So what’s the difference in turbo kits out there?

[product tester]

yes it is the only kit I know of that requires this. That is the great thing about this country you can form your own theroys and you still dont go to jail. I do this because it is what has been the most dependable for me last year I rode 120 days Had 60 kits on the snow didnt have one turbo go down due to loss of pistions or oil the only one I lost was on my 1200 the end of the pipe broke off and went through the turbo. I havent had only a hand full of problems with all of them on the snow.

 

[KAWGRN]

Now lets really open a can of worms and look at garrett VS aero?? I have experience on both now!!! I am always,, always the only person on earth to have ever had that failure ,,, yea right !!!!!

 

[Vertical-Extreme]

Now lets really open a can of worms and look at garrett VS aero?? I have experience on both now!!! I am always,, always the only person on earth to have ever had that failure ,,, yea right !!!!!

I think that deserves its own thread, lets keep this on to compairing the different kits and the Q & A

 

[KAWGRN]

what about HMS kits or FTX kits they use aeros????

 

[Original OT]

Garrett VS Aero...Sounds like a brawl.

OT

 

[ccpowder]

Oiling is interesting. Current injection system puts oil into the intake path where it is atomized with the fuel. The amount of oil does change with the throttle position. I believe Doo uses no oil at idle. Thats being said, lets say the ratio is 40:1 at WOT. Not all 1 part of oil is being used to oil the moving parts. The 40:1 ratio blows through the motor and some part (not sure what it is) of the oil is used for lubrication and the rest is burnt. So, here is the question:

What percent of the 1 part of oil from the 40:1 gas/oil ratio is being used for lubrication?

What percent of the 1 part of oil from the 80:1 or 120:1 gas/oil ratio is being used for lubrication??

 

[Original OT]

CC, Since 2 stroke oil is designed 2 lubricate/burn during the combustion cycle.......

10 gal. of fuel @ 40:1 = 32oz of oil
10 gal. of fuel @ 80:1 = 62oz of oil
10 gal. of fuel @ 120:1= 94 oz of fuel

On a deep powder day the average 2 stroke will go 50 to 60 miles under the load ?

On a trail ride with the family the average 2 stroke can travel 100 miles depending on throttle position.

HELP CC , i can't do the math any further !!!

OT

 

[snowmanx]

In theory, it would seem that you would have to premix, and that would be better, if you didn't, then you would have engine siezures.

However, if TT is the only one that premixes, and ALL the others use the stock injection system, then one would think that there would be a lot of engine problems related to lack of lubrication.

However, I have not personally heard that this is even an issue.

Theory not jiving with experience?

I have an OVS system, no mixing.

My mitshubishi cat, I mix...I don't know, interesting though.

 

[Vertical-Extreme]

Is the oil pump mechanical or electric? if it is electric does anyone know how much power it draws?

 

[gus bohne]

I have yet to see an oil related failure thank god in either method.

Though I must say I subscribe to the premix recipe for my customers.

I did ride a full 1000 mile season on my rxL 650 turbo in 91 and no oil issues.
9 psi though......
Good thread ..

Gus

 

[JSCC]

Is the oil pump mechanical or electric? if it is electric does anyone know how much power it draws?

They are mechanical.

Here is another theory. I have actually used this, and have not lost an engine. i do not however use it on snowmobiles.
A machine that is premixed, is premixed at the ratio that is needed for high RPM. Since the machine is not used at full throttle for vary long, say 25%, you can cut your oil use by as much as 75%. Oil is heavy, and will remain in the bottom of the crank case, to a point. As you draw up the rpms, the added turbulence in the crank case brings up the unused oil and consumes it.
What say you?

 

[JSCC]

yes it is the only kit I know of that requires this. That is the great thing about this country you can form your own theroys and you still dont go to jail. I do this because it is what has been the most dependable for me last year I rode 120 days Had 60 kits on the snow didnt have one turbo go down due to loss of pistions or oil the only one I lost was on my 1200 the end of the pipe broke off and went through the turbo. I havent had only a hand full of problems with all of them on the snow.

I agree, this says something. However, how many engines from other kits have gone down do to lack of lubrication. I bet very few to any.

 

[JSCC]

I see what your saying but your introducing 2-3 times the fuel into the motor. There for your oil is being thinned down 2-3 times then normal. It has nothing to do with what the motor takes for rpm its a simple ration. If you mix your gas 50-1 then you mix it 150-1 the motor parts are going to see 3 times less fuel with the 150-1. I hope this makes sense. One thing I also notice on mine when it was mixed is it cleaned up the bottom end and make it much more responsive.

Some time when I have a few extra hours. Im going to take my stock oil pump and hook it up to a servo and see what the ration this thing will put out at different rpm. I'm thinking its know where near as accurate as we think for (50-1) or what ever the number may be.

that my 2 cents

Mike

I have to run off to the Pooraide, I will think about this and get back to you later....
Nice post though. I am interested in the oil pump test.

