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Steamboat rollover

I've experienced this. Last summer in morning traffic traffic started coming to halt very quickly. Without a trailer, I would have been struggling to get to a stop. With my trailer loaded I saw the back of a small car losing a battle. I looked right and noticed an open lane. I opted to move to the right and also knowing I still had the room on the shoulder. Well the little car in front of me did the same taking up my slack. I hit her and spun her around and off the road. Much better than what it was going to be. Well someone behind me did the same and hit me and started pushing from behind. I decided it was best to point to the shoulder and go into the grass. That driver fled the scene. Police came to clean up, found me at fault for rear ending and then decided to tax me I mean right me a ticket for illegally operating a motor vehicle off the highway($650). I'm not a law enforcement hater but I strongly dislike the idea of finding as much guilt as possible. Good luck trying to wiggle out of it later. The rollover damage and scare was probably enough without the additional sting of the ticket with the OP's friend.
 
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The problem that I see is Law Enforcement some times so little empathy.
They sometimes stop taking things on a case by case basis.

So according to the law, here would be too fast for conditions:
Code:
(3) No driver of a vehicle shall fail to decrease the speed of such vehicle from an otherwise lawful speed to a reasonable and prudent speed when a special hazard exists with respect to pedestrians or other traffic or by reason of weather or highway conditions.

And Here would be Careless driving:
Code:
(1) A person who drives a motor vehicle, bicycle, electrical assisted  bicycle, or low-power scooter in a careless and imprudent manner,  without due regard for the width, grade, curves, corners, traffic, and  use of the streets and highways and all other attendant circumstances,  is guilty of careless driving. A person convicted of careless driving of  a bicycle or electrical assisted bicycle shall not be subject to the  provisions of [URL="http://web.lexisnexis.com/research/buttonTFLink?_m=8869596715fac3c58204a404d2ce3c20&_xfercite=%3ccite%20cc%3d%22USA%22%3e%3c%21%5bCDATA%5bC.R.S.%2042-4-1402%5d%5d%3e%3c%2fcite%3e&_butType=4&_butStat=0&_butNum=2&_butInline=1&_butinfo=COCODE%2042-2-127&_fmtstr=FULL&docnum=1&_startdoc=1&wchp=dGLzVzk-zSkAl&_md5=ff203f9a33ee272bee349ca74d8d0f17"]section 42-2-127[/URL].

So if I were to interpret that crap, I would get a too fast for conditions ticket if someone saw me zooming past people. If I wreck on a curve, I would get a careless driving ticket.

I rolled my truck when I was 16. It was in the middle of the night and I couldn't find my insurance card. The trooper chewed my a$$ about the careless driving and wrote me a ticket for no proof of insurance. No doubt because he knew I had to explain this to my parents.

My POV, if LE would have more empathy in situations like this, we would have a better attitude towards them.
 
My POV, if LE would have more empathy in situations like this, we would have a better attitude towards them.

If law enforcement would use some common sense instead of hiding behind "just doing the job" they would garner a LOT more respect.

With just a couple of roads in and out of here we are swamped with cops. In town it is the Marshalls office, pretty easy going bunch, then the county sheriffs, another pretty decent bunch, they write warnings 10:1 by the looks of the police blotter in the paper each week. The CSP.... they get absolutely ZERO respect from me. The TAXPAYERS funded a fairly elaborate passing zone over the last couple of years, complete with wildlife fencing. What does the CSP do? They turn it into their favorite speed trap.

I think we should do it like most of Europe, put the cops in the smallest diesel powered compact, or something like the Chevy Aveo. There is absolutely NO reason they need $50k+ vehicles to write speed and seatbelt tickets all day long.

When you stupid cops figure out who pays your salary, maybe you will treat the public with the respect they deserve for paying it.

There a lots of stories throughout history about what happens to the overbearing tax collectors. I suggest you cops study up a little, you may want to change the way you operate before we reach that point.
 
