So what’s the difference in turbo kits out there?

[hatchers]

On the oil topic,

I don’t know enough about 2 stroke engines to say much of anything.....other then, one would think oil should be metered proportionally to the flow/pressure of fuel consumption….yes?

Its also clear the stock oil pump has a cam/meter cable thingy that meters the oil injection proportional to throttle position.

I need to really read up on small engine applications to the level of what a design type engineer would know.

I’m also not clear on what lubricating levels/pressures/flows are needed for the crank/bearings/seals….are the bearing oil bath? Are the seals lab seals? Like I said before, its best to do some research…

At the end of the day, you don’t see threads about lack of oil on the bigger boost 2 stoke sleds also….so maybe its not that big of a deal…..but I would put money on a premix option being more ideal

 

[craveboost]

hatchers, what has been the pros, cons to the kits you have run? did you install your kit or did you have dale or shain?

 

[hatchers]

I can figure that every sled I have bought new, which is a handful, use way to much oil. And the reason I figure this is; On the sleds that I premix to 40-1, they spend very little smoke, if any. But every new machine I have owned smoked like crazy from the dealer. Even after adjusting my pumps back to a ratio determined by fill ups, they still smoked at certain occasions far more than the premix sleds.

Sorry Hatchers, I think I have officially hyjacked your thread....

My thoughts exactly…...generally more oil should be more safe, but im guessing too much oil can also add to unburned fuel that can actually burn later in the combustion process (or slightly after the boom) and cause unwanted heat when the piston is at a undesirable location in the stroke….or this is the way a gas turbine works, im only guessing here and still have little to offer for 2 stroke applications.

I’m stoked about learning more as we all should be, sure would be nice if a mechanical type engineer could chime in with some hard facts…..any here???

no worries JSCC, you make a valid point

 

[winter brew]

another .02.....no engine ever failed from too much oil. Dyno tests show power gains all the way to 16:1 before the curve changed direction. I know a couple very competitive guys who mix 20:1 pennzoil just for this reason, but I'll stay with 32-40:1, it's a good compromise and your clothes don't stink as bad after a ride.

 

[hatchers]

hatchers, what has been the pros, cons to the kits you have run? did you install your kit or did you have dale or shain?

I pretty much answered all that in my initial post. The BD I had last year was pre-installed by Power House in Orem Utah, im installing the Twisted kit myself……PM me if you have any other questions.

I will say all kits are very similar these days except for a few options, nor do i believe any kit sucks, they are all too close to compare what kit will get you up the hill quicker….that takes tuning and more money, customer service needs to improve across the board, ....I went with the twisted kit as it should be more conducer friendly and the customer service should land Shane in the mental ward.
And understand, I will report back with nothing but facts or this kit and how I compare it to others, im not here to make or keep friends as real friends should respect your thoughts be it good or bad.

Ok ill be truthful, I could care less what kit makes it up a hill faster….but the best boondocker friendly kit is what im looking for. Coupled with some easier maintenance and less part failure….its easy to see how easier it will be to change reeds on the twisted kit, this is another huge reason im running this kit this year, ask around changing reeds is a pain in the butt on other kits, but some respectable folks are saying the BD intercooler with a fan is giving the reeds much longer life as it should.

 

[RKT]

My thoughts exactly…...generally more oil should be more safe, but im guessing too much oil can also add to unburned fuel that can actually burn later in the combustion process (or slightly after the boom) and cause unwanted heat when the piston is at a undesirable location in the stroke….or this is the way a gas turbine works, im only guessing here and still have little to offer for 2 stroke applications.

I’m stoked about learning more as we all should be, sure would be nice if a mechanical type engineer could chime in with some hard facts…..any here???

no worries JSCC, you make a valid point

Most of the oil is NOT burnt during the combustion process.. It does not vaporize but rather adheres to the piston surfaces and forms a boundry layer that keeps friction down.. Food for thought... You can not seize ANY engine unless the oil layer fails...So, the ability of this layer to stay strong is vital to engine life.

Excess oil will not create too much unwanted heat in the engine.. Too much oil can cause more ignition misfires than are already present. This is about the only downfall to running an overly rich oil mxture. Many believe that high oil ratios cause bogs or power losses.. But, the SAE papers tell otherwise. I run all my engines at 24:1.

There are many SAE papers you can purchase that speak directly to what oil ratios do what in terms of power and heat in a 2 stroke engine... It is surprising to find out where the best ratio is really at...

As for more oil required with more boost... The oil is in a homogeneous mixture with the fuel and it is injected/mixed with the fuel at the FUEL PUMP.. So, I am with JSCC on this one.. the oil ratio does not change with boost because the oil is mixed/injected at the fuel pump.
I guess if any of the turbo systems, in question, pull a seperate fuel pump BEFORE the primary fuel pump.. then, one would need to get some oil in those lines because they would be carrying raw fuel and this would be disasterous.. But all the systems I have seen, pull the added fuel from the primary fuel pump.

But, IMO, the more oil the better and under booost you need all the protection you can get and extra oil would be a very good idea.. So, Twisted's premix method is a good idea..

Kelsey

 

[hatchers]

Most the oil ratio does not change with boost because the oil is mixed/injected at the fuel pump.
I guess if any of the turbo systems, in question, pull a seperate fuel pump BEFORE the primary fuel pump.. then, one would need to get some oil in those lines because they would be carrying raw fuel and this would be disasterous.. But all the systems I have seen, pull the added fuel from the primary fuel pump.

Kelsey

I think you are missing the point…we are talking about a stock oil injection pump running with a turbo that consumes more fuel on boost…so how does the engine driven stock oil pump inject more or proportional to the extra fuel consumption on boost.

