The Fall of the Republic - 10-21-2009

[Ollie]

Nope, you are continually wrong on this. How do you keep social order? How do you enforce it?

Taken from the wiki site..



hmmm... seems like government is involved in some of these...

Wow, the brain washing took REAL good on you.
Don't say anything in your post from Wiki about government control.

"and ideological systems of values."
Don't know about you, but I got my values from my parents, not my federal politician.

Ever hear of the term "that's rude"?
Who defined the term rude? Your local politician or your parents?

laws are in place to maintain LAW AND ORDER, not SOCIAL ORDER.
Government is there to maintain LAWS.
Too bad the government has decided it no longer wants to enforce the law but would rather change the social fabric of a country that has worked for hundreds of years.

 

[Wolfrun]

Ollie, tell Ruffy if he would associate with a bunch of good, honest, thoughtful, hard working, god fearing, flag raising people, social order will just take care of itself.

 

[HOBB-Z]

Ollie, tell Ruffy if he would associate with a bunch of good, honest, thoughtful, hard working, god fearing, flag raising people, social order will just take care of itself.

That pretty much sums it up.

I find it funny that some people think its ok to stab an 8 month old baby
in the back of the head/ late term abortion. And then come on here and lecture
us about anything.

Ruffy,
I don't know you from Adam but I've read a lot of your posts and its time you give your head a SHAKE.

 

[MTm7]

Ollie, tell Ruffy if he would associate with a bunch of good, honest, thoughtful, hard working, god fearing, flag raising people, social order will just take care of itself.

the GREATEST Form of government is SELF-GOVERNMENT... hows that for social order! but rather we hire corrupt men and give them ample avenues to pursue sundries ways to expand their corruption. if a person's prevailing character is not transparently virtuous than he has NO business in any kind of shaping position(fill the blank).

i am convinced that our current makeup of government officials is nothing more than a microcosm of our culture. we cannot, as a whole, govern ourselves, so corrupt men are given the job to oversee corrupt men. how the hell is that ever going to turn out right?!?!?!?!?! we have lost our way... or should i say the way. one of the founders... benjamin rush...look him up and see what he was about. then compare him to our current crop.

"the only foundation for a useful education in a republic is to be laid in religion. without this there can be no virtue, and without virtue there can be no liberty."(benjamin rush) seems he thought, much as the progressives do, that education was important.

good post wolfrun!

 

[MTm7]

That pretty much sums it up.

I find it funny that some people think its ok to stab an 8 month old baby
in the back of the head/ late term abortion. And then come on here and lecture
us about anything.

Ruffy,
I don't know you from Adam but I've read a lot of your posts and its time you give your head a SHAKE.

i agree... they have absolutely no BASIS for any kind of moral argument!

 

[ruffryder]

Ollie, tell Ruffy if he would associate with a bunch of good, honest, thoughtful, hard working, god fearing, flag raising people, social order will just take care of itself.

Agreed, though as a religious person, aren't we all sinners? Aren't we destined to sin? We are not perfect, nor will we ever be.

 

[Wade]

Nope, you already stated why Wolfrun is still in the system, and you stated the reason was spite. Spite for those that took the money away...

Eveyone that pays into it now hates it, and then it seems it becomes OK to use the system when we benefit it...

Seems in the end, all the talk is just that. Most will drink from the trough eventually.. mostly when their own personal benefit is increased.

You love to pull a sentence, make a meal don't you.

I will reiterate. Wolf, pulls SS because he was promised it. From my read, he would rather not have been part of the mess, but since he was forced in, he's going to take his part. He's taking it because it's owed to him, and he's probably taking a little pleasure watching the great social experiment fail.

Wolf is but one person. What perpetuates SS, is the majority of people that where forced in, and the only reason they didn't raise up, and tear the system down, is because they where promised a return.

Now, here comes the new socialist way of thinking (as presented by Ruffy), if you worked your entire life, you should tear up the social contract the socialist made with you, and not take your investment back, to help the black hole of lazy welfare people, get more than they paid in. Great thinking Ruffy. And, if every herd working person did that, and we paid the debt down, would Congress kill this socialist program, or just give even more money to the say at home leeches? Funny how every program becomes a new source of welfare.