CO powder... Put your emotional bias aside for just a bit! I get it you don't like like law-enforcement, I have my thoughts on that but that perhaps is a discussion for another time. I will say though, that " us stupid cops" are not very fond of stupid Closed minded citizens such as yourself. I am well aware of who pays my salary, and respect is given when respect is earned. It is a 2 Way Street in all situations and you have no knowledge of me, nor do I have any knowledge of you other than your obvious anti-law-enforcement bias. As for doing research I think you should maybe follow your own advice… City revenue is generated from much more than traffic citations and officers have no control over the final schedule. The fine schedule is dictated by the city Council, and city manager. As far as it being "commission based" my salary does not change based on the number of traffic citations that are written, In fact in my current assignment I do not do any traffic enforcement whatsoever. If you are so unhappy with the way things are keep in mind that city Council as well as county council members as well as your state legislators are all voted into office. Perhaps you should take action somewhere besides behind your keyboard.


As for this post…

No I absolutely was not there nor did I say that the driver was driving too fast. My saying "perhaps a too fast for conditions ticket might've been applicable" was a result of a prior posting by someone else Who questioned why The driver was not possibly ticketed for "too fast for conditions". Although I was not there, I can guarantee you that many other vehicles did travel that same road and did not slide across on coming traffic into the ditch and roll their vehicle. I notice you didn't have much to say reference my second post with regards to the vehicle not only sliding out of control but sliding out of control while crossing oncoming lanes of traffic which potentially could've endangered whoever was driving on the road at the same time of this accident occurred.
 
CO powder... Put your emotional bias aside for just a bit! I get it you don't like like law-enforcement, I have my thoughts on that but that perhaps is a discussion for another time. I will say though, that " us stupid cops" are not very fond of stupid Closed minded citizens such as yourself. I am well aware of who pays my salary, and respect is given when respect is earned. It is a 2 Way Street in all situations and you have no knowledge of me, nor do I have any knowledge of you other than your obvious anti-law-enforcement bias. As for doing research I think you should maybe follow your own advice… City revenue is generated from much more than traffic citations and officers have no control over the final schedule. The fine schedule is dictated by the city Council, and city manager. As far as it being "commission based" my salary does not change based on the number of traffic citations that are written, In fact in my current assignment I do not do any traffic enforcement whatsoever. If you are so unhappy with the way things are keep in mind that city Council as well as county council members as well as your state legislators are all voted into office. Perhaps you should take action somewhere besides behind your keyboard.


As for this post…

No I absolutely was not there nor did I say that the driver was driving too fast. My saying "perhaps a too fast for conditions ticket might've been applicable" was a result of a prior posting by someone else Who questioned why The driver was not possibly ticketed for "too fast for conditions". Although I was not there, I can guarantee you that many other vehicles did travel that same road and did not slide across on coming traffic into the ditch and roll their vehicle. I notice you didn't have much to say reference my second post with regards to the vehicle not only sliding out of control but sliding out of control while crossing oncoming lanes of traffic which potentially could've endangered whoever was driving on the road at the same time of this accident occurred.
 
While I agree mostly with the situations presented here, remember a couple things. Cops are people too and they ffffff up sometimes or use bad judgement, which I'm sure no one else has today.....lol. Big difference is the money you and I cost someone when we make a bad call only indirectly affects others, whereas a ticket is a direct bill, so it stings more, especially at insurance time.
Maybe I'm just lucky in the last 10years or so, because I do not drive any less or any slower than I always have, but I've found that I typically get warnings now for stoopid chit (speeding). Guessing it has to do with finally having a clean driving record and the cops laptop doesn't go on overload when he punches in my DL #(as well as being older, probably more respectful, staffic stops happen at 5am GOING to work, not 5am coming home from who knows where).
I agree, though, giving a guy a ticket who hurt nothing but his pride and vehicle(s) will have no effect on that driver compared to the incident itself. It's kinda like kicking him in the nutz after he's down!
 
CO powder... Put your emotional bias aside for just a bit! I get it you don't like like law-enforcement, I have my thoughts on that but that perhaps is a discussion for another time. I will say though, that " us stupid cops" are not very fond of stupid Closed minded citizens such as yourself. I am well aware of who pays my salary, and respect is given when respect is earned.

