The Fall of the Republic - 10-21-2009

[ruffryder]

As to most peoples points about health care, I would agree with most of it. There are problems with the system. Problems with the insurance companies, problems with the doctors, and problems with us.

Seems that a bunch of these points are being discussed by the white house and congressmen, but it seems like the news orgs, as usual, just like to point out the issues that have the biggest knee jerk response...

 

[ruffryder]

thats some BOLD statements... even for you! though some caution would be more advised before you go leveling such accusations.

get this straight... i do not base my life, in terms of being 'good', on whether i have prosperity!

i hope you are trying to allude to the fact that most americans are selfish... is that your point?

keep in mind, the you is your generation..... the average of your generation. I do not expect that to be applicable to everyone, nor most on here. But, there had to be one, didn't there? lol , I do hold you responsible for them. Fair or not, that is the way it is. I am also responsible for my generation...

Would you really disagree with that though? I mean look at how corrupt the system is, it is corrupt on most levels, and as with money, corruption flows uphill... I just see that the American people have lost what was important, the lost control of the government.. Maybe lost is a bad word, they gave it away to people that were willing to use it and distort it for their own personal gain.

Look at voting in this country.. it is difficult to get more then like 50-60 percent to vote for the President... What does that tell you about the American people? We all like to cut the govt down, but we are very unwilling to sacrifice any part of our lives to make the situation better....

Look at SAWS, look at WSSA, look at snowmobile clubs. There are few people there that do a lot of work, tons of work. They are willing to give the most important thing, their time to the cause.

Not many people these days are willing to give their time to anything besides making money....

That was what I meant or was meaning to say.. Bold.. I guess so..

 

[MTm7]

As to most peoples points about health care, I would agree with most of it. There are problems with the system. Problems with the insurance companies, problems with the doctors, and problems with us.

Seems that a bunch of these points are being discussed by the white house and congressmen, but it seems like the news orgs, as usual, just like to point out the issues that have the biggest knee jerk response...

you see there you go again trying to marginalize...what you call knee jerk i call ominous. is it all just a matter of perspective? which in reality doesnt really matter as we could both be wrong given our wrong perspectives!

 

[MTm7]

keep in mind, the you is your generation..... the average of your generation. I do not expect that to be applicable to everyone, nor most on here. But, there had to be one, didn't there? lol , I do hold you responsible for them. Fair or not, that is the way it is. I am also responsible for my generation...

i disagree... you cant compartmentalize. but if that is the case then i hold you responsible because your generation is shaping up to be the most narcissistic(read self-absorbed) we have seen. therefore my children are screwed for sure!

 

[MTm7]

keep in mind, the you is your generation..... the average of your generation. I do not expect that to be applicable to everyone, nor most on here. But, there had to be one, didn't there? lol , I do hold you responsible for them. Fair or not, that is the way it is. I am also responsible for my generation...

Would you really disagree with that though? I mean look at how corrupt the system is, it is corrupt on most levels, and as with money, corruption flows uphill... I just see that the American people have lost what was important, the lost control of the government.. Maybe lost is a bad word, they gave it away to people that were willing to use it and distort it for their own personal gain.

Look at voting in this country.. it is difficult to get more then like 50-60 percent to vote for the President... What does that tell you about the American people? We all like to cut the govt down, but we are very unwilling to sacrifice any part of our lives to make the situation better....

Look at SAWS, look at WSSA, look at snowmobile clubs. There are few people there that do a lot of work, tons of work. They are willing to give the most important thing, their time to the cause.

Not many people these days are willing to give their time to anything besides making money....

That was what I meant or was meaning to say.. Bold.. I guess so..

well you did a fine job of saying in this post^^^! now what you said here i can agree with! especially your point of giving it, government, away... we sacrificed involvement for entertainment(obviously more to it than that but for the sake of brevity)!

 

[ruffryder]

you see there you go again trying to marginalize...what you call knee jerk i call ominous. is it all just a matter of perspective? which in reality doesnt really matter as we could both be wrong given our wrong perspectives!

totally a matter of perspective.. because it is about fairness and money. These two concepts are completely subjective...

How much money should we pay, how much should they make.

All I have seen and read about health care points to that we are screwed. The doctors and the health insurance companies know it too, that is why they are sitting down and talking about it.

