Turbo Clutching Update

[2XM3]

Team has them, they will make anything you want....probably stock the 40/50 its gettin really popular.


http://teamaftermarket.com/parts-catalog/snowmobile/all-brands/clutch-tunign-components/

 

[philsummers21]

thanks. i have an email into them about getting a 40-50 and a 40-48.

 

[die hard poo]

Ok so here is an update from my last post:
Tried lower my weights to get my rpm up so I am running now:
74.5g weights, Heel empty, mid 4g, tip 5.5g
Team pink (180/320)
Increased boost to 10# (way fun, no det with 100ll with a splash of 90, 2000 ft, PAR 12.5 head)
42/46/.36 Helix
orange/black spring 180/280

Engagement 4500 rpm
Peak under high load 8100-8200rpm
but under light load it over tacks

I did blow a belt after 200 HARD miles in chest deep and mash potato snow. My secondary was much hotter than my primary, would that 40/50 helix help get my rpm more consistent? Or should I try a stiffer sec spring? I would like to get my rpm to be similar in both chest deep snow and on hard pack. I know it will pull a couple more rpm on hard pack, but I am seeing more like 4-600 more... Thanks for the help!

 

[philsummers21]

Whats everyone getting for track speed? before i was getting 58mph with a 162 Peak.

 

[dyllaboy]

There are a few different ways to make the belts run longer. First off I would try either adding more weight or lowering your boost because even under load you will be spiking rpm sometimes. From just looking at the stock gauge you can't see how much your rpm spikes unless you do a rpm recording and then watching the playback. This is a nice feature the stock gauge has. I am at roughly the same elevation and I'm running the 7psi waste gate with 78.5g of weight loaded in the heel and the orange primary spring. At 75.5g of weight I was over revving at 8600rpm and hitting set light. My belt was also blowing through my secondary clutch and leaving burnt belt on the secondary clutch sheaves. So I would lower boost and add weight and when you hit the deep powder just add some more boost until your rpms are right.

Ok so here is an update from my last post:
Tried lower my weights to get my rpm up so I am running now:
74.5g weights, Heel empty, mid 4g, tip 5.5g
Team pink (180/320)
Increased boost to 10# (way fun, no det with 100ll with a splash of 90, 2000 ft, PAR 12.5 head)
42/46/.36 Helix
orange/black spring 180/280

Engagement 4500 rpm
Peak under high load 8100-8200rpm
but under light load it over tacks

I did blow a belt after 200 HARD miles in chest deep and mash potato snow. My secondary was much hotter than my primary, would that 40/50 helix help get my rpm more consistent? Or should I try a stiffer sec spring? I would like to get my rpm to be similar in both chest deep snow and on hard pack. I know it will pull a couple more rpm on hard pack, but I am seeing more like 4-600 more... Thanks for the help!

 

[2XM3]

Ok so here is an update from my last post:
Tried lower my weights to get my rpm up so I am running now:
74.5g weights, Heel empty, mid 4g, tip 5.5g
Team pink (180/320)
Increased boost to 10# (way fun, no det with 100ll with a splash of 90, 2000 ft, PAR 12.5 head)
42/46/.36 Helix
orange/black spring 180/280

Engagement 4500 rpm
Peak under high load 8100-8200rpm
but under light load it over tacks

I did blow a belt after 200 HARD miles in chest deep and mash potato snow. My secondary was much hotter than my primary, would that 40/50 helix help get my rpm more consistent? Or should I try a stiffer sec spring? I would like to get my rpm to be similar in both chest deep snow and on hard pack. I know it will pull a couple more rpm on hard pack, but I am seeing more like 4-600 more... Thanks for the help!

300 pound or more secondary spring, you need as much side pressure on the belt as possible to keep from slipping....and remember the more angle in the helix the more spring you will need, ie the 50* requires more spring(easier to walk throught it=more spring) and less weight in the primary... we want less primary weight to make the sled have better bottom end responce, but with this comes the need for more split in the secondary spring, ie the 140 ish bottom pressure to allow the motor to get rpm quicker....its a fine balancing act and you have to decide for yourself what you like best, there are many ways to set clutches up and each thing you change changes everyother thing. And the set for 10-12 pounds is not the best for 6 pounds ect ect ect.


oh and 400-600 is no big deal from hard pack to cheat deep powder...you never going to get that the same...on hardpack at 10 psi ill slam the rev limiter all day long if I clutch for 8400 in the soft stuff.

 

[philsummers21]

Where did you find the 145-310 secondary spring 2xm?

 

[2XM3]

here the one i've got in there now , same 310 measured but 167 start

http://teamaftermarket.com/parts-ca...ring-lh-wound-160-300-yellow-black-930700-010


I do use this one as well its true measured pressure is 145-310 with the delrins

http://teamaftermarket.com/parts-ca...ing-lh-wound-140-300-yellow-orange-930700-009

Its a toss up

 

[philsummers21]

Thanks. Now do you have to run the larger spring cup with the titanium springs as well? and 1 or 2 titanium delrins

 

[2XM3]

just the titanium delrins, I never changed the spring cup.