How about not getting into these traps in the first place, hum?

How about paying back our debts, our promises?

How about living within our means, and letting some fall to the wayside?

How about admitting socialism doesn't work?

How about admittingevery government tax will be turned into a new source of welfare revenue?

OK, I'm ready for you to pull one sentence, and justify socialism. So, where does any of this exist within the constitution?

 

[ruffryder]

Ever hear of the term "that's rude"?
Who defined the term rude? Your local politician or your parents?

yep, that is an example of a part of the social order that is not tied with government

laws are in place to maintain LAW AND ORDER, not SOCIAL ORDER.
Government is there to maintain LAWS.

Hey, you can't use a word to define itself.. I see "Law and Order" as a specific subset of "Social Order"

Do not our laws represent our social beliefs? I think, for the most part, they do.

example. We are taught by our parents to not kill or steal. Government has laws to punish people that kill and steal. If this was not a part of social order, would it be part of "Law and Order" ? I don't think it would.

Hence, some of our social orders are expressed in the government.

 

[ruffryder]

I find it funny that some people think its ok to stab an 8 month old baby
in the back of the head/ late term abortion.

That is not my belief.. maybe you should listen to your self.. You don't know me, so why are you pretending?

 

[ruffryder]

I will reiterate. Wolf, pulls SS because he was promised it. From my read, he would rather not have been part of the mess, but since he was forced in, he's going to take his part. He's taking it because it's owed to him, and he's probably taking a little pleasure watching the great social experiment fail.

I will reiterate, the only way for it to be removed is if people are willing to not take their money. When the system fails they won't have a choice in the matter anyways, will they. The same result will occur, people that paid in, won't get their money back out. The only difference is, one group was willing to stand up and take the sacrifice, and the other wasn't.

 

[Ollie]

Hey, you can't use a word to define itself.. I see "Law and Order" as a specific subset of "Social Order"

ruffy, that is your stock and trade. however, in this case the word DOES define itself. Social is a personal term refering to people, not government.

Do not our laws represent our social beliefs? I think, for the most part, they do.

Not even close. If that were true the religious right would have stopped gay rights dead in its tracks, abortion would be illegal in any form. Laws can and sometimes do reflect social order, however, laws can NEVER enforce social order. Do you honestly think the police could stop a popular uprising? Get real.
example. We are taught by our parents to not kill or steal. Government has laws to punish people that kill and steal. If this was not a part of social order, would it be part of "Law and Order" ? I don't think it would.

Wrong, the very laws you quote are directly linked to religious belief and the religious background of this nation. It was founded by christians and with them the brought and based our laws on the 10 commandments. Social order is based on family history and family teachings, the current liberal run is to try and change the social order thru the schools sytems. Get em young and train em right.

Hence, some of our social orders are expressed in the government.

wow, your arguement just goes in circles and goes no where.
Again, the government can ONLY enforce LAWS.
Social order is maintained by people. If the people rise up, the laws change because the social order has changed, the laws don't change just because someone wants it too.

 

[H2SNOW]

That pretty much sums it up.

I find it funny that some people think its ok to stab an 8 month old baby
in the back of the head/ late term abortion. And then come on here and lecture
us about anything.

Ruffy,
I don't know you from Adam but I've read a lot of your posts and its time you give your head a SHAKE.

ruffy gets paid to do this kinda stuff ........hes a snitch on all of us for BO

 

[ruffryder]

Social order is maintained by people. If the people rise up, the laws change because the social order has changed, the laws don't change just because someone wants it too.

And that isn't circular? LMAO... You just said, social order changes then laws change. Therefore they are tied!!!! You just said it!!!

Originally Posted by ruffryder
Hey, you can't use a word to define itself.. I see "Law and Order" as a specific subset of "Social Order"

Social is a personal term refering to people, not government.

The government does the will of the people...

Not even close. If that were true the religious right would have stopped gay rights dead in its tracks, abortion would be illegal in any form. Laws can and sometimes do reflect social order, however, laws can NEVER enforce social order. Do you honestly think the police could stop a popular uprising? Get real.

