Turbo 1200 Dyno run

[gus bohne]

John, Notice that not ONE of the posters who shoot at what was just done with the this package are taking into consideration the PUMP ..( engine ).

Does Yamaha as well as the other 4 big japanese engine suppliers have a competitve entry or for that matter an entry period in Formula One.??

This engine and its designers DOO and they are in the front 3 of that disipline.

There are differnet parameters to design and function on boost vs off boost. 4 cylinder 90 degree or 180 dgree phasing DOES NOT produce the same output as said same size cofiguration in a 120 or 60 degree format.

Larger bore sizes as well as the valve sizes, port volumes, angles, bowl depth and shape are all more favorable in an on boost situation. The 4 cylinder is not as good on boost as the triple, it is what it is.

As a for instance.
The OMC v8 outboard vs the OMC v6 . In theory the bigger v8 should outproduce the v6 ,,its bigger, more cylinders, larger port to cylinder bore ratio..should be a winner ??

The 90 180 order of events does NOT come close , the v8 at its best produced just 550 hp.. The v6 had no issue going over 600hp under boost.

This is a good /very good ' first effort so to speak. I relish the idea of getting a chance at going head to head out in your neck of the woods with ANY yamaha 4 cylinder....

It's gonna be a fun year for the 4 stroke DOO crowd. and its still lighter than a ,,,, well you know the brand and model I am elluding tooooo..

LOl



Gus

 

[Original Tetonice]

OT....I knew you couldnt read...and now you proved it again...

205 hp/135 tq @6.5 psi on 87 octane @ 8200-8400 rpm
230 hp/155 tq @ 7.5 psi on 92-94 octane @ 8200-8400 rpm
427 hp/275 tq @ 22 psi on 120 octane @ 8200-8400 rpm

bone stock motors..NO internal work done...see ya at the top...BJ

BJ, I don't really care how many hundreds of HP Doo's 4 banger can dyno (garret, aerocharger and others makes turbo's in a varity of sizes) and Yammi's been doing it since 2003.

Knock Knock, 427hp is unmangable to ride at PERIOD. You wouldn't take your top fuel NHRA dragster out for a 60 mile cruz would you ? Hmmmmm might just go Kaboom at mile marker #4.

PSI is PSI, boost is boost and not all gauges are built alike.....AutoMeter are POS imo.

At 10,000 ft your boost is only effected by it's ability to draw in fresh air. A large K&N pod mounted external is a good idea.

ot

 

[winter brew]

I hope the DOo proves as reliable as the Yami's have been, the ONLY complaint I had with my Apex was the weight....now drop over 100 lbs and have similar power and reliability and you have a heck of a good mountain sled, even with little or no boost.
Anyone ever see what happens to long slide rails at the big power numbers being seen?? Better think about beefing up the back half of the rails on a DOO if you plan on running big power with the stock Doo rails.

 

[NoSecondChances]

....

Knock Knock, 427hp is unmangable to ride at PERIOD. You wouldn't take your top fuel NHRA dragster out for a 60 mile cruz would you ? Hmmmmm might just go Kaboom at mile marker #4....

ot

Don't forget though that they made over 20 passes on the dyno with the stock motor internals. While I do agree with you OT that this is a bit of special sled (as I stated in my first post), but it demonstrates the ability of this motor and the potential for this power plant. While over 400 HP may not be what most consider a "daily driver", factor in that most people will be de-tuning this thing to around 300 HP say (just as a # to throw out there), which is a liveable amount and should be within the realm of "reliable" on this motor (based on what information I have been given). Even 275 HP with a good chassis and good power to weight ratio will be more than enough. The old 1515cc and 527 lbs full of fluids was a very fast sled, no turbo but power to weight is the ultimate goal.

Let's not forget that this is a first attempt too guys, we are trying to compare a first generation, unridden (by the vast majority) motor to a proven (over 5 yr) motor with tons of development time and saying that it may not work. 5 yrs ago, we all said that the Yammies where heavy pigs and they wouldn't work well in the mountains......well, we were wrong once......

Just my opinion.

 

[BIG JOHN]

BJ, I don't really care how many hundreds of HP Doo's 4 banger can dyno (garret, aerocharger and others makes turbo's in a varity of sizes) and Yammi's been doing it since 2003.

BJ- What does that mean?? you dont care it made 427 hp on a stock motor or theres different turbos or yamaha has been been doing since 2003??

Knock Knock, 427hp is unmangable to ride at PERIOD. You wouldn't take your top fuel NHRA dragster out for a 60 mile cruz would you ? Hmmmmm might just go Kaboom at mile marker #4.

BJ- OK..how many 425+ hp TRAIL Apexs are there out on the hill??? (NOS doesnt count...all motor and trailable...)

PSI is PSI, boost is boost and not all gauges are built alike.....AutoMeter are POS imo.

BJ- who said anything about Autometer gauges??

At 10,000 ft your boost is only effected by it's ability to draw in fresh air. A large K&N pod mounted external is a good idea.

BJ- Thanks...kinda figured that out by all vids I watch here MN.-LOL

ot

BTW- NOBODY is making any claims...just the fact that this new motor makes good power at boost...BJ

 

[Original Tetonice]

Im not a believer that the motor was stock. To turn over 400HP you would need to to change injectors and head compression for starters.

Does anyone know what turbo & size was being used ? Did it have an intercooler ?

