What’d you think of trunp’s ideas to curb school shootings

[jerrydecoy]

Honestly I did enough back and forth on this to ascertain that our philosophy's on this are different. I'm not going to convince you more guns isn't the answer any more than you're going to convince me the opposite. I surely hope (and expect) that with the shear number of guns, owners, carriers, security guards, etc in the U.S. that there are many of stories of guns being used to stop a variety of crimes - it would stand to logic. Has it made US a safer place thus far? Doesn't appear so at this time. Fight fire with fire works in both directions.

So ....why haven't armed teachers and armed guards already been implemented already? Because it's an ugly solution, and a very reactive one. Rarely is a reactive solution the best - you are attempting to catch the problem at the last possible opportunity, and aren't doing anything to reduce the number of "attempts." You are also relying on average people to commit heroic acts - such as the case in this example, that can be asking too much of a person when it actually happens. Having a gun fight against someone who wants to die about the gnarliest thing I can imagine....I know people don't want to hear it but...." it's not the movies." I get the logic, and I'm not going to say it won't hold any water, or work out in some situations....I guess it's just sad if that's the best solution on the table.

There are already armed teachers and multiple schools with a police presence. Broward country resource officers as of Wednesday will now be packing ar’s rather then just a pistol. I know it’s not policy but it seems to be leaning that direction. Isn’t catching the problem anywhere better then nothing? I get it’s not ideal or an end all but you and I both know that no one is gonna go scoop up all the guns and that’s really the only way to completely stop this! Implement all the mental Heath programs you want and it’s still not gonna stop all of it. Put guns in all the schools and it won’t stop all of it but If guns in schools save 1 life is that not worth it? Same as saying if a mental health program stops one shooter that’s worth it!
Everyday around the globe a life is taken by someone with a gun and everyday a life is saved by someone with a gun. It happens in all kinds of places! No reasonably sane person would argue those two points but it’s a problem to let someone with a gun attempt to save a life in a school! And yes.. sometimes you have to agree to disagree!

 

[Vern]

Contrary to what you see on the mainstream media gun violence has been on the decline in the u.s. since the 90's, and average Joes with concealed weapons very regularly stop criminals. It's not the crazy wild wild west here like media would have you believe. These stories don't make the news because they go against their agenda, but you can do your own research to find them. I also believe having armed teachers would deter many would be shooters. Heck just making people believe there was armed teachers would probably do alot. This has nothing to do with ar15s, they're no more deadly than any other semi auto rifle. If there were no ar15s they'd just pick a different gun, like when columbine happened smack in the middle of an "assault" weapons ban. The mini 14 is the exact same gun as an ar15 but nobodies scared of them cuz they have a wood stock. You think there's devastation from a .22 cal bullet out of an ar, wait until someone pulls this with a shotgun loaded with buckshot. Raising the age limit or banning a gun cuz it looks scary won't change anything. You can try stricter mental health requirements, but that's a slippery slope. Who's gonna determine where the lines are on what constitutes someone from being mentally unfit to own a gun, and how are you going to keep politicians with an agenda from crossing that line? What we need is parents to stop being lazy and start parenting again and raising decent human beings instead of entitled little brats that have no concept of self accountability.

 

[jerrydecoy]

Contrary to what you see on the mainstream media gun violence has been on the decline in the u.s. since the 90's, and average Joes with concealed weapons very regularly stop criminals. It's not the crazy wild wild west here like media would have you believe. These stories don't make the news because they go against their agenda, but you can do your own research to find them. I also believe having armed teachers would deter many would be shooters. Heck just making people believe there was armed teachers would probably do alot. This has nothing to do with ar15s, they're no more deadly than any other semi auto rifle. If there were no ar15s they'd just pick a different gun, like when columbine happened smack in the middle of an "assault" weapons ban. The mini 14 is the exact same gun as an ar15 but nobodies scared of them cuz they have a wood stock. You think there's devastation from a .22 cal bullet out of an ar, wait until someone pulls this with a shotgun loaded with buckshot. Raising the age limit or banning a gun cuz it looks scary won't change anything. You can try stricter mental health requirements, but that's a slippery slope. Who's gonna determine where the lines are on what constitutes someone from being mentally unfit to own a gun, and how are you going to keep politicians with an agenda from crossing that line? What we need is parents to stop being lazy and start parenting again and raising decent human beings instead of entitled little brats that have no concept of self accountability.

