A very good description of what I felt, and why I am curious about them. Poo feels disposable...
I Rode REV4 Chassis for the first time, very confused...
- Thread starter matchrocket
- Start date
A very good description of what I felt, and why I am curious about them. Poo feels disposable...
Install a set of Zrp spindles that moves the ski mounting hole inline (10mm back) with the suspension spindle mounts. It gets rid of the funky bar movement when in old tracks and variable snow. Surprising that skidoo didn’t change the geometry with the new light weight spindles they came out with recently.
There are BRP spindles available with the ski bolt inline with the spindle mounts too if you wish. The spindles on my Lynx, (A -19 Boondocker RE 3900), are much "straighter" than the ones on my GF's Summit. I´d be surprised if Doo didn't use these on some model(s) too so they are available over there.
Edit. Attaching a pic from the MY -21 Ranger 49 Utility sled spare parts diagram, here you can see how much straighter the spindle is.
Last edited:
Do you happen to have any pictures of the spindles on your sled? I wonder if you could take a straight edge ruler and show me how they are inline.
I think something is wrong with the setup on the sled you rode. I personally haven't ridden a 21 or 20 Expert but I've ridden two 17 165s, a 19 154 600 and a 20 850 154. The front end feels very light and wheelies a lot IMO. Its very playful. If the snow is deep, like say 18" of fresh or better, I like the Doo a lot. It feels way more nimble and flickable than the 16 and 18 Axys 38" sleds I've ridden. Definitely more nimble than the pre Alpha Cats. What I don't like is when the snow is setup, I feel like the bars are flopping all over and I'm getting a crazy amount of feedback. I feel like the sled doesn't like to be ridden aggressively in setup snow, it just fights me. You have to be very gentle with it. I feel like I want a dirt bike steering stabilizer to calm the steering down. However, the Doo steering effort is the easiest, by far and away. Feels like it has power steering. I also feel like the Doo requires you stand further back, like 12-18" from the plastic. I can ride the Cat and Polaris with my feet all the way forward, no problem.
To me, the Alpha feels on par with how nimble it is in deep snow, but feels way more nimble when it is setup. It also gets crazy traction when its on its side. The Polaris feels the least flickable to me, but the most predictable. The Polaris feels perfect once its on its side. I feel like I can hop between a Cat and Polaris no problem. The Doo requires me to adjust but I love it in deep snow. Techy tree riding in more setup snow, not so much. Or at least I would need more time to get comfortable.
To me, the Alpha feels on par with how nimble it is in deep snow, but feels way more nimble when it is setup. It also gets crazy traction when its on its side. The Polaris feels the least flickable to me, but the most predictable. The Polaris feels perfect once its on its side. I feel like I can hop between a Cat and Polaris no problem. The Doo requires me to adjust but I love it in deep snow. Techy tree riding in more setup snow, not so much. Or at least I would need more time to get comfortable.
Ok, so I was in the same situation last weekend ... I rented a 165 Summit SP. At first, the thing was trenching like crazy. Wouldn't get up on the snow for the life of it. I wound up adjusting the rear torsion springs to the stiffest setting, and it felt like a different sled after that. I didn't think it got up on the snow as well as my Axys sleds did, but the limiter strap was still sucked all the way up as well, so that could have had something to do with it .... With that said, after that little tweak, I started having fun on the sled. We weren't riding in epic snow conditions, more like late april conditions, but I was over all impressed with the sled. It didn't take me as long to gel with it as some had led me to believe. I think if I spent a few weeks on this chassis and tweaked the suspension a little bit I could be perfectly happy with it, especially the turbo version.
With that said - The one major beef I had with this sled is that it REALLY wanted to wash the back end out on even modest low-angle side-hills. I was sort of dissappointed in that, but the dealer told me the Pilot 2.0 skis seem to fix that problem? Is that true? What other mods do you need to make to the Gen4 chassis to get it to stick and hole a sidehill like the Axys sleds do?
