Hatch, is that premixed or metered through a pump ?... If your metering through a pump im curious to know how much oil your going through each ride ? 16 OZ, 24 OZ , 32 OZ ?
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So what’s the difference in turbo kits out there?
- Thread starter hatchers
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TurboM700
Well-known member
JSCC
I think you kind of answered your own questions. One of the reason I think a injected sled smokes way more then a non injected sled (oil). Is that a oil injected sled is just pucking oil out the side of the case right after the reeds. It leaving the fuel to pick it up and mix with it for maybe an inch before it goes into the crank. A non oil injected sled already has it mix 100% with the gas and it goes right into the motor. I think this make sense.
I'm proplay going to get flamed by the twisted crue on here for this but anyways.
First I would like to say IF I was buying a kit it would by a Twisted kit. Shain seems like a stand up guy and from the couple of dealing I had with other turbo vendors they were doing there best to screw me. Also I like supporting smaller company and not the big guys.
One thing that I dislike about the twisted kits is its charge tube mostly the airbox. I have made a couple different style airbox and I have found on the dyno (hp) and time before it makes boost. That twisted desgin all though its simple and clean takes the most pounds of boost to make the same horsepower and had a longer spool time. Remember boost in it self is a measure of restriction. Also from what I have found you are better off feeding air straight in the throttle bodys instead of on the side creates alot less turblance in the system and takes less pressure to do so.
Thats my 2 cents.
Mike
I think you kind of answered your own questions. One of the reason I think a injected sled smokes way more then a non injected sled (oil). Is that a oil injected sled is just pucking oil out the side of the case right after the reeds. It leaving the fuel to pick it up and mix with it for maybe an inch before it goes into the crank. A non oil injected sled already has it mix 100% with the gas and it goes right into the motor. I think this make sense.
I'm proplay going to get flamed by the twisted crue on here for this but anyways.
First I would like to say IF I was buying a kit it would by a Twisted kit. Shain seems like a stand up guy and from the couple of dealing I had with other turbo vendors they were doing there best to screw me. Also I like supporting smaller company and not the big guys.
One thing that I dislike about the twisted kits is its charge tube mostly the airbox. I have made a couple different style airbox and I have found on the dyno (hp) and time before it makes boost. That twisted desgin all though its simple and clean takes the most pounds of boost to make the same horsepower and had a longer spool time. Remember boost in it self is a measure of restriction. Also from what I have found you are better off feeding air straight in the throttle bodys instead of on the side creates alot less turblance in the system and takes less pressure to do so.
Thats my 2 cents.
Mike
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JSCC
Well-known member
I did, I was being redundant for arguments sake.
As far as the rest of your post, I concur. There is a reason for every turbo application out there, be it cars, trucks, boats, sleds, you name it, there is aftermarket parts out to help straighten the flow, or smooth the flow of air through the system. Same reason we polish the exhaust side so well.
I didnt know anyone did some dyno testing, so that is great information.
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product tester
Well-known member
mike did you also test going in the top like ovs and bd ?I would think it would be the same as the side right as for the flow coming straight in ya, but on the m the charge tube is way long if ya go that way and has to bends ,A two stroke turbo good once3 told me every time you make a 90 bend its like 3 feet of straight pipe so I would have to say on a two stroke m sled the shortest charge tube would be better no matter where it comes in . I have had sleds with that style of in take and with intercoolers I use the one that works best for me on the snow and not what worked best on the dyno...
Maybe snow star will post a pic of our new shorter straighter charge tube.
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TurboM700
Well-known member
I did try the one like bd and OVS use not as much of a difference but its noticable. I personally use one that feeds from the front of the carbs/throttle bodys had a little longer charge tube but I gaind hp and spooled faster. I also use piping to make my charge box instead of square corners and sheet alu.
Let me says this. These are just numbers it would never be notice in the long run or someone that does not know much about turbos and air flow.
Shain: You build a dam good kit and like I have said before I would buy your kit if I could not make my own.
Mike
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RKT
Well-known member
Correct, if you look a few posts back (at my last post), you can see that I got my head out of its daze and corrected my statements on the oil injection..
Having only a few hours sleep, apparently effects the ole' brain function. LOL
But as far as oil ratio... less oil is NEVER a good thing IMO..
Kelsey
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JHG
Well-known member
Correct, if you look a few posts back (at my last post), you can see that I got my head out of its daze and corrected my statements on the oil injection..
Having only a few hours sleep, apparently effects the ole' brain function. LOL
But as far as oil ratio... less oil is NEVER a good thing IMO..
Kelsey
Yeah I saw it, I actually was posting my last statement as you were posting that you we're talking about carbs. It's all good.