I would say that something all of us can probably agree on is that “parenting “ has gone out the window!!!

 

[Skidoox]

The problem is not the gun it's the kids What, has changed with them? Video games? better bullies? bad parents that do not discipline there kids. Parents that do not let the teacher discipline there kids. participation trophy, no one is loser.
When I was in high school most to the trucks in the parking lot had a gun in the back window. No one would have thought it be OK to shoot up the school.

 

[Dobber1]

What we need is parents to stop being lazy and start parenting again and raising decent human beings instead of entitled little brats that have no concept of self accountability.

I would say that something all of us can probably agree on is that “parenting “ has gone out the window!!!

FINALLY! Both of you have said something I’ve been thinking about since before this past tragedy. It doesn’t really surprise me that more people aren’t suggesting this? It’s easier to let your kids go try to be somebody on the steps at the capitol, than to explain that some parents, shouldn’t have been.

I don’t even know where to begin? I guess just some random thoughts...

Maybe a little background...I grew up in “Mayberry” & had “June & Ward Cleaver” as parents. Middle child of 3 with a stay at home mother, single car family until the late 70s, father with a profession, perfect attendance at Sunday School during pre-teen years & punished when deserved. Mowed lawns & shoveled snow to earn money for entertainment, bikes, etc. before getting W-2 jobs to purchase car & motorcycles in high school.

Anyway...I know there’s a fine line between abuse & discipline, but once it became a crime to give a little attitude adjustment, especially in public, things seemed to go downhill from there. The lack of respect seems to be the biggest problem. Taking discipline out of the schools is another. You either respected teachers or wish you had once the principal said to assume the position. Then, you had to deal with what was going to get your attention when you got home from school.

Is it true 40-50% of all marriages end in divorce & even higher percentage for subsequent marriages? If so, that can’t be helping the children involved IMO.

When l was a teen, most kids had minimum wage service jobs. Now days, seems like very few do because they don’t have time as parents are taking them on 300 mile trips every weekend to play in some kind of “club sport” tournament. That’s the only way to make sure they’ll make the high school team, so they’re told. Then there’s the youth programs that don’t even keep score. SMH... If you don’t want to get beat, get better!

You always hear parents say they “need to go pick up their child from practice”, but rarely hear them say, “pick them up from work”.

Remember, taking your turn in elementary class holding the flag for the Pledge of Allegiance? Does that still happen?

Very few people pull off to the side of the road & stop to honor a funeral procession or for emergency vehicles.

IDK? People say “you can’t live in the past”, but I’m really glad I did! So, YES, put some responsibility & liability on the parents!

Respect - Values - Morals - Ethics - Conscience - Accountability - Responsibility - etc.

Back to Basics (comes to mind)

Almost forgot to use the word “gun” in this post...just did.

 

[jerrydecoy]

I very very clearly said that it’s not a bad idea to have an armed cop there, but to think of it as the solution or as a way to prevent people from attempting these actions is not sensible. It is effective in the situation described above-very different than a guy with an AR spraying bullets.

Until the USA gets their healthcare sorted and can actually provide mental health services for its people this is not gonna stop. You guys should be choked that the guy who promised to fix health care on day 1 has conveniently forgotten about it lately...

Getting back to the premise of this thread, Donny’s ideas aren’t gonna do anything. He will spout off a bunch of stuff about arming teachers and background checks while he keeps sucking the NRA’s d!ck, and pretty soon it’ll all get swept under the rug for the next issue.

How is it different??? The AR is a semi auto... period!!! It shoots no faster then any other semi! A glock and a couple clips can do the same damage!!! You sound like these kids who just last week were eating Tide pods and this week they’re gun experts! I’m still too busy choking on what Obama did to healthcare to worry about what trump is doing. Thanks for being a concerned Canadian though!!!! You’re delusional if You actually think that Any mental healthcare change is gonna completely fix the problem! While I ageee it needs help... it’s not a fix all for the shooting problems we have!

