The Fall of the Republic - 10-21-2009

[ruffryder]

yep

So social security will fail from mismanagement and a lack of funds, and you expect to get paid your funds even though the government doesn't have it.

You say I roll over and take it, and I say you are dreaming. If SS goes down, nobody will be getting anything back from it. You say pay it back it 10 - 20 years. umm.. you mean, kind of like Social Security, except without the money coming in to pay for some of it? LMAO

 

[MTm7]

ahhh the good old conservative circle jerk...

Don't worry guys... SS will always be here so you can get your money back. No worries..

I love it when political ideologies give way to good old selfishness! Right on!! LMAO..

speaking of defeatism... sounding an awful lot like a sore loser!

 

[V-Man]

Did anyone watch Beck today. Galveston Texas opted out of social security and did a private method with far better results. Too bad I don't have such an option in Washington.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/2005-03-15-benefits-reform-galveston_x.htm

an excerpt:

Upon retirement after 30 years, and assuming a more conservative 5% rate of return, all workers would do better for the same contribution as Social Security:

• Workers making $17,000 a year are expected to receive about 50% more per month on our alternative plan than on Social Security — $1,036 instead of $683.

• Workers making $26,000 a year will make almost double Social Security, $1,500 instead of $853.

• Workers making $51,000 a year will get $3,103 instead of $1,368.

• Workers making $75,000 or more will nearly triple Social Security, $4,540 instead of $1,645.

• Our survivorship benefits pay four times a worker's annual salary — a minimum of $75,000 to a maximum $215,000 — rather than Social Security's customary onetime $255 survivorship to a spouse (with no minor children). If the worker dies before retirement, the survivors receive not only the full survivorship but get generous accidental death benefits, too.

• Our disability benefit pays 60% of an individual's salary, better than Social Security's.

 

[MTm7]

So the other stuff that is taken out of your paycheck, is taken with your consent?


So what do you think is going to happen when SS implodes? Do you expect to get you money back then?


You are assuming that ALL the money that went into SS from you would be saved and invested. I highly doubt that is the case for the average SS payer.

to me you miss the point entirely... or maybe i just see it this way and think that that is what ollie is saying. here's the point... give us the choice to decide what we want to do with our money. if we dont save to bad. and here's the hitch for me... the government thinks they are smarter than me so they have decided what to do with my money. what i have in bold seems to me what you have hedged to... no? assuage my angst?!?!?!?!?!

 

[V-Man]

You paid in money to SS
You will not allow SS to be removed unless you get all your money back.
There is not enough money in the SS fund to pay everyone back.
The money can't and will not come from anywhere else (no government loans, taking from other programs..)

SS is nothing more than a Ponzi scheme. Who should sit in jail next to Madoff for this atrocity?

 

[Ollie]

So social security will fail from mismanagement and a lack of funds, and you expect to get paid your funds even though the government doesn't have it.

You say I roll over and take it, and I say you are dreaming. If SS goes down, nobody will be getting anything back from it. You say pay it back it 10 - 20 years. umm.. you mean, kind of like Social Security, except without the money coming in to pay for some of it? LMAO

Heres the thing you just don't get.
Give me 3 years. I will shut down welfare and SS.
With the funds from those 2 programs in that same 3 years you can pay back everyone under the age of 50.
The amount of money totally wasted by those 2 funds in outragous.

as I said earlier.
Up till bo and company, most of the national debt was money owed to ourselves. That is one of the reason none of the politicians took the debt seriously. If the feds quit playing games and running up social schemes, we would have the money to pay everyone back and get out of the social welfare buisness.

no matter what happens, they need to STOP STEALING MY MONEY.

 

[ruffryder]

to me you miss the point entirely...

We aren't talking about if there SHOULD have been an SS... Maybe that is why you think I missed the point...

 

[ruffryder]

Heres the thing you just don't get.
Give me 3 years. I will shut down welfare and SS.
With the funds from those 2 programs in that same 3 years you can pay back everyone under the age of 50.

I will give you 5 years... Though I don't really know what the point of that even was. Is this one of those... If I were president this is what I would do, type of arguments?

Anyways... Where is my money man?

 

[Wade]

BTW, good ones Ollie.

Ruffy, if your saying it's not going to be around, then why should you and I keep paying into it? It's not a tax. Taxes don't get put in savings accounts, the way SS used to be, when it was started until the 60's. In the 60's, do you think they stole the money and said, it's a tax now. Nope, they said were going to pay that account back. They were just borrowing the money.

Now, you've decided it's a tax. You've decided you must pay the tax, even though it wasn't a tax, and they are going to change all the rules. And, even though the money was all stolen for other socialist programs. Politicians have lied how many times here? Why the heck should we ever trust another one again?

My point is, your right, it won't be around, but here we are talking about socialist healthcare. We don't owe anyone health care, and if we can't meet our OBLIGATIONS FOR SS, then why in the hell are we starting yet another socialist program. A financially responsible person would pay back his obligations, and if he couldn't, he sure as heck wouldn't keep paying for programs he didn't have too. There is no obligation to welfare. A responsible person, would pay back his obligations FIRST. No new car, no new house, no hot rods, no charity. Pay back the debts first, and if you can't then cut back until you are paying nothing but what obligations you can.

Then just freaking kill all socialist programs. And quit stealing my money.

It's not fair to retirees to kill SS, we owe them. But, it's not fair to retirees that we give money to ACORN, and welfare, and all manners of socialist programs, and ear marks, and stimulus checks, and earned income credits, and tax based welfare, and ..... But, we can't pay working people back their retirement. That's just not right.

 

[Ollie]

Anyways... Where is my money man?

Same place everyone elses is.
In the hands of politicians who are wasting it as fast as they can.

 

[Wade]

Yep Ollie.

I don't want this to be about getting my money back, I want this to be about, the government not playing Rob Hood with other people's money.

 

[Yamahamod]

http://www.snowest.com/forum/showthread.php?t=174928

I highly doubt SS will even make it to the end of 2012.


I 2nd that Wade:

It's not fair to retirees to kill SS, we owe them. But, it's not fair to retirees that we give money to ACORN, and welfare, and all manners of socialist programs, and ear marks, and stimulus checks, and earned income credits, and tax based welfare, and ..... But, we can't pay working people back their retirement. That's just not right.

 

[Wolfrun]

That is the real problem, blowing billions on Acorn and all the social engineering projects. Bo blew enough in the stimulus plan to run SS and Medicare for a long long time and all it was for was to pay back the unions and other organizations who gave money and voted for him and the biggest purpose was to set up the Democrats for the next two elections. We just can can not afford them.

 

[Gainster]

So this morning msnbc is now worried that with healtcare to come the dems will lose the next election like they did after passing medicare, It was only 47 seats.

 

[Ollie]

ya know, if the politicians would just grow a backbone and man up.
Stand in front of the U.S. and state, SS is broke. We can't afford it anymore.
Anyone under the age of 50 no longer has SS.
We will stop taking out taxes for it and it is gone.

Ok, fine. It's over.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/socialsecurity/changes.asp

 

[Ollie]

So this morning msnbc is now worried that with healtcare to come the dems will lose the next election like they did after passing medicare, It was only 47 seats.

Lets hope it's a LOT more than 47.

 

[Wolfrun]

The whole fallacy of Social Security, Medicare, Medicare and welfare of every kind is that the government thinks they know better how to take care of you than you know how to take care of your selves. In many cases that may be true but as far as I am concerned, I DO NOT NEED GOVERNMENT TO PROTECT ME FROM MYSELF. Just leave me alone and I will make out, I always have.