I have read alot of posts about how much power a turbo can make. I have also heard that Carls Cycle makes and awesome kit for the Pro. if a guy was going to buy one or the other whats the best option? and is there a big power and price difference? any info would be great
Turbo VS. Carls Cycle big bore
- Thread starter 73tmeyer
- Start date
I'll let ya know at the end of the season, I'm doing the turbo pro and my good riding buddie is doing the 900 carls pro....so we shall see.
I will say that our last set of sleds, turbo dragon and carls 860 dragon, it was actually kind of a toss up as to what combo is better, depends a lot on your riding style and what you like in a powerband. There really is no "best" in this case. Both sleds worked very very well. I will say however that the 860 required ZERO tuning, it was spot on after we got it,no problems,no adjustments,just like a pull and go stock sled with lots more HP, the turbo does make more power but it did require 3-4 rides to get it dialed in. The 860/900 's power is fixed at around 190-200 (aprox) on a 25%+ mix of race fuel to 91, turbo ya can get more power but again more race gas....ALL turbo setups have some lag, period, the n/a you can enguage at 3000 and it just flat goes hard. turbo figure 4000 to remove most all lag. So again its a toss up. If you want to be the highmark i'd go with the turbo, if you want a great all around motor that acts like stock on steroids go with the 900 deal. Just a note my mod sled slp race 903,210 hp will run dead even with my friends dragon set at 12 lbs. ( and yes we have raced them a LOT) but he can turn his up and the 903 is set at its power. Also the turbo deal can be turned down to run pump fuel at anytime, a big bonus in my book, race gas gets old quick. IMHO
I will say that our last set of sleds, turbo dragon and carls 860 dragon, it was actually kind of a toss up as to what combo is better, depends a lot on your riding style and what you like in a powerband. There really is no "best" in this case. Both sleds worked very very well. I will say however that the 860 required ZERO tuning, it was spot on after we got it,no problems,no adjustments,just like a pull and go stock sled with lots more HP, the turbo does make more power but it did require 3-4 rides to get it dialed in. The 860/900 's power is fixed at around 190-200 (aprox) on a 25%+ mix of race fuel to 91, turbo ya can get more power but again more race gas....ALL turbo setups have some lag, period, the n/a you can enguage at 3000 and it just flat goes hard. turbo figure 4000 to remove most all lag. So again its a toss up. If you want to be the highmark i'd go with the turbo, if you want a great all around motor that acts like stock on steroids go with the 900 deal. Just a note my mod sled slp race 903,210 hp will run dead even with my friends dragon set at 12 lbs. ( and yes we have raced them a LOT) but he can turn his up and the 903 is set at its power. Also the turbo deal can be turned down to run pump fuel at anytime, a big bonus in my book, race gas gets old quick. IMHO
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Hmm...
Heard Carls was gonna drop their 900 kit. To small case, cant get it to flow enough to make power and justify the price.
Curt at FTX will tell you they tried a 854 kit but even that was to big. The monoblock cyls also places restrictions on porting for good power.
I would call Carls to verify if it's even coming out.
RS
Heard Carls was gonna drop their 900 kit. To small case, cant get it to flow enough to make power and justify the price.
Curt at FTX will tell you they tried a 854 kit but even that was to big. The monoblock cyls also places restrictions on porting for good power.
I would call Carls to verify if it's even coming out.
RS
thanks for the help
i really dont like the idea of having to run race gas. but i would like the most turn key power i can get. do you know what brand of turbo it the most turn key out of the box. i have been leaning toward Silber, i am totally new to the turbo scene and dont want to spend all year tuning. in your experience does a turbo take a big toll on engine life? and you will have to let me know what you find out at the end of the season
i really dont like the idea of having to run race gas. but i would like the most turn key power i can get. do you know what brand of turbo it the most turn key out of the box. i have been leaning toward Silber, i am totally new to the turbo scene and dont want to spend all year tuning. in your experience does a turbo take a big toll on engine life? and you will have to let me know what you find out at the end of the season
S
SSWIM
Well-known member
I believe elevation would be a very pivotal factor. If you are riding 3000-4000' and below it would be a tough call. I am sure the NA sled with the Carls 900 kit would run really close as 2XM3 has posted. Elevation just flat kills power. We start our rides at 10000' and go to 13000'. While I have no experience with the sleds that have Carls 900 kits in them, I would imagine the Carls 900 sled would be very hard pressed to perform as well as a Pro with 12Lbs. of boost. At our elevation.