 

[ccpowder]

CC, Since 2 stroke oil is designed 2 lubricate/burn during the combustion cycle.......

10 gal. of fuel @ 40:1 = 32oz of oil
10 gal. of fuel @ 80:1 = 62oz of oil
10 gal. of fuel @ 120:1= 94 oz of fuel

On a deep powder day the average 2 stroke will go 50 to 60 miles under the load ?

On a trail ride with the family the average 2 stroke can travel 100 miles depending on throttle position.

HELP CC , i can't do the math any further !!!

OT

I know how much oil is used, what I want to know is what percent of that oil used is actually used for lubrication?? I am sure no one here thinks that 100% of the oil that goes through a 2 stoke motor is used for lubrication, right?? Lots of waste!!

 

[TurboM700]

I think one thing I will find is that these oil pump from like 3/4 to full throttle are more like 20-1 or less. There for if we are adding up to 3 times the fuel at 3/4 throttle we are really 60-1 which in my guess is a safe number. Didnt scamoil (amsoil) say you can mix there stuff 100:1.

One other point to take in account. Is these M dont have the best elec system. And having one less pump to pull amps from may help the system live. When I had my Tm7 I could not run a elec oil pump has I didn't have the power. Heck I didnt have the power for a high volume pump.

I have a pump that I'm doing some testing with that runs off the mag side that's both a fuel pump and oil pump that's all mechanical. Also has a very stable pressure range. On thing boondockers had issues with with there first kits.

Mike

 

[Lucky Lyle]

CC, Since 2 stroke oil is designed 2 lubricate/burn during the combustion cycle.......

10 gal. of fuel @ 40:1 = 32oz of oil
10 gal. of fuel @ 80:1 = 62oz of oil
10 gal. of fuel @ 120:1= 94 oz of fuel

On a deep powder day the average 2 stroke will go 50 to 60 miles under the load ?

On a trail ride with the family the average 2 stroke can travel 100 miles depending on throttle position.

HELP CC , i can't do the math any further !!!

OT

10 gal. of fuel @80 to 1 = 16 oz of oil not 62
10 gal. of fuel @120 to 1=94 oz of fuel?????????????? that must be an imperial gal.
ya you got it right.... ha ha ha ha ha ha
10 gal of fuel @120 to 1 =11 oz oil

 

[JHG]

The oil pump is not only used to lube the cylinders, remember the bearings. Not all of the oil in the 40:1 mix is needed for the cylinder lube so the increased fuel on boost will lean out the mix into the cylinders but not to the bearings. The cylinders could most likely survive on much less oil than 40:1. PT, are you drilling the cases on your oil delete? I haven't done an oil delete on my sled because I worry about getting enough oil to the crank bearings.

I didn't come up with this on my own but I talked to someone that knows a lot more about it than I do and this was their explanation.

 

[Original OT]

Something to compare with,,, 2 stroke do not have that many parts to oil when compared to the 4 strokes.

No cam, No cam chain, No rockers and No valve guides to worry about.

OT

 

[hatchers]

Something to compare with,,, 2 stroke do not have that many parts to oil when compared to the 4 strokes.

No cam, No cam chain, No rockers and No valve guides to worry about.

OT

OT, i will ask nicely that you keep this thread on topic and avoid starting trouble

regards,

 

[JSCC]

I see what your saying but your introducing 2-3 times the fuel into the motor. There for your oil is being thinned down 2-3 times then normal. It has nothing to do with what the motor takes for rpm its a simple ration. If you mix your gas 50-1 then you mix it 150-1 the motor parts are going to see 3 times less fuel with the 150-1. I hope this makes sense. One thing I also notice on mine when it was mixed is it cleaned up the bottom end and make it much more responsive.

Some time when I have a few extra hours. Im going to take my stock oil pump and hook it up to a servo and see what the ration this thing will put out at different rpm. I'm thinking its know where near as accurate as we think for (50-1) or what ever the number may be.

that my 2 cents

Mike

Alright, here is what I think. The "ratio" that a manufacturer specs, is a safety net ratio at there highest load and rpm. Rpm's do make the most important factor in discussing oiling needs. As engines speed up, they require more lubrication, or lubricating properties, to combat friction. No engine needs the same amount of lubrication at 500 rpm as they do at 8500 rpm. This is why oil pumps are ran by one: the crank, and two: by throttle position.
The said "ratio" is the easiest way of making sure you have the lubricating properties you need to keep heat and friction at bay. This is also why using a better oil can make an engine last longer. More of the same oil would just be burnt, or spent through the exhaust.
Now I am no engineer, but I can figure that every sled I have bought new, which is a handful, use way to much oil. And the reason I figure this is; On the sleds that I premix to 40-1, they spend very little smoke, if any. But every new machine I have owned smoked like crazy from the dealer. Even after adjusting my pumps back to a ratio determined by fill ups, they still smoked at certain occasions far more than the premix sleds.

Sorry Hatchers, I think I have officially hyjacked your thread....