Supertorquer 'Central Roller Mass' Swing Arms

[Original Tetonice]

hERES mY aNSWRE hERES MY aNSEWER.....its already been proven

Ot

 

[snowrdr]

All I can say in this debate is the following. I NEED SNOW!!!!!!!! Then I can try the system and go from there.

 

[Red-eye]

No he did not suggest that at all. The feeling was that the secondary set up from the factory was good. Now I did have to re-set my click adjusment on my secondary after install. I think one of my issues right now is that my primary has a new surface that I did on it as well. So it is a bit grabby at this point.

I always brake the surface in like a new belt. It will be interesting to see if these work as well as he said. Trying will tell.

 

[Original Tetonice]

Once you have snow and you have acheived the baseline you will love the product it should work well like similar products doo.

OT

 

[Red-eye]

OT is right but just not explaining himself to you. If you take the arm from the center of the pivot point and draw a straight line through to the center of the roller the weight is centralized.So you have X amount of force at full shift. If you add weight to the UNDER SIDE of the arm it will increase X buy a larger amount than if you were to add the same weight to the tip, plus it will backshift better.This is what heavy hitter arms accomplish.The further away from the center line of the arm on the under side the greater the force even more, thats why the heel clicker arms would fix the full shiftout force because the arm is still being pushed up.If you look at were the roller is on these new arms you'll see all the weight of the arm IS on the under side forcing it to shiftout more than anything on the market.Those arms are a drag racers dream, I just hope it will backshift well,that is just as important in my opion.Hard to explain in such a small paragraph.
Hope this helps

I agree just couldnt understand the last sentence. Makers of these arms said it was back shifting fast at every speed thats what made me want to try them.

 

[tollen77]

I agree just couldnt understand the last sentence. Makers of these arms said it was back shifting fast at every speed thats what made me want to try them.

OT is talking about the Thundershift arms, Heel clicker arms or any other arm that you can add weight to different parts of the arm. He may be right that the other arms are great, I have no experience with them so I don't have an opinion. The problem is this thread is about a completely different arm, that's all.

I appreciate the info you and snowrdr could share red-eye. Hopefully you get some snow and can do some reall testing soon. These new arms seem very promising... as long as they can back shift. My concern is that they's get stuck up in the mid to high range RPM's and that you'll need a stiffer spring - which kinda defeats the purpose IMO.


.

 

[Original Tetonice]

OT is talking about the Thundershift arms, Heel clicker arms or any other arm that you can add weight to different parts of the arm. He may be right that the other arms are great, I have no experience with them so I don't have an opinion. The problem is this thread is about a completely different arm, that's all.

I appreciate the info you and snowrdr could share red-eye. Hopefully you get some snow and can do some reall testing soon. These new arms seem very promising... as long as they can back shift. My concern is that they's get stuck up in the mid to high range RPM's and that you'll need a stiffer spring - which kinda defeats the purpose IMO.


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Like i have said the Team, Thunder shifters and Supertorquer NEW arm's all acheive the same result by shifting the weight away from the tip of the arm. Supertorquer in there effort has also moved the roller probably so they don't get in a "legal battle" over "patent rights" therefore they had to come up with a slightly new mouse trap to acheive the same results...... As mention these types of arms are designed for hard fast upshift and therefore will require a stiffer secondary spring to balance out the backshift the rider desires. The blue primary spring provided in the supertorquer kit is also a beast with a heavy finish to keep the belt sqweezed tight at higher rpms.

The roller location is not the key factor other than the roller contains the pin weight just as it does when using stock parts. It appears that the roller placment might very well be the only way around the "patent rights" of similar products since the roller contains the pin weight.

Your concerns about getting stuck up in mid and higher rpms is a mute point since 99.9% of the riding most mountain riders do happens to be in the mid & upper rpm's. If you happen to be a rare breed and ride around in low rpms there is no need for such a kit imo.

OT

 

[tollen77]

I see what you're saying now OT re: these things being just a different way to move the weight around. I think it's a much bigger deal - moving the roller - but the end result is adding much more tip weight. The key is the balance of the arm though, something which can't be achieved in the other arms you mentioned since the roller is at the tip.

Anyway, all I'm interested in hearing is how Snowrdr, Red-Eye or anyone else that has tried these arms makes out.

 

[snowrdr]

Anyway, all I'm interested in hearing is how Snowrdr, Red-Eye or anyone else that has trid these arms makes out.[/QUOTE]

I wish I could give you a realtime snow report. I feel like it is Sept around here with temps in the 50's and 60's.

 

[tollen77]

Anyway, all I'm interested in hearing is how Snowrdr, Red-Eye or anyone else that has trid these arms makes out.