I do not care who you are fond of, and I do not see where cops have ever tried to earn my respect. So is it the chicken or the egg?

I would LOVE to hear your thoughts on my disdain for law enforcement. Since I have never been arrested and haven't had a traffic ticket in over ten years I suspect your theory on me just changed...

I find most cops to be bullies, completely disrespectful of the citizens rights. I think it is the cops attitude that causes their job to be what it is. If you find it to be a challenging job, it is probably because you make it such.

It is a 2 Way Street in all situations and you have no knowledge of me, nor do I have any knowledge of you other than your obvious anti-law-enforcement bias. As for doing research I think you should maybe follow your own advice…
It is NOT a two way street, not even close. Can I stop you for driving poorly and issue a ticket? Um NO! I see it all the time but we both know it is pointless for me to complain.

City revenue is generated from much more than traffic citations and officers have no control over the final schedule. The fine schedule is dictated by the city Council, and city manager. As far as it being "commission based" my salary does not change based on the number of traffic citations that are written, In fact in my current assignment I do not do any traffic enforcement whatsoever. If you are so unhappy with the way things are keep in mind that city Council as well as county council members as well as your state legislators are all voted into office. Perhaps you should take action somewhere besides behind your keyboard.
Just like a good cop is taught to assume.... You tell me that you don't know anything about me yet now you assume I do not DO anything but complain on my keyboard. As a regular figure at city council meetings for the last decade or so, it appears you made yet another false assumption.

Now I understand that your 3-6 months of training made you a racecar driver, a marksman, a lawyer, a doctor, a psychologist among many other skills. The funny thing is, each of those individually typically require years of training, more than 99% of cops ever receive. Yet as a society we like to perpetuate the myth that cops actually are the good guys but the truth is a bit different. Self serving egomaniacs probably describes most of your department.

Explain to me why I should respect you? We both know that speed is rarely the cause of accidents, we know that wearing your seatbelt can be as dangerous as not wearing it depending on the crash. I think you and your ilk promote this false notion that anything in life is safe and that you have the power to MAKE it safe. As far as I am concerned most of your job is based on a false premise and takes advantage of peoples unfounded fears.

I still get a kick out of this notion that cops do not benefit from the revenues they collect. The more tickets you write, the more money in the coffers, the better salary, benefits and equipment the government entity can provide correct? You REALLY don't see the correlation or, you really do not want to see it?

As for this post…

No I absolutely was not there nor did I say that the driver was driving too fast. My saying "perhaps a too fast for conditions ticket might've been applicable" was a result of a prior posting by someone else Who questioned why The driver was not possibly ticketed for "too fast for conditions". Although I was not there, I can guarantee you that many other vehicles did travel that same road and did not slide across on coming traffic into the ditch and roll their vehicle. I notice you didn't have much to say reference my second post with regards to the vehicle not only sliding out of control but sliding out of control while crossing oncoming lanes of traffic which potentially could've endangered whoever was driving on the road at the same time of this accident occurred.
...and a meteor could fall from the sky killing the worlds population tomorrow. We better start writing tickets to God then for endangering our lives because, of course, that will teach him a lesson.

Once you accept that you are a person, just like the rest of us, doing a job, rather than tripping on the power given you, maybe we could develop some mutual respect. It sure looks to me like the cops love putting the beat down on the citizenry. Your profession has completely lost sight of what protect and serve is supposed to look like.
 
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I am not a fan of cops. There should be a test to weed out some. I guess they are dealing with different stuff these days but cops are different than they used to be. After looking at the pictures, there is more to the story. Usually when there is an accident it is mandatory they write a ticket. I would've preferred a too fast for conditions but it is obvious your buddy was driving too fast and could've caused a head on.
 
With freedom, comes responsibility!


We as a society have become too complacent and lazy to be responsible. Thus the system gets more powerful.


So really with regards to Cops, it's a hate the game, not the player situation for me.