Don't even need to discuss motor, that's already a given. That Rotax 850 is hands down the best motor on the snow right now
I'm really contemplating spring checking a Summit X 165 Turbo. I think there's a very strong possibility that I will, but wanted to ask about the side hill wash outs
With that said - The one major beef I had with this sled is that it REALLY wanted to wash the back end out on even modest low-angle side-hills. I was sort of dissappointed in that, but the dealer told me the Pilot 2.0 skis seem to fix that problem? Is that true? What other mods do you need to make to the Gen4 chassis to get it to stick and hole a sidehill like the Axys sleds do?
Don't even need to discuss motor, that's already a given. That Rotax 850 is hands down the best motor on the snow right now
I'm really contemplating spring checking a Summit X 165 Turbo. I think there's a very strong possibility that I will, but wanted to ask about the side hill wash outs
i tell you what once you ride the turbo you will have your check book outOk, so I was in the same situation last weekend ... I rented a 165 Summit SP. At first, the thing was trenching like crazy. Wouldn't get up on the snow for the life of it. I wound up adjusting the rear torsion springs to the stiffest setting, and it felt like a different sled after that. I didn't think it got up on the snow as well as my Axys sleds did, but the limiter strap was still sucked all the way up as well, so that could have had something to do with it .... With that said, after that little tweak, I started having fun on the sled. We weren't riding in epic snow conditions, more like late april conditions, but I was over all impressed with the sled. It didn't take me as long to gel with it as some had led me to believe. I think if I spent a few weeks on this chassis and tweaked the suspension a little bit I could be perfectly happy with it, especially the turbo version.
With that said - The one major beef I had with this sled is that it REALLY wanted to wash the back end out on even modest low-angle side-hills. I was sort of dissappointed in that, but the dealer told me the Pilot 2.0 skis seem to fix that problem? Is that true? What other mods do you need to make to the Gen4 chassis to get it to stick and hole a sidehill like the Axys sleds do?
Don't even need to discuss motor, that's already a given. That Rotax 850 is hands down the best motor on the snow right now
I'm really contemplating spring checking a Summit X 165 Turbo. I think there's a very strong possibility that I will, but wanted to ask about the side hill wash outs
I will try to remember to take a picture when I get to the shop tonight.
There are also different upper A-arms, at least for the 38" wide suspension, with more or less"pull" to the back that affects the caster angle. My fathers utility sled has spindles that looks like shoes from one of the Leningrad Cowboys, (google them! =) ), and also upper arms that tilts the spindles even further back compared to my Boondoocker. His sled is more or less unrideable.....
Last edited:
Dogmeat , that snugged up limiter was having it's way with you . the back was pushing while the front was searching for traction . That sucked up limiter probably was making you counter steer too ? Just guessing but there should be no reason to counter steer on these newer skids if set up correctly , there's a happy medium , to much and she'll wheelie when you don't want it .
I agree on the Raptors they are great, suspension adjustment / set up is key on all sleds.
I rode Polaris from 2003 up to 16' T3 Summit 800 was HARD to get used to....but I was never towed back to the parking lot. G4 is very playful when you get used to it. I still own a 13' Pro 163" tha my 16 year old rides so I ride it occasionally and thank God every time that I am now on a Doo 850. The wiggle, as I call it, happens when you are moving through existing tracks/trenches and the T-Motion "wiggles". Can be very hard to deal with but for $39.99 from Skinz I have locked out my Expert after tying again this year to accept it. I just can't. I don't have the confidence when the "wiggle" happens and I am in a hairy place. I add HyGear rear suspension plastics for better performance out of the springs and have been pretty happy with that so far. Ski's.....the are not as good as the Poo ski. I bought Duropro and Grippers for my 18' 850 and really liked it. Will do that next year probably unless SLP comes up with a better rubber. I think you are probably over riding the sled in some aspects and then under riding it in others. As most here have said, you don't ride it like a Pro or an Axys. My oldest rode Pro and Axys until this year and after 3 rides last year 3 rides this year he is finally starting to get it. It will NEVER side hill like a Poo. It side hills ok with either the expert spindles and rubbers or Duropro rubbers. With stock or blown out ski rubbers the ski will stand straight up and the track will wash out and you'll be heading up hill. Most of these issues are much easier to change than motor reliability and I choose reliability any day of the week.
