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Water to air intercooler......... Closed loop

Why are some peeps running the sleds cooling system through the water /air cooler rather the a separate/Divorced system?
The separate (closed loop), with a heat exchanger under your tunnel would cool your charged air much better, no?
I can't see it being a "too cold" issue?
Maybe to much fluctuation in charged temps for the fuel box to keep up?
Maybe more consistent temps with using your engine cooling system?
Doesn't make sense to me. The engine coolant runs pretty damm hot to be cooling your charged air, no?

I personaly think the main reason to use engine coolant return is so that there is no additional electrical bs with an additional pump. This may be incorrect, please correct me if I am wrong guys. You would then need a larger cooler at the back of the tunnel to cool coolant more. But this custom water pump in a few eairlier posts has me intriged to do a seperate cooler now. I would agree that a closed system will produce cooler charge temps overall obviously depending on what size and type of exchanger you make or use. :tea:
 
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Why are some peeps running the sleds cooling system through the water /air cooler rather the a separate/Divorced system?
The separate (closed loop), with a heat exchanger under your tunnel would cool your charged air much better, no?
I can't see it being a "too cold" issue?
Maybe to much fluctuation in charged temps for the fuel box to keep up?
Maybe more consistent temps with using your engine cooling system?
Doesn't make sense to me. The engine coolant runs pretty damm hot to be cooling your charged air, no?

I think they use the existing system for the easiest route to plumb in the a/w cooler. No extra cooler or lines that need to be run down the tunnel. No seperate pump etc.
I think this system is using seperate cooling system, but a manual pump that runs off the motor. (IE- not electric)
I dont even see how it would ever be too cool, exspecially since the coolant will not freeze.
Main reason I thought about running the stock cooling system into a/w is because my temps would rarely get above 160 on good days. But warmer spring riding change that and those warmer days is when you want colder air coming in.
 
I work with hot water heat systems and on demand water heaters quite a bit, the key to good transfer of energy is piping that doesn't hold a large volume of water along with good pipe surface area. If I were to make a custom exchanger I would use 3/8 O.D. soft copper and make loops that go above track from front of tunnel all the way back to factory cooler. I would then t drill into the side of 1/2 L I.D. copper and braze all 3/8 loops into it. There would be a feed and return to exchanger. You would want enough loops so that the inside volume of the 3/8 O.D. soft copper combined would at least add up to the 1/2 L I.D. volume so not to constrict over all flow of the system. But I would jam as many loops as humanly possible in tunnel so the coolant or whatever you want to use will be as cold as possible going to inner-cooler . The reason I asked about flow amount is because with copper you can actually wear the pipe out from the inside if flow goes over 10ft per second. This usually happens in say like hotels if the water mains are undersized with a lot of water usage. Just my thoughts, take from it what you will.:face-icon-small-win



I really like the idea of using copper, I know some high end marine chillers for root blowers are made from copper. It would be difficult to get the surface area out of it unless you ran a bit of piping. I looked for a bit and could not find a copper extrusions that would work. The material is out there somewhere i am sure.
 
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I really like the idea of using copper, I know some high end marine chillers for root blowers are made from copper. It would be difficult to get the surface area out of it unless you ran a bit of piping. I looked for a bit and could not find a copper extrusions that would work. The material is out there somewhere i am sure.

The copper I was speaking of the is just L copper and that is just the thickness of it, not a special type or anything. I m a plumber by trade and just work with it every day so that's what came to mind at first when I thought of making a large exchanger. I think it would be very effective, effecient, not overlypricy, and easy to make. Many loops of small 3/8 is going to have good energy transfer. Im sure there is many other ways to make one, just a thought at this point.
 
rusty- are you referring to the flex copper, or the solid copper and solder all the joints? Also wonder how it will take the rocks and track hitting it once and awhile. The setup I bought has a flat cooler just like the stock rear cooler on the m-sleds.
I also was thinking of trying to use my stock front cooler that is built into the bulkhead just for the a/w.
 
rusty- are you referring to the flex copper, or the solid copper and solder all the joints? Also wonder how it will take the rocks and track hitting it once and awhile. The setup I bought has a flat cooler just like the stock rear cooler on the m-sleds.
I also was thinking of trying to use my stock front cooler that is built into the bulkhead just for the a/w.

This is just merely an example:

If I built an exchanger for a snow machine I would make all lines very straight with exact bends.

I had a customer ask me to get their in floor heat hooked up to their wood furnace about a month ago and I made this exchanger to extract heat out of it. This furnace was not designed from the factory to incorporate any sort of an exchanger, so it was a PITA! Mostly due to tight working conditions. Started with 3/4 copper and t-drilled into side and capped at each end. Made several loops of 3/8, ended up with about 50ft total inside. When a good hot fire was going coolant going in was about 80 degrees (return from floor) and 130 degrees coming right out of wood furnace (supply to floor).

If a guy were to make a cooler using similar principle of the one in the pics it should work very well. There is a 13'' by 60'' rectangle of room between the two coolers which run all the way down tunnel, then from front bulk head cooler to back cooler on a 162'' m. I estimated tonight looking under mine (skid is out) that I could fit 8-9 loops (about 9-10 ft per loop) above the track. Cooler would be really low pro, only about a total of a 1/2'' tall. This would include sections of flattened out 1/2'' I.D. copper that would be brazed to all 3/8 O.D. running perpendicular to them. You would drill through these flattened pieces and rivet the whole exchanger in the tunnel as one piece. So all in all a guy could have from roughly 72-90ft of exposed exchanger above track in tunnel! There is really no way this would not produce super cold liquid temps right before inner cooler. The only times the loops would be perpendicular to track would be at very front right close to front cooler, there is a decent void there anyway when track goes around drivers, and at very rear just in front of factory rear cooler, there is always a big gap due to tunnel tipping up after rear suspension drop brackets. It is lower pro than factory coolers anyway. Copper should be more resilient than factory aluminum coolers too, copper can dent quite a ways before it will split, if a rock or something hit it, unlike aluminum. If a loop got smashed flat for some reason coolant would still have many others to flow through. Everything would need to be brazed, not soldered. I am talking about soft copper (comes in a roll of 60-100ft usually), not straight sticks of 10-20ft.