BJ, 427HP/237trq sounds like SOMEBODY is making a claim. ....Sound like Bennett Racing is into ice race'in, can't wait to here about his 427hp sled on the ice LOL

Pass the BBQ sauce, please

OT

 

[Gros Chien]

The turbo is a Aerocharger model 66, stock throttle body, stock airbox, straight unmuffled pipe, 2 supplemental injectors in alum. pipe between ''intercooler'' and airbox. The rest is brain using a stock ECU and an electronic device that controls the added injectors thru a RPM/boost loop. This is R&D, trial and error from now-on . That set-up is just the beginning and BRP was not involved one moment into that project so just wait!!!! All the credit here goes to Bennet Racing. Congrat. to Greg and his sons.

 

[Nate]

Wow! Skidoo and Aero 66 Now we REALLY wont see these things on the mountain...., either/or will be in the shop getting repaired or be on a waiting list.....

Get to building Packard.........

BJ, the information you have or are getting, is it second hand or direct? Or are we all making summer assumptions here? I assume just like any other manufacturer that skidoo will put it in a short track version to test before throwing it to the mountains where boo boo's and scraped knee's and gravity all take into effect

 

[TurboT]

Good call Nate. Reliability and SkiDoo have never meshed. They will definately have their growing pains. At least parts should be cheaper now. This reminds me of the Phazer revolution. Hmmm...and the winner is? Big John was making a STATEMENT or else he wouldn't have thrown a thread on Yammi's forum. Guess I'll just come over here and have fun now. Wish you luck BJ, really do, you're talking a good 3-4 years before there's a dramatic difference in western riding. Hope the motor holds together, it will only make snowmobiling fun again. By then Yamaha will be leaps and bounds ahead again. New sleds in 2010. Overall it's awesome for the sport. Guess now the Yammi bros can drop some pig jokes too. I'm going to have a lot of fun if i see them in the hills LOL

 

[triple7]

Either way, the bottom line is this is a 1200cc four stroke that must have a good combustion chamber to handle the boost it did at the compression it has. My prediction is that Apex's will out power it but who wants to ride one. I dont have fifty grand layin around to get one ridable. The doo is closer to a weight I can live with and it looks like it will build enough power to get the job done.

 

[snowmobiler]

oink oink.

 

[TurboT]

My sled is too fast to have a curly tail!!!

Hey snowmobiler, you know that one of these days you're going to have to upgrade from the one you're riding in your pic. Maybe the new 1200 4Tec is just for you! Aren't those the same weights of the Nytros?

 

[Original Tetonice]

There's also alot of folks on Dootalk who are OD-ing on viagra over Doo's 4 banger.

Funny Stuff,

OT

 

[snowmobiler]

"Maybe the new 1200 4Tec is just for you!"
no thanks.i would loose hours of riding diging that porker out of the deep stuff

 

[Boyko]

(427 / (22+14.7)) x 14.7 = 171

Is there something wrong with my math or is that 1200 have a baseline hp (unboosted) around 170 hp. Sometimes there is a little left on the table but this is a lot. Can someone explain, was this motor worked over before the turbo was tossed on it???

 

[dynotechjim]

we're surmising that because the increase in HP per psi boost is very high the 1200 was designed by Rotax to be boosted (probably supercharged like their pwc engines) and BRP just deleted the blower and dropped it in the sled. If we took that engine and raised compression, added timing, replaced that '59 292 Ford exhaust manifold with a decent one, maybe cams designed for NA instead of pressurecharging, valves/ port sizes optimum for NA, HP would probably be much higher than what we saw on the preproduction NA stocker. Just an opinion. Today on the dynocams you should see us trying better exhaust parts on the 4tech, about 10am est.

Note Bennett's lakeracer has 3-1 SS tube header and straight pipe out the bottom of the turbo, Full Power's is stock exhaust manifold.

Yo Gus which FI engine does Rotax do engineering for? I love the sound of 20,000rpm.

 

[maluchm]

There's also alot of folks on Dootalk who are OD-ing on viagra over Doo's 4 banger.

Funny Stuff,

OT

BIG power on a proven engine that has finally made it into a sled. Why not get excited? Seems the ones that aren't excited are getting their feathers ruffled already.

 

[maluchm]

I'm going to have a lot of fun if i see them in the hills LOL

Hey TT, that's what it's all about right.

Reliability and SkiDoo have never meshed

 

[Gros Chien]

Hey Dynotechjim, do you remember ''Sauber Petronas F1'' in the 90's witch is now BMW Petronas F1? well since 2005 BRP(Rotax) has an agreement with Petronas engine department to develop new engines with.

 

[TurboT]

If the new 1200 4Tec proves to be reliable it will only help us all out. The 4 strokes really aren't all that heavy. Remember, if you can't dig it out by yourself, you shouldn't be riding it anyways! Yes, Yamaha makes a heavier sled, but I have never had a single breakdown in over 40,000 miles. Only belts, and one steering post which my friend sat on the hood and rode out. Pretty fun to watch! Yamaha has always believed in supplying its manufacturer with quality products that last for a long time. Hence, their snowmobiling reputation. Any of the big four can make a very light sled like that of the XP. Keeping it together in one piece is the hard part. I believe the Nytro has proven itself now. Yamaha engines/snowmobiles are very turbo friendly. Which means the whole sled is also. I can't wait for the 4Tec to hit the snow. No more flack about comparing 4stroke to 2stroke sleds, cheaper parts...which saves us all a ton of money, and competition again. I have to admit, BJ(which doesn't sound right so i'm going to just call him Big John) has stirred the pot and made it fun!