Remember when a cop would follow you home when you were too drunk to drive, or take you to the station and have your parents come get you. Dump out a kids weed sack or pour out their beer so they wouldn't end up with a record. Etc. etc.


5 O is right about getting involved if you don't like it. My crappy little county went from every town having Police, plus a Sheriff. To a consolidated County with just a Sheriff department. Took a decade or more and a Sheriff change, but there's a real sense of community with regards to our Sheriff's department.


And if you don't want to get involved, DON'T GET CAUGHT!:face-icon-small-ton
 
You win CO powder… The broad brush you have painted with has convinced me, we are all mindless drones! We are all a bunch of jackbooted thugs whom are doing our best to harm the average everyday citizen... Especially citizens like this gentlemen who posted on the Black Hills form, someone who understand accountability!

Good on ya, sdsnocop for bringing this up. While some may choose to not alter their current wrap, at least everyone can be aware of it when applying wraps in the future and ensure they accommodate viewing the vin. It's really for a persons own good. Less of a pain when vin needs to be checked at a stop, easier to deal with if your sled is stolen, etc.

In West Yellowstone last weekend, a sled was stolen and so at the checkpoint, the rangers were checking vins of sleds that matched the year/make/model. Covering the vin makes the work, and length of the stop, associated with such a check much longer and more of a pain for everyone.

Another tip...pass the personality test. Those guys are doing their jobs and if you get a ticket, it's because YOU did something wrong; not them. Be upset with yourself. True, you may occasionally run into law enforcement/ranger that is a jerk, but some of us are jerks, too. Ha. It's luck of the draw when dealing with humans. Don't make your life worse by being anything less than courteous and then moving on. Most are really great guys and gals.

My deceased father put it in perspective for me long ago. His comment was around a speeding ticket in a vehicle when I was a kid, but translates to all stops. The jist of it was this..."There is nothing to be upset about when you choose to break the law and then get caught and fined. You chose to do it so happily accept the penalty for your choice and move on. That was the cost of your choice". I learned a lot more from that comment then from the ticket itself.

As with most laws (there are a few screwball exceptions), this law is to protect you and is a reasonable expectation. If sledders make it the norm for a vin to not be readable then what expectation could we have regarding getting our stolen sled or parts back or catching the thief so they can be stopped from stealing someone elses sled.

At least now we will all think about it and can accommodate this on the next wrap whether one lives in SD or another state. Good thread.
 
You win CO powder… The broad brush you have painted with has convinced me, we are all mindless drones! We are all a bunch of jackbooted thugs whom are doing our best to harm the average everyday citizen... Especially citizens like this gentlemen who posted on the Black Hills form, someone who understand accountability!

Nice COP OUT:)

You may not have noticed but, this thread was much more heavily populated with fans of my views over yours. Since YOU WORK FOR US, maybe this is an opportunity to listen and act.

Do you really want to take the position that these opinions are not earned or valid?

I think everybody knows that by this point in our country's history we have implemented thousands of really dumb laws. Choosing to enforce them because they are there and produce revenue makes you part of the problem. When it eventually goes too far, which history dictates will happen on our course, do you want to be the guy that sold out his neighbors?

Sure there are some decent cops. You guys need to get together and weed out the bad ones pretty quickly here or yourself become part of the problem.

You have a PR problem for a reason. The first step is to acknowledge it.
 
Good thing I did not choose my profession, nor come to this website with the hope of making fans so I think I Will sleep just fine tonight knowing many people don't like law-enforcement.

And contrary to your belief I do not "work for you". While I don't agree with your attitude of "working for you" or " you paying my salary" I do make it a point to see that I handle each and every person I deal with, fair and equally and I will acknowledge that the salary of EACH city employee is generated via tax, ALL taxes not just traffic citations.... That being said my chief is not an elected official as a sheriff is. I work for a municipal gov't, in doing so I took an oath to enforce all laws equally. Laws I personally agree with and the ones I don't and enforce them equally to everyone people I agree with and those I don't. I don't get to choose what law I enforce or who I enforce it to. If you want law enforcement that "works for you" and doesn't enforce laws you don't like move to Mexico that is the exact corrupt gov't and and corrupt law enforcement you'll get.