To pick out just one part of a change in the system, though, seems erroneous, as the function of the system and how it operates is of more important concern...

I do know, that health care as we know it needs to change by a very large amount. The whole system is broken, the markets in the system are not optimized to provide a reduced cost / increased benefit scenario...

Anyways, we are both wrong...

 

[MTm7]

totally a matter of perspective.. because it is about fairness and money. These two concepts are completely subjective...

How much money should we pay, how much should they make.

All I have seen and read about health care points to that we are screwed. The doctors and the health insurance companies know it too, that is why they are sitting down and talking about it.

To pick out just one part of a change in the system, though, seems erroneous, as the function of the system and how it operates is of more important concern...

I do know, that health care as we know it needs to change by a very large amount. The whole system is broken, the markets in the system are not optimized to provide a reduced cost / increased benefit scenario...

Anyways, we are both wrong...

yes health care is getting out of control. and the horizon doesnt look good, ie, baby boomers etc. but to say the government should be handed control is complete lunacy. you yourself agree that D.C. is totally corrupt... why on Gods green earth would i want them in control of such a vital part of life? no way! im sorry ruffy you can point out all the lesser points of health reform but i will never conform to the government being in control of it. and lets not forget the main reason the barry admin wants to do this deal.... CONTROL.... PERIOD!

 

[MTm7]

its been fun ruffy... be back in awhile!

 

[Wade]

See Ruffy, Social Security and Medicare, there a socialist addictive substance. You can't refuse to take it, because it's free and everyone else is getting it, but that doesn't mean you like taking it.

Plus, this older generation, it's not like anything's really changed. For a lot of us, where reliving the Carter Administration. Although, I shouldn't say that since I'm not really old enough. And, it's not like a lot of them, if given the choice, wouldn't have opted out of social security payments, and now expected nothing in return. Liberals are emotional, loving, caring, people, that will hold a gun to your head for tax money. Try not paying social security, see what happens to you.

And, as for Medicare, a lot of people worked their entire lives, and earned healthcare from their employer. And, a couple years ago, the dang socialist stepped in, and made it "easy" for companies to force their employees into Medicare, and drop their old health insurance. So, they don't really have any choice now.

Do you understand that government involvement can keep you safe from people that want to steal what you earned? But, government can also take away everything you earned, in the name of "helping" you. A lot of those little rules the government creates to "Help" you, end up creating the problems that the market would have naturally have taken care of, but can't, because un-natural forces are exerted up on the market. Forces called Government.

 

[Ollie]

Hey Ruffy,
Looks like the 10 - 20 year thing as usual is total bs.
As I said, they can't tell one year from now, let alone 10 - 20, and now, their own accounting office admits it.

http://www.snowest.com/forum/showthread.php?t=173822

 

[Wolfrun]

Ruffy, I get Social Security and I paid for it every damn step of the way. I have been working on roads and paying into Social Security since I was 12 years old and that was 58 freakin years ago. I haven't read your drivel very closely but I gathered you think SC is a welfare program. Well all the years I worked for someone else my employer paid half and I paid the other half. The 26 years I worked for myself I paid ALL of it, 15.6 percent of my income and I still pay roughly 1200 dollars additionally for medicare. I agree with H2, shut your pie hole! I am not drawing one freakin cent that I didn't pay for, and yes I am pissed, so drop it.

 

[ruffryder]

See Ruffy, Social Security and Medicare, there a socialist addictive substance. You can't refuse to take it, because it's free and everyone else is getting it, but that doesn't mean you like taking it.

The socialists made me take it? Is that your response?

I guess I will take the money.... but I am not going to like it.... Sorry, I am not buying it...

 

[ruffryder]

I haven't read your drivel very closely......

That is one method for me to stop reading your post....

 

[ruffryder]

Hey Ruffy,
Looks like the 10 - 20 year thing as usual is total bs.
As I said, they can't tell one year from now, let alone 10 - 20, and now, their own accounting office admits it.

http://www.snowest.com/forum/showthread.php?t=173822

Have you seen that documentary about the US and debt? Called something like I.O.USA?

It is about a bunch of high up government officials going around trying to tell people the problems that we are facing...

 

[Wolfrun]

That is one method for me to stop reading your post....

Sorry if I hurt your feelings Ruffy, but you were in way over your head.