I've ridden one ... spent about 45 minutes on one in the Snowies last season, it was awesome.
Durapro ski rubbers, proper suspension adjustment, to an extent throttle control, will fix 95% or more of your washout problem. IMO you cant ride a Doo like a Poo in a steep sidehill. It takes more throttle finesse on a Doo because of the more agressive track. (AKA you cant be stationary and go to full BRAP like the polaris guys can). If you do it will either lift the front to high or blow the snow out from underneath you.....if that makes any sense.Ok, so I was in the same situation last weekend ... I rented a 165 Summit SP. At first, the thing was trenching like crazy. Wouldn't get up on the snow for the life of it. I wound up adjusting the rear torsion springs to the stiffest setting, and it felt like a different sled after that. I didn't think it got up on the snow as well as my Axys sleds did, but the limiter strap was still sucked all the way up as well, so that could have had something to do with it .... With that said, after that little tweak, I started having fun on the sled. We weren't riding in epic snow conditions, more like late april conditions, but I was over all impressed with the sled. It didn't take me as long to gel with it as some had led me to believe. I think if I spent a few weeks on this chassis and tweaked the suspension a little bit I could be perfectly happy with it, especially the turbo version.
With that said - The one major beef I had with this sled is that it REALLY wanted to wash the back end out on even modest low-angle side-hills. I was sort of dissappointed in that, but the dealer told me the Pilot 2.0 skis seem to fix that problem? Is that true? What other mods do you need to make to the Gen4 chassis to get it to stick and hole a sidehill like the Axys sleds do?
Don't even need to discuss motor, that's already a given. That Rotax 850 is hands down the best motor on the snow right now
I'm really contemplating spring checking a Summit X 165 Turbo. I think there's a very strong possibility that I will, but wanted to ask about the side hill wash outs
Remembered to take pictures!! =)
The ski bolt is actually trailing the turning axis of the spindle a bit.
The ski bolt is actually trailing the turning axis of the spindle a bit.
I noticed on the US trail sleds that the spindle is also that way, BUT it is not as tall as the Summit spindle. Is your sled a comparable model to a Summit or more of a crossover, like a Renegade?
I've had two Freerides with the wide 38-40 front end that come with different spindles. They're not as tall as summit ones, the ski bolts are inline with the a arm bolts and theres a number 6 stamped on the tops. I believe the summit's have a number 8 stamped in them. Not sure what the numbers mean, but that's what I've come across
I struggled with the G4 for the past 2 years coming from Cat. Now on a 165 Turbo and I think I just found the best combo so far to help with side hilling and washout. I added Zmotion rear link, Tmotion lockout, and SLP Mohawk skis with the new SLP rubbers made for the Expert and Turbos. Holy **** it was a night a day difference. No washout, side hilled in a straight line, and cut through old tracks like a razor blade with no bucking. The rubbers are super stiff, resisting ski lift or dive. Really a game changer as I was about to give up on the G4. Not now. Different machine.
It's a Boondocker RE 3900, it's Lynx's version of a Freeride 154".
Looking at it from the side of physics a spindle with "long toes", i.e ski bolt far ahead of the turning axis of the spindle, would result in a servo effect. (Of course the shape of the ski will also come into play)
What I mean is if/when the ski is turned even the slightest angle away from the line of travel the force from the snow on the ski will act to help turn the ski even more. Done wrongly this will result in a very nervous sled.
Last edited:
That's really interesting , we've played with set backs on one skis and there is that fine line like you stated and what it can also do is restrict the ski from floating as well , it pushes it down , like you said a fine line .
I personally disliked it but others like the control it offers .
I personally disliked it but others like the control it offers .
