Turbo Clutching Update

[CHAZWILDMAN]

Team Tied

Has any body ran the team tied clutch with any success? And would like to know opinions on the MDS clutch weights, efifency and overall performance. Thanks Chaz.

 

[sledhead9825]

I don't know for sure but I don't think these guys have the external gate which changes every thing as you know internal and external do not compare

At 8LBS internal or external wastegate makes very little, if any difference at WOT and 8250 RPM

 

[CHAZWILDMAN]

Has any body ran the team tied clutch with any success? And would like to know opinions on the MDS clutch weights, efifency and overall performance. Thanks Chaz.

Any updates on your clutch set ups 8000-10,000 ft?

 

[CHAZWILDMAN]

Breaker Breaker!!!! anybody out there? Come back good buddy!!!!

 

[2XM3]

ttt

 

[briand]

Thought I would bring this post back. Very good info on here. Has anyone did more refinements to there clutching? any improvements? Does anyone have any good team tied setups there willing to share?
This is my setup so far with mds weights.

Team tied
10 # boost BD turbo External wastegate
63* helix straight
160 - 260 black white team secondary spring with 2 derlin washers
120 -340 black green primary. Engagement about 4100.
MDS weights 63.3 base black short bolt with one washer in mid and outer hole 4 + 4 grams Total 71.3 grams. 8450 - 8500 rpm This is where my motor pulls the best with the RKtec dropin kit installed.

Very hard to get a decent answer with the snow conditions we have during testing here. still debating.
Feb 21 test ended. Well this setup didn't work very good seem to have a lazy shift pattern. on to the next test.

 

[briand]

Next test is going to be as follows

10# boost
primary
120-340 black green
MDS weights 75.6 5.1 plate 4 grams mid 3.2 tip.
Not sure about the weights here but this is my starting point.

Secondary
Team tied 63* straight
Black lime green 180-300 spring 1 derlin
1.9 gear ratio.
We will see how this goes.

 

[TRS]

Why do all the turbo boys insist on running so much spring pressure in the secondary? Is it to limit the track speed? I rode another reputable builder turbo setup today that hits a speed wall. That wall comes from to much helix angle coupled with big spring pressure.
Edit:
Speed wall and hits rev limit

 

[Spaarky]

I like my set up Tony.

 

[fredw]

1.9 gear ratio.. That sounds pretty high.. Good for 100mph?

Next test is going to be as follows

10# boost
primary
120-340 black green
MDS weights 75.6 5.1 plate 4 grams mid 3.2 tip.
Not sure about the weights here but this is my starting point.

Secondary
Team tied 63* straight
Black lime green 180-300 spring 1 derlin
1.9 gear ratio.
We will see how this goes.

 

[briand]

Why do all the turbo boys insist on running so much spring pressure in the secondary? Is it to limit the track speed? I rode another reputable builder turbo setup today that hits a speed wall. That wall comes from to much helix angle coupled with big spring pressure.
Edit:
Speed wall and hits rev limit

Hey Tony Can you describe the speed wall? I'm not hitting rev limiter but do hit some kind of Barrier. Was hoping that going to a higher spring rate and weight increas would help with this. Maybe wrong train of thought.

 

[TRS]

Hey Tony Can you describe the speed wall? I'm not hitting rev limiter but do hit some kind of Barrier. Was hoping that going to a higher spring rate and weight increas would help with this. Maybe wrong train of thought.

Higher spring rates will hold RPM in return limits upshift. Limiting upshift increases RPM and limits track speed. I am running a 140-220 secondary spring in my turbo with 74.6g weights 165-310 primary and it has long legs. Works boondocking, hill climbing, on the trail. 8-9# boost at 8-10,000'. In my stock Pro I am running a 100-150 secondary spring 59g weights with a 110-290 primary. Same helix in both, 46-32F- 46-34F.

 

[briand]

Higher spring rates will hold RPM in return limits upshift. Limiting upshift increases RPM and limits track speed. I am running a 140-220 secondary spring in my turbo with 74.6g weights 165-310 primary and it has long legs. Works boondocking, hill climbing, on the trail. 8-9# boost at 8-10,000'. In my stock Pro I am running a 100-150 secondary spring 59g weights with a 110-290 primary. Same helix in both, 46-32F- 46-34F.