 

[ruffryder]

Sorry if I hurt your feelings Ruffy, but you were in way over your head.

no hurt feelings here.. You just get the respect you give, is all.

 

[Wade]

The socialists made me take it? Is that your response?

I guess I will take the money.... but I am not going to like it.... Sorry, I am not buying it...

Yes Ruffy, that's why civilizations fall. Because a bunch of fracking bleeding hearts want to give every spare cent away during the good times, then they don't know how to pay back all their promises, during the downturns. And, they want every cent you earn, because they know how to spend it better than you do.

Fine, tell me this oh mighty Ruffy, I don't want to pay Social Security, can I opt out? Who do I write, and tell them to stop SS? Or, do we have to start a civil war and execute all the fracking bleeding hearts? Or, do we just disarm the liberals, so they can't force their socialism on everyone else. How do I stop paying in? Come on smarty. I'm sure your answer will be as quip, as your last comment. Useless, and condescending.

I'm sure as heck not going to pay in at the point of a gun, and then refuse to take it, for moral reasons. I'd rather take the SS money, buy a bunch of explosives, and kill a bunch of liberals. Is that OK? There would be some poetic justice to that, wouldn't there?

 

[ruffryder]

I'm sure as heck not going to pay in at the point of a gun, and then refuse to take it, for moral reasons. I'd rather take the SS money, buy a bunch of explosives, and kill a bunch of liberals. Is that OK? There would be some poetic justice to that, wouldn't there?

Correct, there is no way to not pay in, hence I wasn't arguing against that point.

The above quote though..... That is my point. Everyone is on here saying how much BS all these programs are, but yet most are drawing from them? So how does the cycle ever stop?

Look at Wolfruns attitude. He said it himself, he thinks he is entitled to that amount of money.... because he paid into it... So how do you end that program then? Someone is going to get the shaft, it doesn't sound like he will accept it being him, nor would most, I assume, in his position.

The only ones that seem to oppose it, are the ones not getting any benefit from it.

and yes, it would be poetic justice, blowing up the people that paid and are paying into the system for you to take money out of the system...

Though, better would be using your money to pay for someone elses SS costs.. That one might actually make a positive difference.

I find it interesting that despite the many different attitudes on here, they are all deemed acceptable as long as the person is viewed as "one of the guys", a republican, a conservative..... How about some consistency?

 

[Wolfrun]

My attitude is that if I could have controlled the investment of the money I paid into SS I would have had in the millions instead of thousands as SS pays so don't bother telling me I am getting something for nothing. I went to a lot of Caterpillar seminars over the years and they used to work that out for us because they wanted us to invest in Cat. I know for a fact how it all works out. As it is now the government just steals the trust fund money, spends it in the general fund and when it is broke they say, oh gee we have to raise taxes to fix SS, Well I say bull**** you just write the checks on the general fund. I may have fallen off a turnip truck, but it wasn't yesterday. You guys are just mad because you know you will never see any SS.

 

[Ollie]

The above quote though..... That is my point. Everyone is on here saying how much BS all these programs are, but yet most are drawing from them? So how does the cycle ever stop?

You tell us. You seem to have all the answers. How do we opt out? How do we force the federal government to let us decide our own future? How do we force the feds to give us the money we already had stolen out of our paychecks to pay for these bs programs?

Look at Wolfruns attitude. He said it himself, he thinks he is entitled to that amount of money.... because he paid into it... So how do you end that program then? Someone is going to get the shaft, it doesn't sound like he will accept it being him, nor would most, I assume, in his position.

He is owed it. He paid into it. He had no choice. If you have money in the bank, you want it don't you? The question remains. How do you FORCE the politicians in washington to give you the choice?

Though, better would be using your money to pay for someone elses SS costs.. That one might actually make a positive difference.

Explain that one for me would ya. The way I see it, the feds are currently stealing my future to pay for someone elses because the feds already looted the fund and took all the money that was owed to the people that already paid in.

I find it interesting that despite the many different attitudes on here, they are all deemed acceptable as long as the person is viewed as "one of the guys", a republican, a conservative..... How about some consistency?

I'm not a conservative or a republican. Some of my views would be considered down right liberal.
I am all about personal responcibility. No federal control, no state control.
Enforce the laws and give me the control of my money and my future.