road racing and supercross/motocross. When I got into this sport it seemed obvious that 4 strokes were coming.

Its only a matter of time before the 2 strokes are gone. Not saying I want that to happen, but its inevitable.

There are some positives: 4 strokes can make more RELIABLE horsepower, are more dependable, dont need oil, etc...

The downside is they are heavier, and CC for CC 2 strokes can make more power (just not as reliably).

4 strokes can hold the throttle down for as long as you want...how many modded 2 strokes can you say that about?

I dont have brand loyalty (manufacturers aren't loyal to me, why should I be loyal to them?), and I'm not emotionally attached to 2 strokes, so I made the switch...and I'm never looking back (unless its to see where you are on your 2 stroke!!)lol

 

[xsummitx]

you guys^^^^^^all make great points,but i have the new stocker and the mod on the trailer, i spend the time tinkering and i have held the others up a time or two....done the pull and go...but the time tinkering is always time well spent even with the box of parts to tag along....the stocker can only do what it can do out of the box.....the mod is what i make it and if i need change there is always the box of part to get me therei thought the new sled would give me more fun with no trouble...its efi i said all i have do i change primary weights to change elevation...may be give the sec.a twist...but more time than not as one who does wrench,i just get pissed at what i spent on the new one and not get what i need performace wise....which puts me right back to modding but now i am the guy that blew my mod wad on a new stocker.so if i would have just stuck adding to what i had instead of trying to keep up with the jones ...i would have one sled i just love...instead of one i like and one i hate.

 

[AdrenalineAddict]

NoSecondChances,
My mod was purchased second hand from a Polaris dealer who was building, tuning and tweaking prior to sending these sleds out the door. I can't say how long it would have taken myself to set it up right. I haven't touched a thing on my sled in 4 years, jetting or clutching, it seems to be very user friendly. I'm about one hundred RPM's short at 11,000' and I overrev by one or two hundred RPM's at 7,000'. My UBR has been nearly headache free, just routine polaris maintenance. I guess I could tune a bit to make it spot on but the powerband appears to be quite wide and forgiving. I've seen exactly what you are referring to (people wrenching on mods all day) I think there's finicky big bores and others that are as user friendly as stockers. I guess a guy needs some experience with one prior to purchasing to make sure you're not buying something that's difficult or impossible to tune.

 

[WatchThis!!!]

Scott, When I've seen those 4-stroke turbos up in Lamoile at the lake, It seems like they're always pulling their hoods off to do something. I don't know exactly what it was that they were doing, but it seemed like we spent way more time riding. Is R.D and all those guys just trying to tune to make it better? Or are they having troubles? Some of these guys on here are saying 4-stroke turbos are really reliable (im not saying there not) but we were making all the marks on the hill, While they were tuning.

Don't take this the wrong way guys, Those turbos are INSANE!

 

[AdrenalineAddict]

We have seen a couple of broke down (abandoned) torn apart turbos this season, I'm not sure what went bad. I think when their hoods are up they're adjusting boost Jay. The one thing I see with Turbos pumping big boost is constantly blowing the manifold off the throttle bodies, but I think those who have built a turbo or two have designed a fix for that problem. As you know, I like to jump a bit. I don't think there's an argument that the two smokers are superior in the freestyle, jumping discipline. They're easier to correct when airborne and don't punish you quite as bad when landing. I finally broke down and purchased Tom's sled a couple weeks ago, It's a low mileage UBR 900 with an awesome suspension. I've got four rides on that machine, it's a fun soft riding sled that may be a little too light in the front end. It's gonna take a little getting used to, that 2.5" track sure does hook up. Hopefully it will give me another few years of trouble free sledding.

 

[WatchThis!!!]

That's probably true. I do remember that brokedown T-RX over the backside that one day. I guess every sled has some ups and downs.

We saw you last Saturday on Tom's sled. Boy that sled looks really cool with the red/black. I think you'll have a blast with that track and the nearly new motor.

By the way, Are you going to Jackson for the Hillclimb?