More circular talk. The laws reflect social order but they don't enforce it..

As to gay rights and the like, I have stated some... laws represent SOME or PART of social order. But anyways, isn't our social order about equality and about freedom of religion? There are rules and laws that ENFORCE that.

Wrong, the very laws you quote are directly linked to religious belief and the religious background of this nation. It was founded by christians and with them the brought and based our laws on the 10 commandments.

Incorrect. You are assuming that the belief in that killing someone is bad is only believed by christians. Incorrect.

This government WAS NOT FOUNDED by CHRISTIANS. They were believers in god, but they were not CHRISTIANs. They were mostly Deists..Check it out.
​

 

[ruffryder]

ruffy gets paid to do this kinda stuff ........hes a snitch on all of us for BO

sometimes I wish you got paid to post your stuff... it would explain some of it.

 

[Wade]

I will reiterate, the only way for it to be removed is if people are willing to not take their money. When the system fails they won't have a choice in the matter anyways, will they. The same result will occur, people that paid in, won't get their money back out. The only difference is, one group was willing to stand up and take the sacrifice, and the other wasn't.

And, I'll reiterate. That won't work.

If the good people stop taking the money, the politicians will just give more to the bad people. They have no political interest in killing the cash flow.

 

[ruffryder]

And, I'll reiterate. That won't work.

That should never be a reason to not do something that you are moral required to do so. It should be done, because it is the right thing to do, regardless. That is just sad... and another reason for why things are the way they are. People think that they have no action, no recourse, there is nothing they can do to make a difference, often make that true..

 

[Ollie]

That should never be a reason to not do something that you are moral required to do so. It should be done, because it is the right thing to do, regardless. That is just sad... and another reason for why things are the way they are. People think that they have no action, no recourse, there is nothing they can do to make a difference, often make that true..

The people DON"T have any recource.
The people voted for change based on promises made by bo.
He lied.
None of the things he promised have been done.
The politicians don't and have NEVER represented the people.
They represent their own interests and those of the people that put them there.
That is why the 10th amendment was put in the constitution. Too bad no one follows the constitution anymore.

As for the social issue thing.
As long as people think like yourself that it takes government to enforce social order, we are doomed to dictatorship.

 

[MTm7]

And that isn't circular? LMAO... You just said, social order changes then laws change. Therefore they are tied!!!! You just said it!!!

Originally Posted by ruffryder
Hey, you can't use a word to define itself.. I see "Law and Order" as a specific subset of "Social Order"


The government does the will of the people...


More circular talk. The laws reflect social order but they don't enforce it..

As to gay rights and the like, I have stated some... laws represent SOME or PART of social order. But anyways, isn't our social order about equality and about freedom of religion? There are rules and laws that ENFORCE that.

Incorrect. You are assuming that the belief in that killing someone is bad is only believed by christians. Incorrect.

This government WAS NOT FOUNDED by CHRISTIANS. They were believers in god, but they were not CHRISTIANs. They were mostly Deists..Check it out.
​

well well well the king of 'nothing but the facts' is propagating a myth! perhaps you should check it out... this nation was emphatcally founded by christians...like it or not!

http://www.wallbuilders.com/LIBissuesArticles.asp?id=8755

http://www.wallbuilders.com/LIBissuesArticles.asp?id=46

 

[ruffryder]

well well well the king of 'nothing but the facts' is propagating a myth! perhaps you should check it out... this nation was emphatcally founded by christians...like it or not!

http://www.wallbuilders.com/LIBissuesArticles.asp?id=8755

They might have quoted scripture, but most of them were Deists...

Oh, the educations system... seriously dude. I have looked into this a lot. The founding fathers were made up of a majority of Deists.

 

[ruffryder]

The people DON"T have any recource.

Yes they do, but it is easier to just complain about it. Everyone talks about revolt, but how many are even willing to take a day off of work to go to a demonstration?

As long as people think like yourself that it takes government to enforce social order, we are doomed to dictatorship.

I never said that it TAKES government to enforce social order. Social order can exist without a government. But when there is a government, normally the rules being enforced by said government represent laws in parallel with the social order of the society.