With that said, it will be very intersting to see the results of 2XM3 comparisons. BTW, what elevations do you usually ride 2XM3???
Sam
With that said, it will be very intersting to see the results of 2XM3 comparisons. BTW, what elevations do you usually ride 2XM3???
Sam
6000' to 10,000 and yeah the old turbo needs quite a few twists on the screw to make 12lbs at elevation. n/a of course drops a whole bunch up there. we hillclimed a bit at 8500 and turbo dragon at 7 lbs ran about even with my 903 12lbs it out pulled the 903
i should have stated that the drags were at 5000' btw 12lb is neck and neck.
i should have stated that the drags were at 5000' btw 12lb is neck and neck.
S
suitcase
Well-known member
The 9 will be a fact this season. as 2xm3 stated.
I have Jacks big bore 860, worth every penny. The coast of the big bore vs. turbo, is real close to the same. Im on the list for the 9 in my pro, when everything is complete and Jack turns them lose. The big bore that they produce is 100 % user friendly and is a true gas and go sled with lots of HP and lots of tourge. I have had zero issues with the 860 in 2100 hard Mt. miles, and know the 900 will be no diffrent. if you like to just ride and not wrench stick with the big bore. Everyone knows that a boosted engine will produce more, but you need a much longer distance to build the power, over the big bore, with Jacks big bore its there at anytime you ask for it. (I am comparing pump gas turbo's 10lbs. or less) . You can have the big bore maped to run race fuel or have it maped to run pump gas, it is up to you.
Also depends on where you ride and where you spend most of your time, trees, chutes? everything has it place. Don't underestimate Jacks Big bore kits..
I have Jacks big bore 860, worth every penny. The coast of the big bore vs. turbo, is real close to the same. Im on the list for the 9 in my pro, when everything is complete and Jack turns them lose. The big bore that they produce is 100 % user friendly and is a true gas and go sled with lots of HP and lots of tourge. I have had zero issues with the 860 in 2100 hard Mt. miles, and know the 900 will be no diffrent. if you like to just ride and not wrench stick with the big bore. Everyone knows that a boosted engine will produce more, but you need a much longer distance to build the power, over the big bore, with Jacks big bore its there at anytime you ask for it. (I am comparing pump gas turbo's 10lbs. or less) . You can have the big bore maped to run race fuel or have it maped to run pump gas, it is up to you.
Also depends on where you ride and where you spend most of your time, trees, chutes? everything has it place. Don't underestimate Jacks Big bore kits..
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Jack said they are going to continue to develop the big bore kit 900 and be certain that it is absolutely up the Carl's Cycle Sales standard of excellence prior to a public release.
IMO 2xm3's post is very accurate and similar to my experiences on such things and comparables.
73tmeyer...If I was a salesman of both products and you came to me with your statements and concerns while I'm trying to fact find with the primary goal to put you into the best product for your circumstances turbo would not be the answer.
IMO 2xm3's post is very accurate and similar to my experiences on such things and comparables.
73tmeyer...If I was a salesman of both products and you came to me with your statements and concerns while I'm trying to fact find with the primary goal to put you into the best product for your circumstances turbo would not be the answer.
guys you have all been a great help. i was leaning toward the turbo but now i think big bore might be the way to go. i live in WI but do almost all of my riding at 8000-10000. i do from time to time run my Pro around here, so could i still do that or not with at big bore? also the new turbo kits claim they are turn key is this not the case? also how would that work with the big bore would i just send it to Carls cycle?
S
suitcase
Well-known member
You can buy the parts and do it yourself, but if it was me I would have carl's do it if at all possible, they know these sleds inside and out then there is no question on the performance. Jack is hopeing to have the 900 ready for us sometime around the first of the yr. they need a little more time on the mapping and a few other important details, for another solid motor from Jack and the rest of the guys at carl's. Give Chris a call in the perfomance department he is super helpfull and has some good info and insight on the turbo's vs. the big bores.
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I ran a good/properly running PSI 995 in a light chassis for years and just last year went to a turbo Dragon. All I can say is fun, fun, fun! The turbo doesn't have the grunt and low end snap, but everything else is better. I run straight 100ll at 13lbs at 5-6k feet.