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hatchers
Well-known member
Understand I work with with PSI/FLOW in my everyday job when im not fighting crime at night as a super hero, and completely understand what you are talking about…but
Yes flow goes down and pressure goes up in the area of a bend (90 degrees or whatever)…this is a very basic theory in gas pipe applications. But this loss/gain or however you want to look at it is very minimal and even more minimal in a small engine application. I typically see 1% drop in flow and 3% raise in pressure in a 42” 90 degree pipe that has 1200PSI…I can only imagine the loss/gain would be somewhat proportion in smaller ID pipe with less pressure. The common talk of loss/gain in bends are extremely over rated and typically found in publications from turbo and gas turbine manufactures. A gas turbine pushing 30K HP has a huge loss when you lower flow by 1%...this can cost a company 10-50K on one turbo/turbine. It’s also optimal to take pressure measurements at 3X the pipe ID away from any bend and closer to its discharge or suction side.....but once again, this is way over rated when your looking at 5-15PSI
Calculating flow is something you don’t see the turbo guys doing, because its also over rated on these small engine applications…flow is sometimes more important then pressure readings. A guy can simply install a orifice plate about 80ish% of the Pipe ID and take a differential pressure reading across this orifice that and calculate flow….i know, i know…i taking this lawn mower turbo stuff a bit too far. At the end of the day, boost is far to fun and all kits rock….keep pushing forward guys!
On the topic of lag or overcoming spool up or whatever you wish to phase it…it’s simple really. The compressor wheel is fixed, bigger compressors need more time (more compressor RPM) to make differential pressure (or think of it as more discharge then suction)….and the volume of area in-between the discharge of the turbo compressor and the throttle bodies is the other fixed area for getting up to boost levels…consider filling a 1 gallon tank of water as opposed to filling a two gallon tank of water...the 1 gallon tank will fill up quicker with the supply of water to both tanks is the same, I know this seems like some kindergarten talk, but it really is that simple
Compressors – a variable vane compressor would be ideal…but it’s too expensive and rotors with moving parts tend to last less than stationary rotors.
Would the twisted kit be more ideal (closer to perfect) if it had an airbox where the charge tube was more in-line with flow?…sure it would be, but one would think the pressure of boost will better help the pressures in the airbox equalize the pressures found in varius areas of the airbox....once again, this is a bit over rated.
Understand the pressures in the charge tube are defused in the larger volume airbox…so pressure will go down a bit and airbox will act as an air defuser
Keep in mind, all the REVs/RT/XP I owned all have a similar airbox to what the twisted kit has….so this issue should be considered mostly over rated.
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hatchers
Well-known member
back to the topic,
how did the water to air heat exchanger work on the OVS kit?....has anyone else tried this?...what about running the comple turbo just outside the hood and piping everything back inside?...bet that would keep the compressor cooler, but what effectr would this have on the turbine wheeel? would a colder turbine wheel effect the pipe temps?
how did the water to air heat exchanger work on the OVS kit?....has anyone else tried this?...what about running the comple turbo just outside the hood and piping everything back inside?...bet that would keep the compressor cooler, but what effectr would this have on the turbine wheeel? would a colder turbine wheel effect the pipe temps?
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TurboM700
Well-known member
Hatcher I agree with you that why I said you wouldn't notice it much with the piping the biggest thing you will notice it in is the charge box desgin. I have software at work that I have run these different manifolds thru to see how they flow. Having a "header" sytle manfoild flows way more efficent then a "log" style manfold. This is neither good or bad I dont think you will see a difference.
Carry on.
Mike
Also I will tell you how the water to air heat exchanger works when I win brads sled
Carry on.
Mike
Also I will tell you how the water to air heat exchanger works when I win brads sled
Snow & Ice would have a huge effect on the compressor outside hatch.... The once available "lightning kit" for the Apex had the same thought so he mounted the turbo almost in the nose cone in an attempt to cool and limit the length of the charge tube to the intercooler/carb rack.... The concept worked except for the snow & ice.
Another concept would be to build a custom exhaust &dump outlet and than center the turbo compressor in front of the custom fuel tank and inline with the carb rack. While the air intake would extend out just in front of the riser bar.
On deep days keeping a consistant air supply to the turbo is key and that is tuff to do under the hood on deep days.
OT
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hatchers
Well-known member
im guessing you are talking about this kit running the intake sock on the outside, yes that would be silly.....im talking about running the intake back under the hood as it should be, deep POW is what we live for, boggin in deep powder will make a man walk home and leave his sled on the hill
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JSCC
Well-known member
I will have one on my sled this year. Not like Brads, but one nonetheless. I will let you know later, lol!
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JSCC
Well-known member
As far as bends, I know in the HVAC world they calculate that into footage gain as well. So I agree with Shain the amount of bends will effect performance.
It's too bad someone dont build a charge tube the splits directly to both Throttle bodies, and rid the air box all together.....?
It's too bad someone dont build a charge tube the splits directly to both Throttle bodies, and rid the air box all together.....?
This was one of my original thoughts with our XP turbo kits. I was told it was a good idea, but a bad application.
Dave
Dave
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TurboM700
Well-known member
I do and it works very well. After all my testing and 6 different manifold later that is what I came up with.
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JSCC
Well-known member
Very nice. Are you willing to post a pic?
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TurboM700
Well-known member
I'll get one hopefully this weekend I need to get up the the cabin to take a pic. I have a cad soild model that i will post here shortly. Just need to find it
ok found it. if the pic doesnt work ill give you the link to photbucket
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg280/Turbom700/maniflod.jpg
ok found it. if the pic doesnt work ill give you the link to photbucket
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg280/Turbom700/maniflod.jpg
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