 

[xsummitx]

woo hoo i sold the stocker.....anyone know of any complete good shape good deal on bb mods for sale..preferably a poo or doo,maybe a yammi if it has abunch of light weight stuff and 2 stroke....i am toy'n with fill'n the empty spot on the trailer now that i got one again if i can find the right deal ....other wise i might build one... for fun

 

[Wheel House Motorsports]

I just saw this year being the year that 2stroke turbos became "reliable", it seems that in the last year of being on this 4m that turbos went from high end custom builds, to every one and there buddy can slap one on, fill the tank full of $6+ a gallon race fuel and rip it all day.

i like to ride, but unless im with someone else who has to tinker, i feel like i am hindering everyone elses fun. for example, my dad rides a stock 2006 M7 153, the sled never has any problems, starts on the first or second pull no matter what, and flat rips. the thing takes him way higher then he will ever need to go. now my friend has a KK 900 mod toy, stock bore, just a finiky sled, he spends more time under the hood with the clutch apart than anyone i know, when it runs right it makes the M7 look like a 550F but thats maybe every other ride.
i have put 500ish miles on my sled this winter and burned down twice. now i have rebuilt the whole motor and its solid again and love riding it, but before it was a pull and go sled, i spent more time under the hood, checking plugs, toying with the clutches, it straight sucked, i wasted 1 of my 4 days in cooke city just trying to get my sled right. rode a stock F7 all winter while mine was waiting endlessly for parts,the wouldnt climb for crap, but it always ran, and ran hard, only opened the hood to dry off my gloves.

people just want reliablility and thats it.

 

[high time]

Hey, it's not just mod. sleds that are unrelieable.

Tinker, tinker, It's ok as long as most of what you do is to check out your sled. You must have ridden with guys who only ride and never check out their sled. Breaks down for a stupid reason.Yes, I spend a lot of time making sure of my tuning and adjustments, but while I'm doing it, I get to see if I have a bearing , seal, cracked chain, worn wire, etc. The end result is that my far out mod. is very relieable. One of my mods. was to replace the old 900 recoil with a new 1000, absolutely wonderful ! My goal is for my mod. to have great HP and be more dependable than stock. Not all mod sleds are equal.

Owen

 

[portgrinder]

Don't know what all the fuss is about. Mine works awesome. Maybe I just have a decent engine builder....

Not many true 'engine builders' left.

 

[kost-a-bunch]

big bores

I think big bores are great, if the motor benefits from it.

alot of the big bores use seizco pistons and builders don't know how to set them up, seize. puts a bad taste in alot of riders heads.

I get alot of calls from guys that have other kits using seizcos wishing they had a cast piston big bore like we build at Terra Alps Racing inc.
it cost $1000 min to get choppered out of the back country you should have a reliable motor to explore back there. some builders can make power on a dyno, man we seen alot of that but take it in the hills and it don't work better then a stock bore.
turbos make big power , alot of tinkering, fuel pressure adjustment, pistons, see it on the hills quite a bit, race fuel$. some mild ones run. but a good big bore runs with them , lighter.

we build alot of big bores for most brands 860 for ski doos 800r's using cast pistons, m8 to m900 using cast pistons, m1000 to 1200 kits using cast pistons and they work in the hills, cause we test them in the hills set up for pump gas.

Ted,
Terra Alps Racing inc.

 

[donbrown]

Being out West the shops are few and in between.

Most shops in California I've been to won't look at a mod sled. I have limited engine experience and it keeps me from getting a more modded sled. Other than pipes and a mild porting.

I agree with others here when purchasing a used sled. You don't know what you are gonna get ... especially if its modded.

I have a big bore and a 600 sled. I ride the 600 way more. Why ... all the other riders have 600 to 800 cc newer sleds and the 600 keeps up with them plus less maintenance and it is fun to ride.

 

[mattymac]

I dont know if you would classify my 1200 as a bigbore but it is bigger and WAY more powerfull than anything polaris put out to the public (even though its all polaris parts) factory cast pistons, stock cyls, nothing "exotic" that I have to wait for, can go to probably 90% of dealers and if I need a piston or even a cyl I could be up and running in a few days.

Have a buddy with a full mod custom F8 big bore, blew it up twice, only rode it about 3 times this year and was almost 2 months waiting on pistons alone!!!!! It just went down agin so its just sitting in his shop waiting till next year! Plus its 160.00 just for a piston and rings!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[kost-a-bunch]

tell your buddy to get rid of the seizco pistons and get some stock m-8 pistons. check the squish to .060" plus. and it will run forever.

later,

 

[AdrenalineAddict]

Wiseco's will treat you right if simply pay attention to the clearance recommendations. Every wiseco factory boxed piston has a required clearance printed on the box. .0055" to .0060" is where you want to be for a 3.5" bore. They will perform as designed all the way to .010". Alot of seized wiseco's are cold seizures, give your sled a long warm up and your motor will perform as it should. I'm pushing the 8,600 mile mark (and about 180 lbs. of N2O)on my sled with wisecos and have never had seizure problems. One cylinder measured .0098" piston to cylinder clearance and was still producing great power. If you build your motor as if it's cast .0025" to .0035" you'll be lucky to make it off the trailer.