I wish I could give you a realtime snow report. I feel like it is Sept around here with temps in the 50's and 60's.[/QUOTE]

I hear ya, we're just getting some decent snow out here on the Canadian prairies... later than usual. Maybe if we co-ordinated our snow dances to the same date and time we might have better luck.

 

[tollen77]

I've been thinking about backshifting in the primary a bunch lately. I know many contend that backshifting happens only in the secondary and IMO they are mostly right, and most backshifting is driven by the secondary.

There are cases though where centri***al force holds the arms out even after you let off the throttle and keeps the primary at least partially closed. Most would say this phenomenon is due to too light of a spring - not enough force provided to push the clutch face closed and force the arms back to a neutral position. The problem is that if you add a stronger spring you decrease up-shifting forces as the same force now has more spring to overcome --- a poor solution to the problem.

I went back and re-read the article by the guys from Supertorquer. I think I'm mistaken to be concerned about their new arms being 'stuck' in a higher ratio (mid to high RPM range). If the arms are lighter weight they should create less centri***al force (force away from the center) and therefore less spring should be required to pull them back to neutral. That would be the beauty of a lighter arm that still pushes with the same force as a heavier one.

Does anyone know what spring the kit comes from? I suspect it's lighter than stock.

 

[Juggs]

not to hi jack this already hijacked thread


has any one used the Super torquer Arms that have the swing arm in the middle?
not sure what they call them , for Cat clutched they are called Heelclickers and they work awesome.
wondering how that principle works for the TRA , Appreciate any Info

 

[DaveB]

Those are the ones I was more interested as well....here's a C&P from their website:

All REV, MXZ, Mach Z, and Summit Models This revolutionary weight is a direct bolt in for all TRA and TRA III clutches. These weights are made of billet aluminum and solve the age old problem of not having the TRA clutch fully shift out on the top end. It works by tucking up to 22 extra grams under the stationary pin (similar to the Polaris flyweight style clutch). The results are unmatched acceleration, and top end speed with explosive midrange. Our competitors are busy trying to duplicate this design because it works so well. Our patented leveraged arm has no compromises. It adds weight at just the right time to give you a complete solution.

 

[tollen77]

Those are the ones I was more interested as well....here's a C&P from their website:

Really Dave, you're more interested in the heavier ones??? I would have thought you'd be intrigued by something that pushes as hard as the heavy ones but backshifts a lot quicker.

 

[DaveB]

The "heel" is what makes the Heelclicker weights work. As the roller goes past 90 degrees to the center of rotation, it losses starts making less force. The Heelclicker weights have a portion of mass that rotates into the 90 degree slot after the tip goes past. This is why they work.

Those other arms you guys are looking at are just another way of getting more tip weight. Argue all ya want with OT, but he's (in essence) correct. The OLD Heelclicker system that he reffered to was a way of using Comet-style weights (Heelclicker Comet-style weights) in a TRA. That system WORKED....but you lost your TRA clickers.

 

[tollen77]

The "heel" is what makes the Heelclicker weights work. As the roller goes past 90 degrees to the center of rotation, it losses starts making less force. The Heelclicker weights have a portion of mass that rotates into the 90 degree slot after the tip goes past. This is why they work.

Those other arms you guys are looking at are just another way of getting more tip weight. Argue all ya want with OT, but he's (in essence) correct. The OLD Heelclicker system that he reffered to was a way of using Comet-style weights (Heelclicker Comet-style weights) in a TRA. That system WORKED....but you lost your TRA clickers.

I understand what your saying about the heelclickers Dave - hell, I even looked into getting them a while back. But since these new CRA's came along and have, what I feel, is a superior design, I'm probably gonna be getting a pair of these.

Do the heel clickers gradually rotate into position or do they kind of slam into position once they pass a certian point?

 

[Wheel House Motorsports]

basically the theory the guy lund on DOOTALK did, the factory doo 1000 arms are like 80 grams, while the 800 are 65, so he runs 800 arms with more pin weight and it works awsome.

you essentially only need so much force one the roller, so by moving the weight from close to the base of the arm all the way out, it still does the same amount of work. this way you have less overall mass having ot move resulting in better shifting in and out reactions.

 

[ABDOO799]

i think you guys missed the point, with the balancing act less
force is exerted in the swing pin and so more is left to do shifting,
not necesserly needed more weight to do job, more weight ends up in
the ramp % wise
mr mike, northern alberta

 

[Wheel House Motorsports]

anyone who yanked there stock arms, wanna sell em??

 

[Wheel House Motorsports]

i think you guys missed the point, with the balancing act less
force is exerted in the swing pin and so more is left to do shifting,
not necesserly needed more weight to do job, more weight ends up in
the ramp % wise
mr mike, northern alberta

exactly, of the overall mass pin+arm weight, there is much less, you could add 20 grams at 1/4 the distance up the arm and get the same RPM results, but it will shift like a turd.