Once again if anyone has an issue with laws, the associated fines, etc... Take it up with your elected official City/county/state they are your elected representatives that truly "work for you" they are your elected official that every law and associated fine has to be approved by.
 
Good thing I did not choose my profession, nor come to this website with the hope of making fans so I think I Will sleep just fine tonight knowing many people don't like law-enforcement.

And contrary to your belief I do not "work for you". While I don't agree with your attitude of "working for you" or " you paying my salary" I do make it a point to see that I handle each and every person I deal with, fair and equally and I will acknowledge that the salary of EACH city employee is generated via tax, ALL taxes not just traffic citations.... That being said my chief is not an elected official as a sheriff is. I work for a municipal gov't, in doing so I took an oath to enforce all laws equally. Laws I personally agree with and the ones I don't and enforce them equally to everyone people I agree with and those I don't. I don't get to choose what law I enforce or who I enforce it to. If you want law enforcement that "works for you" and doesn't enforce laws you don't like move to Mexico that is the exact corrupt gov't and and corrupt law enforcement you'll get.

Once again if anyone has an issue with laws, the associated fines, etc... Take it up with your elected official City/county/state they are your elected representatives that truly "work for you" they are your elected official that every law and associated fine has to be approved by.


Thank you sir, you just proved to me that you are just like all the rest. You hide behind a badge so you can be a bully.

You DO work for the people who pay the taxes. I know you clowns like to retort that you pay taxes too. With what, tax money paid to you. Better start showing more respect to those that provide your salary. That would be all non-government employees.

I just love your high horse attitude... HS diploma, 15 weeks of cop school and just look how well versed you are in the party line. I predict you will someday regret the choice you have made to trust government. If you think the entity that employs you is not incredibly corrupt, you are only kidding yourself.

If your statement above doesn't qualify you for mindless robot, or jackbooted thug, I don't know what does. Lord help us when common sense finally escapes the majority of men...

Just as n FYI, the wussy cops in my town were whining about having to put in just 40 hrs a week. The wanted the same pay but only 32 hrs a week and retain full benefits. I was at the council meeting, you can bet they heard my opinion. Common sense prevailed, the cops have to put in 40 hrs.

Problem is, fighting the abuses of power would be a full time job, and it wouldn't pay a dime. That is how we progressively lose rights, it is done in courtrooms where nobody gets to vote and it is called a precedent. These are used to further violate citizens rights on a daily basis until we become numb to it. At some point, the people wake up. You will have positioned yourself in opposition to the people. Being self righteous about it will not save you. Hiding behind poorly conceived laws to violate what used to be basic freedoms is a bad plan in my estimation. It appears we disagree.
 
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Indeed we disagree. I support my argument with facts... I don't make the laws but I did take an oath to enforce them all equally to everyone. You support your argument by resorting to name calling, and your attempts at personal attacks reference your incorrect assumption of my education.


Like I said CO powder you win! I'll anxiously await your response, perhaps it will be additional name calling to ensure you get the last word....
 
There are dirty/ slash bad cops in every town. There are also "good" ones in every town. The problem is all the good ones know of, and about, the bad ones, and generally do nothing about them. In my mind that also makes them bad cops.
 
Indeed we disagree. I support my argument with facts... I don't make the laws but I did take an oath to enforce them all equally to everyone. You support your argument by resorting to name calling, and your attempts at personal attacks reference your incorrect assumption of my education.


Like I said CO powder you win! I'll anxiously await your response, perhaps it will be additional name calling to ensure you get the last word....


You are a public servant. You are paid by the non governmental, working public, via taxes. You appear to have no respect for that fact nor the people that provide your employment. You want to hide behind the municipality that signs your checks? Ummm, those people are all on the public dole as well. That makes you part of the problem. If you were better educated, you would be able to see this without my having to use so much sarcasm. I just thought it might be part of our language you might understand better...

I didn't want to disappoint you, so there are some additional insults :)
 
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