Snowest seams to have a problem with getting images uploaded tonight so I will try editing this post tomorrow and put the pic of the wood furnace exchanger up, it will help you see kind of what I'm talking about.

:tea:

wood furnace coil 2.jpg wood furnace coil.jpg
 
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pumps

I am running a closed loop system on my intercooler. It is a very simple system with a billet water pump, a 500 snopro heat exchanger all race style AN fittings and hoses. I believe it will be just fine with the exchanger I have. anyhow here are more pic's. I did also get a price for these pumps. The pump kit will be $590.00. remember the more I order the less expensive they will be.

Cheers:tea:

mis pics 420.jpg mis pics 432.jpg mis pics 438.jpg mis pics 372.jpg
 
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I hate to tell this, but when you make your own billet water pump and custom build a exchanger it can no longer be classified as simple.

By the way it look like a nice clean setup.

Are you running a single throttle body and a manifold type intake.
 
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I am running a closed loop system on my intercooler. It is a very simple system with a billet water pump, a 500 snopro heat exchanger all race style AN fittings and hoses. I believe it will be just fine with the exchanger I have. anyhow here are more pic's. I did also get a price for these pumps. The pump kit will be $590.00. remember the more I order the less expensive they will be.

Cheers:tea:

I honestly think your exchanger might be too small. Talking allot with Brad Story (the first person to use water to air on a sled) he said with all the testing and R & D he has done the only way you can get away with a smaller exchanger is putting it in the very back of the tunnel. If you are putting it in front of the stock exchanger it needs to be significantly larger. here is a pic of my heat exchanger that he fabricated. I am running the same IC as you and with my exchanger and electric pump the cold side of my IC is always ICE COLD. your set up is looking killer BTW

image.jpg

image (2).jpg
 
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I am running a closed loop system on my intercooler. It is a very simple system with a billet water pump, a 500 snopro heat exchanger all race style AN fittings and hoses. I believe it will be just fine with the exchanger I have. anyhow here are more pic's. I did also get a price for these pumps. The pump kit will be $590.00. remember the more I order the less expensive they will be.

Cheers:tea:

Looks like you have temp sensors on each side of inner-cooler? Looks just like egt probes, what setup is that?:tea:
 
Have you had a chance to run the sled much, I see you have a temp sensor in your intercooler, was wondering what temp rise you see on a long pull.

Man that is some nice clean work and a well thought layout!
 
I honestly think your exchanger might be too small. Talking allot with Brad Story (the first person to use water to air on a sled) he said with all the testing and R & D he has done the only way you can get away with a smaller exchanger is putting it in the very back of the tunnel. If you are putting it in front of the stock exchanger it needs to be significantly larger. here is a pic of my heat exchanger that he fabricated. I am running the same IC as you and with my exchanger and electric pump the cold side of my IC is always ICE COLD. your set up is looking killer BTW

View attachment 158897

View attachment 158898[/QUOTE

What size track you running? if its less than a 3'', do you think you could clear the 3'' with extra cooler above track?
 
I honestly think your exchanger might be too small. Talking allot with Brad Story (the first person to use water to air on a sled) he said with all the testing and R & D he has done the only way you can get away with a smaller exchanger is putting it in the very back of the tunnel. If you are putting it in front of the stock exchanger it needs to be significantly larger. here is a pic of my heat exchanger that he fabricated. I am running the same IC as you and with my exchanger and electric pump the cold side of my IC is always ICE COLD. your set up is looking killer BTW

View attachment 158897

View attachment 158898[/QUOTE

What size track you running? if its less than a 3'', do you think you could clear the 3'' with extra cooler above track?

I am running a 2.5 camo extreme. I *think* a 3 inch would clear but I have never measured or tried it. I would LOVE run a 3 inch...
 
I am running a 2.5 camo extreme. I *think* a 3 inch would clear but I have never measured or tried it. I would LOVE run a 3 inch...

If you could take a measurement let me know, I'm going to be finishing cutting down my 3'' CE today, still waiting for my raptors for my kmod so I won't be-able to see If I can clear my 3'' with a cooler above it for awhile :face-icon-small-dis
 
pump

I am running a 2.5 162 CE but when I laid out the tunnel I made room for a 3" but I thought I would wait til they make a 15" wide so I wont have to cut it down. I have probes every wear on this thing! I do have one on each the water side and the air side but haven't got a chance to run it but about 6 miles or so in a field. If my exchanger is to small then I will build one bigger but as of for now I'm gonna have to run what I got.
I do have a single throttle body manifold that I build also. If your interested lets talk. It makes everything easier and you don't have to worry about blow offs and YES I do have it submitted for patents.

Cheers:tea:
 
I am running a closed loop system on my intercooler. It is a very simple system with a billet water pump, a 500 snopro heat exchanger all race style AN fittings and hoses. I believe it will be just fine with the exchanger I have. anyhow here are more pic's. I did also get a price for these pumps. The pump kit will be $590.00. remember the more I order the less expensive they will be.

Cheers:tea:
VERY NICE
 
pump

Well the kit consists of the pump, all fasteners and seals to install, Qty2 1/2" AN style right angle fittings, and Qty2 1/2" AN to 1/2" straight barb fittings and installation instructions.

Cheers:tea:
 
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