Thanks Tony. I have tried lower helix angles in the tied in the past with lower spring rates (57 and 59 degrees with 120 - 220 springs and others) but I found it to back shift to much in the climbs with the turbo. Also with the drop in kit it's a little trickier to get a good shift out pattern and Maintian a good constant 8400-8500 rpm so I needed a little higher end spring rate in primary and secondary area. I think I may go back and try my lower angle helixes with even lighter spring rate see if these help. I have also geared my up to a 1.90 ratio and have not tried this up high yet but down low here found it to pull much harder and longer then before. Belt heat down low here is virtually the same but up high we will see. My line of thinking was gearing it up was the wall, barrier that I was seeing will be moved up higher. Guess il see. Thanks for your input Tony.

 

[TRS]

Thanks Tony. I have tried lower helix angles in the tied in the past with lower spring rates (57 and 59 degrees with 120 - 220 springs and others) but I found it to back shift to much in the climbs with the turbo. Also with the drop in kit it's a little trickier to get a good shift out pattern and Maintian a good constant 8400-8500 rpm so I needed a little higher end spring rate in primary and secondary area. I think I may go back and try my lower angle helixes with even lighter spring rate see if these help. I have also geared my up to a 1.90 ratio and have not tried this up high yet but down low here found it to pull much harder and longer then before. Belt heat down low here is virtually the same but up high we will see. My line of thinking was gearing it up was the wall, barrier that I was seeing will be moved up higher. Guess il see. Thanks for your input Tony.[/

Can you please explain "it back shifts to much".

 

[briand]

When you start out with shallower angle helix I'll get a good start but when you get into the steep it pulls your speed down al lot more then the higher angle helixes while still maintaining Rpms. Going with lighter springs helped but I still could not get it to preform as well with the higher angle helix and heavier spring rate. Now I never went down below 140-240 spring rates and maybe this might have help but I just gave up. Also had higher temps in clutches too. Hope this helps.

 

[briand]

1.9 gear ratio.. That sounds pretty high.. Good for 100mph?

I know it sounds high but I am going with a different line of thinking here. I'm not looking to increase my top end speed but I have a idea that the primary has reach its range of effencincy with the turbo. Belt rides up near the top (1/2 inch) with a max track speed of 62 mph in a climb. Test at home here have shown that I have great acceleration up to about 60-65 mph then starts falling off some. With the 1.90 ratio it pulls harder and further along now till about 70 -72. Don't know if this will help increase track speed but willing to try it and see. This gearing at least I don't think it will be good if you ride tress or boondocking. But hill climbing I think it has a chance at working. We will see.

 

[revrider07]

100 mph is only needed when your buddies goes 99. I know where your going with this I had a big bore that ran better geared up even though I felt I wasn't getting full shift out on clutches. I might be experiencing the same thing you are describing. Seems to get to a speed and not keep increasing even though power is there.

 

[TRS]

I know it sounds high but I am going with a different line of thinking here. I'm not looking to increase my top end speed but I have a idea that the primary has reach its range of effencincy with the turbo. Belt rides up near the top (1/2 inch) with a max track speed of 62 mph in a climb. Test at home here have shown that I have great acceleration up to about 60-65 mph then starts falling off some. With the 1.90 ratio it pulls harder and further along now till about 70 -72. Don't know if this will help increase track speed but willing to try it and see. This gearing at least I don't think it will be good if you ride tress or boondocking. But hill climbing I think it has a chance at working. We will see.

That's your wall, your turbo cannot shift through the spring and helix at that combo.That is why when you geared up your MPH went up. It is shifting to the same place in your secondary.
Food for thought and comparable, is it easier to walk up a 32* slope with 220# on your back or a 62* slope with 300# on your back? On your hike a 32* slope takes longer to gain elevation than a 62* slope but it is sure easier.

 

[briand]

OK Tony you got the best of my curiosity going. i'm Going to give it a try just have to find the angles in the tied to make it comparable to the TSS 04.

 

[TRS]

OK Tony you got the best of my curiosity going. i'm Going to give it a try just have to find the angles in the tied to make it comparable to the TSS 04.

You will need to lighten your flyweights when you get there.
I have posted this before. The best running Turbo Apex I have ever thrown a leg over, you can watch Rock push the secondary open with his thumb. We need a wrench........