 

[Dobber1]

The problem is not the gun it's the kids What, has changed with them? Video games? better bullies? bad parents that do not discipline there kids. Parents that do not let the teacher discipline there kids. participation trophy, no one is loser.
When I was in high school most to the trucks in the parking lot had a gun in the back window. No one would have thought it be OK to shoot up the school.

I was typing as you posted, but we seem to agree on a lot of things...

 

[Mafesto]

FINALLY! Both of you have said something I’ve been thinking about since before this past tragedy. It doesn’t really surprise me that more people aren’t suggesting this? It’s easier to let your kids go try to be somebody on the steps at the capitol, than to explain that some parents, shouldn’t have been.

I don’t even know where to begin? I guess just some random thoughts...

Maybe a little background...I grew up in “Mayberry” & had “June & Ward Cleaver” as parents. Middle child of 3 with a stay at home mother, single car family until the late 70s, father with a profession, perfect attendance at Sunday School during pre-teen years & punished when deserved. Mowed lawns & shoveled snow to earn money for entertainment, bikes, etc. before getting W-2 jobs to purchase car & motorcycles in high school.

Anyway...I know there’s a fine line between abuse & discipline, but once it became a crime to give a little attitude adjustment, especially in public, things seemed to go downhill from there. The lack of respect seems to be the biggest problem. Taking discipline out of the schools is another. You either respected teachers or wish you had once the principal said to assume the position. Then, you had to deal with what was going to get your attention when you got home from school.

Is it true 40-50% of all marriages end in divorce & even higher percentage for subsequent marriages? If so, that can’t be helping the children involved IMO.

When l was a teen, most kids had minimum wage service jobs. Now days, seems like very few do because they don’t have time as parents are taking them on 300 mile trips every weekend to play in some kind of “club sport” tournament. That’s the only way to make sure they’ll make the high school team, so they’re told. Then there’s the youth programs that don’t even keep score. SMH... If you don’t want to get beat, get better!

You always hear parents say they “need to go pick up their child from practice”, but rarely hear them say, “pick them up from work”.

Remember, taking your turn in elementary class holding the flag for the Pledge of Allegiance? Does that still happen?

Very few people pull off to the side of the road & stop to honor a funeral procession or for emergency vehicles.

IDK? People say “you can’t live in the past”, but I’m really glad I did! So, YES, put some responsibility & liability on the parents!

Respect - Values - Morals - Ethics - Conscience - Accountability - Responsibility - etc.

Back to Basics (comes to mind)

Almost forgot to use the word “gun” in this post...just did.

Best post I've read in a LONG time!
Thanks for posting it.

 

[Mafesto]

Seems fitting.

 

[Mafesto]

Yep, you bet. Semiautomatic weapons are the problem, not the people.

 

[Mafesto]

Just think, if only it would have been illegal to go into that school and shoot it up, Nikolas Cruz would be volunteering at nursing homes and shelters.

 

[Vern]

My opinion is the whole participation trophy and everybody wins mentality is the biggest cause of this. Kids are raised never knowing disappointment is a thing, then they hit high school/college age and the real world slaps them in the face and they're not the center of the universe any more but they have no idea how to handle it.

 

[James T Kirk]

How is it different??? The AR is a semi auto... period!!! It shoots no faster then any other semi! A glock and a couple clips can do the same damage!!! You sound like these kids who just last week were eating Tide pods and this week they’re gun experts! I’m still too busy choking on what Obama did to healthcare to worry about what trump is doing. Thanks for being a concerned Canadian though!!!! You’re delusional if You actually think that Any mental healthcare change is gonna completely fix the problem! While I ageee it needs help... it’s not a fix all for the shooting problems we have!

How is it different? The guy in your story had NOT started shooting yet. Of course they are going to directly engage in that situation.

 

[James T Kirk]

What an amazing example that Fat Nixon is setting for all the kids AND young parents out there. I mean he is such a glowing beacon of personal responsibility, never blames others for his mistakes and ALWAYS tells the truth... I sure hope everyone follows his examples, that’ll suuuuuuure help accomplish your goals...