 

[machineman]

Heres my set up. 2011 silber 10# @ 4500-5000 ft 163 peak

Team gold primary 180-345
Engagement about 4000 rpm
76.5 gram roosters 3.5 in heel 7 middle 4 tip
Black orange 180-280
40-48 .36 helix
holds 8150- 8200

Bottom end is soft and back shift is a little slow. Turbo seems a little "pipey"
If I change to a 50* helix go to a black lime 180-300 and lighten the primary
weight ( remove from heel ) do you think that it will help by slightly increasing the engagement as well as improve bottom end aand speed the backshift.

I have 2 other pros 163 with 64 bb weights slp pipe can and head. 155 assault 66 bb weights and a can. These sled rock. The bottom end is way better, backshift better, They are way more fun to ride. I'm almost at the point to bail on the turbo. The extra power is almost not worth what you give up. I think a carls 900 or a par 910 is the ticket.
MM

 

[2XM3]

UMMM boy I dont think going to the 50 would change that much at all for you, Ive never run that much initial primary spring, but you would think it would backshift "right now" with that much spring on both ends. Perhaps try a higher rate secondary spring, 300 or more, in theory it should help backshift more before buying another helix. Id also try as much weight as possible in the tip and middle.
You could also go to the 19-43 gear that would help the bottom as well. Also remember the more boost you run the worse the clutching issues become, ie more weight ect to hold the power on boost = worse low end.

And yes the perfect sled for low end would be the 900 or 910 deal, my mod sled (slp race 903, 200 hp) will leave the turbo for dead on the bottom. Just the nature of the beast.

 

[machineman]

Gearing is 19-42. I forgot to mention that I just moved 3.5 gr from tip to heel (first trip this season) and it seemed to be worse last ride than last year with the weight at the tip.
I will go to my black lime 180-300 and leave the 48 helix. What start angle 40-48 or 44-48
MM

 

[2XM3]

40-48

 

[philsummers21]

Heres my update.

11# 9000ft 8100 on climbs 8300 on the trail

MDS Turbo Weights 74.1 gram
Black/green 120-340
clutch engagement was around 4200

Orange/black 180-280
40-46 .36

19/42 gearing

Went with the black/green per MDS recomendation. LOVE the Turbo weights. thing pulls so much harder. With this setup my secondary is warm at most. barely feel any heat at at all and this was after about 5 hard pulls. primary is luke warm. Bottom end snap seems to be about the same but the on/off throttle was sluggish. Would bog before it picked up. Thinking about trying the 42-48 .36 side of my helix. I also have a 175-305 spring i might throw in and try to run like 72 grams. I also have a 43 tooth bottom gear coming.

 

[whittaker727]

I think you'll like the 42-48. I was reving similar to you and took the solid bolt out of the middle of the weight and left the one in the tip. Spot on 8300 every climb now. One step and one change at a time to see what makes what change and see what you like and what you don't.

 

[philsummers21]

Yah i learned awhile ago to make 1 change at a time. I took my other springs and stuff on the hill today with plans on adjusting and trying on the hill but my kids had other plans. Made me ride some trails

 

[machineman]

my update
11 Sliber
10 # @ 6000'
Gold primary 180-345
76gr moved 3 gr from heel to tip ( 62g, 7g middle 7g tip)
40 48 .36
Black lime 180-300 3 delrins 2 on spring 1 under cup
19-42 gears

Engagement still 4000. Back shift better, still tad slow for me. Tached 7950-8100 at elevation. Was experiencing a slight bog on throttle stabs thus making the bottom soft. Took the yellow all the way to #1 and raised the Yellow-blue to 6 and it ran real crisp. This helped the feel of the bottom a bunch.
I am thinking of pulling 2 grams out (where?) maybe 1 middle 1 tip. Hoping to pick up the rpm a bit, maybe raise the engagement and help the back shift. I am about maxed out on springs so may be running out of ideas.
MM

 

[Catmydoo]

What kind of track speed are you guys seeing?

 

[die hard poo]

my update
11 Sliber
10 # @ 6000'
Gold primary 180-345
76gr moved 3 gr from heel to tip ( 62g, 7g middle 7g tip)
40 48 .36
Black lime 180-300 3 delrins 2 on spring 1 under cup
19-42 gears

Engagement still 4000. Back shift better, still tad slow for me. Tached 7950-8100 at elevation. Was experiencing a slight bog on throttle stabs thus making the bottom soft. Took the yellow all the way to #1 and raised the Yellow-blue to 6 and it ran real crisp. This helped the feel of the bottom a bunch.
I am thinking of pulling 2 grams out (where?) maybe 1 middle 1 tip. Hoping to pick up the rpm a bit, maybe raise the engagement and help the back shift. I am about maxed out on springs so may be running out of ideas.
MM

Pull as much weight out of the heel as possible. This will get your engagement higher.