73tmeyer tell us a bit more about your personal circumstance. Have you ridden your PRO all of last season. What have you done to it performance wise? What did you think you needed as more sled and in what circumstances?
Maybe you can get your sled improved to the point that it will be super enjoyable until there are better proven performance options down the road a bit.
Maybe you can get your sled improved to the point that it will be super enjoyable until there are better proven performance options down the road a bit.
I would agree, I think the pro with the slp stage 4 kit at +20 odd HP and spot on clutching would go just about anywhere 99% of riders would go. And actually unless you are a very good rider the extra power will NOT make you a better rider, actually will hurt your learning curve. IMHO Ask your self this one, "off trail I have the throttle pinned what percent of my riding?" Having ridden many different sleds I have come to like nice smooth totally controlable power for 99% of my riding.
yes i rode my pro all last season it was totally stock. i liked the way it felt but want more power. i have 2 riding buddies that have d8's with: tied clutch, pipe, head, reeds, programer etc. really liked how they felt but want more power. now one of them bought a pro and is putting all the same things on it... and i want to beat it hands down...plus i dont think to much power is ever a bad thing! but i dont want to spend all my time tuning either since i only get a limited time in the mtns since i live in WI (for now)
i have heard many good things about the SLP kit also, maybe i might just go that route. the turbo might be over kill when not highmarking thanks everybody for all the info it has been ALOT of help!!!
Alright, if the 900 kit comes out from Carls I believe and hope it will be a screamer. And you can base your faith in what people say about the power of their 860 kits for the Dragons. Same engine, pretty much, paired with the pro chassi.
Me, I'm going with SLP pipe, reeds, porting (case + syls), head and proper tuning of clutches and fuel system.
Also, I sent my shocks to Curt at FTX for some tweaking.
If you go to the skies when riding, consider if a turbo is for you with its quirks and demands. Lots have happened the last years!
If you rome the sea-level, go "my way" or shop at Carls.
Either way, make sure it's proven and will let you ride all winter!!!
Rune,
Norway
Me, I'm going with SLP pipe, reeds, porting (case + syls), head and proper tuning of clutches and fuel system.
Also, I sent my shocks to Curt at FTX for some tweaking.
If you go to the skies when riding, consider if a turbo is for you with its quirks and demands. Lots have happened the last years!
If you rome the sea-level, go "my way" or shop at Carls.
Either way, make sure it's proven and will let you ride all winter!!!
Rune,
Norway
S
suitcase
Well-known member
One more why to think about it is if you have a Turbo, you have a whole other set of parts that can cause you problems, boost tubes, boxes turbo itself. With just a motor, wheather it is a big bore or not, you have a lot less things that can go wrong and upset you day of fun.
2xm3 has a very good point 99% of us don't and can't ride a sled wide open in a tech. Area such as we see a couple of our top riders do. There for, if you can't just Point and shoot as they say, a boosted sled is a waste IMHO.
Now for a fun toy to have so you can out high mark your buddies well that is great, But I would rather just out ride them. LOL
I have tosted this same idea around for many yrs. Turbo, big bore, stock mods, turbo big bore, stock mods ahhhhh!! I have came to value Carl's performace big bores for sound rideability and no wreching. As far as performance I can ride right with, or beyond 99% of the riders I have come across.
I have road the pro with the head and porting set up, and with the new pro and these tweaks well it makes the dragon look sick. I have went with the porting and head on my pro because it is very impresive, that is until the 900 is a complete saleable motor.
I'm by no means implying anything, other than just my own thoughts on this subject. because I have spent so much time in debate on this very thing.
2xm3 has a very good point 99% of us don't and can't ride a sled wide open in a tech. Area such as we see a couple of our top riders do. There for, if you can't just Point and shoot as they say, a boosted sled is a waste IMHO.
Now for a fun toy to have so you can out high mark your buddies well that is great, But I would rather just out ride them. LOL
I have tosted this same idea around for many yrs. Turbo, big bore, stock mods, turbo big bore, stock mods ahhhhh!! I have came to value Carl's performace big bores for sound rideability and no wreching. As far as performance I can ride right with, or beyond 99% of the riders I have come across.
I have road the pro with the head and porting set up, and with the new pro and these tweaks well it makes the dragon look sick. I have went with the porting and head on my pro because it is very impresive, that is until the 900 is a complete saleable motor.
I'm by no means implying anything, other than just my own thoughts on this subject. because I have spent so much time in debate on this very thing.
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