Again, getting back to the premise of this thread, none of the ideas being pushed by the Mango messiah are gonna do a damm thing to stop these shootings. But if there isn’t one for a couple weeks he will claim full responsibility, and when one does happen he will blame Hillary.

 

[jerrydecoy]

How is it different? The guy in your story had NOT started shooting yet. Of course they are going to directly engage in that situation.

I never used the word “prevent”! I merely said maybe it’ll save lives. I quoted you because of the “spray” comment... it made me laugh! Maybe your right and trump will do nothing just as many have done nothing before him. I think he will! I don’t have any idea what that’ll be and I’m sure it won’t completely fix things but surely something will be better then nothing!

 

[jerrydecoy]

What an amazing example that Fat Nixon is setting for all the kids AND young parents out there. I mean he is such a glowing beacon of personal responsibility, never blames others for his mistakes and ALWAYS tells the truth... I sure hope everyone follows his examples, that’ll suuuuuuure help accomplish your goals...


Again, getting back to the premise of this thread, none of the ideas being pushed by the Mango messiah are gonna do a damm thing to stop these shootings. But if there isn’t one for a couple weeks he will claim full responsibility, and when one does happen he will blame Hillary.

Give an immediate viable solution for the USA to stop this violence. You bitch, bitch , bitch and try and come up with your cornball names for trump on a weekly basis and that’s about it! Trump won’t do this, trumps already failed... blah blah blah!!! Give the answers so we can all be as smart as you!!!

 

[Jaynelson]

Give an immediate viable solution for the USA to stop this violence.

Canada (and many other countries) have much stricter gun laws, better mental health support and less of a violence culture. And it seems to work well with regard to school/mass shootings....not 100%, but definitely having less incidents than U.S. Seems viable to me, because we're living it.

I agree that guards and more armed people in schools is "something." If the only alternative to that is "nothing," and you have people wanting to do it, might as try....I get that. My major issue with that program, is that (to me) you are further reinforcing violence culture...shoot your way out of a problem you shot yourself in to. I think it's more of a knee jerk, rather than laying ground work for a better solution. But like I say...if that's all that is offered, might as well take it because whatever is in place currently suuuuucks...that much we know.

 

[Mafesto]

You bitch, bitch , bitch and try and come up with your cornball names for trump on a weekly basis and that’s about it!

The name calling it a telltale sign of immaturity.
I hate to say that because I sometimes stoop to that level as well.
But yes, when jtk starts thread with his cute little namecalling, I automatically stop reading and move on to the next post.

It's as if he's saying "I can't think of anything worthwhile to add, but here's another nick name for our great President Trump"

 

[jerrydecoy]

Canada (and many other countries) have much stricter gun laws, better mental health support and less of a violence culture. And it seems to work well with regard to school/mass shootings....not 100%, but definitely having less incidents than U.S. Seems viable to me, because we're living it.

I agree that guards and more armed people in schools is "something." If the only alternative to that is "nothing," and you have people wanting to do it, might as try....I get that. My major issue with that program, is that (to me) you are further reinforcing violence culture...shoot your way out of a problem you shot yourself in to. I think it's more of a knee jerk, rather than laying ground work for a better solution. But like I say...if that's all that is offered, might as well take it because whatever is in place currently suuuuucks...that much we know.

Adoption of anything similar to Canada’s gun laws is not a realistic option in the USA. We both know that... it’s a pipe dream!!! Background checks have plenty of room for improvement and as you state mental health as well! I’m okay with those as long as the gun owner is not bearing more then their fair share of the cost. I believe you and others have said that more guns is not going to help because it’s not the root of the problem. Is mental health really the root??? Were most of these people born crazy or does it start at home? I lean towards the latter! Improve background checks all you want and pump millions into mental health and I still think you need more guns to defend against this. I don’t believe all of those together or any one of them will completely stop the mass shootings but it’d be a good start!!!

 

[jerrydecoy]

The name calling it a telltale sign of immaturity.
I hate to say that because I sometimes stoop to that level as well.
But yes, when jtk starts thread with his cute little namecalling, I automatically stop reading and move on to the next post.

It's as if he's saying "I can't think of anything worthwhile to add, but here's another nick name for our great President Trump"

I’m guilty at times as well and it really takes away from the debate when it becomes personal!!!