I’m guessing the stock oil pump is maxed out on whatever it pumps in the engine when the throttle is completely open…right? Am I missing something?

What your are talking about is the premix option, correct?

 

[RKT]

I think you are missing the point…we are talking about a stock oil injection pump running with a turbo that consumes more fuel on boost…so how does the engine driven stock oil pump inject more or proportional to the extra fuel consumption on boost.

I’m guessing the stock oil pump is maxed out on whatever it pumps in the engine when the throttle is completely open…right? Am I missing something?

What your are talking about is the premix option, correct?

The stock oil pump is FAR from maxed out at WOT... far from it..

The oil pump is throttle controlled.. It is calibrated to inject a specific amount of oil at various throttle positions.. so, say, for this example, the WOT ratio is 40:1.. So, the proper amount of oil for a 40:1 ratio is injected into the fuel pump..
When ANY AND ALL FUEL LEAVES the fuel pump at WOT, it is at a 40:1 ratio.. So, ANY and ALL FUEL that is fed to the engine is ALWAYS at this 40:1 ratio at WOT... So, whether you are adding an ounce or a gallon of fuel via injectors (boost or no boost).. the fuel will always be premixed at the proper fuel/oil ratio..It does not change because it is injected at the fuel pump..

With the pre-mix option.. You will always be at the set ratio you premixed at.. With the injection method, this ratio varies based on throttle position...


Kelsey

 

[RKT]

The stock oil pump is FAR from maxed out at WOT... far from it..

The oil pump is throttle controlled.. It is calibrated to inject a specific amount of oil at various throttle positions.. so, say, for this example, the WOT ratio is 40:1.. So, the proper amount of oil for a 40:1 ratio is injected into the fuel pump..
When ANY AND ALL FUEL LEAVES the fuel pump at WOT, it is at a 40:1 ratio.. So, ANY and ALL FUEL that is fed to the engine is ALWAYS at this 40:1 ratio at WOT... So, whether you are adding an ounce or a gallon of fuel via injectors (boost or no boost).. the fuel will always be premixed at the proper fuel/oil ratio..It does not change because it is injected at the fuel pump..

With the pre-mix option.. You will always be at the set ratio you premixed at.. With the injection method, this ratio varies based on throttle position...


Kelsey

OOPs.. I am thinking about how a carburated injection system works..My Bad.. Sorry...

I will have to think about this oil ratio with a the M series injection system...
sorry, for the confusion...

Kelsey

 

[hatchers]

The stock oil pump is FAR from maxed out at WOT... far from it..

The oil pump is throttle controlled.. It is calibrated to inject a specific amount of oil at various throttle positions.. so, say, for this example, the WOT ratio is 40:1.. So, the proper amount of oil for a 40:1 ratio is injected into the fuel pump..
When ANY AND ALL FUEL LEAVES the fuel pump at WOT, it is at a 40:1 ratio.. So, ANY and ALL FUEL that is fed to the engine is ALWAYS at this 40:1 ratio at WOT... So, whether you are adding an ounce or a gallon of fuel via injectors (boost or no boost).. the fuel will always be premixed at the proper fuel/oil ratio..It does not change because it is injected at the fuel pump..

Kelsey

WE are one two different pages Kelsey,

I have complete understanding of how a pump/regulator work….of course the pump is not maxed out to its full potential and obviously the pump is somewhat factory set to maybe (40:1)….but the fact remains, the oil pump will only feed X amount of oil when the throttle is completely open….so how does more oil get added when the fuel delivery is ramping up on boost, consider the extra injectors for race kits.

I assume the oil pump is stand alone and has no feedback or vacuum from fuel delivery, this would suggest the oil injection would stay the same at open throttle no matter what.

I sure hope im missing something basic here

 

[JHG]

I think I might be missing something, on my M8 the oil seems to be injected in the rubber boots between the throttle bodies and reeds. There is on oil line going to the fuel pump. When I pull the fuel rail off the injectors there is just raw gas in the rail and that fuel isn't mixed until after it passes through the throttle bodies. Is this wrong? I had it all apart last week and this is how it seemed to work.

 

[Going West]

i think kelsey is saying that the oil is injected on a ratio from the fuel pump, not a seperate oil pump, at say 40:1 at WOT. so if the pump is putting out more fuel it will automaitcly also put out more oil.

 

[Original OT]

Hatch nobody is off topic so "chill".

OT

 

[AKSNOWRIDER]

i think kelsey is saying that the oil is injected on a ratio from the fuel pump, not a seperate oil pump, at say 40:1 at WOT. so if the pump is putting out more fuel it will automaitcly also put out more oil.

I think that is wrong though...if the fuel pump was controling oil flow into the gas/engine...then you wouldnt need an adjustable/cable controlled oil pump..oil pump controls oil flow.....if your sled is burning to much oil..you adjust the oil pump..not the fuel pump...hence if you flow more fuel thru the fuel system..your oil ratio seen in the motor will lean up since you didnt richen the oil pump..........regardless how much fuel is going thru the system the oil pump is only going to flow the amount of oil it is set to flow.....

 

[Going West]

I think that is wrong though...if the fuel pump was controling oil flow into the gas/engine...then you wouldnt need an adjustable/cable controlled oil pump..oil pump controls oil flow.....if your sled is burning to much oil..you adjust the oil pump..not the fuel pump...hence if you flow more fuel thru the fuel system..your oil ratio seen in the motor will lean up since you didnt richen the oil pump..........regardless how much fuel is going thru the system the oil pump is only going to flow the amount of oil it is set to flow.....

If this is the case, then how do you explain the fact then that when you mod a carbed motor then add bigger jets your oil use per liter of feul stays the same. (ive measured many times)

 

[AKSNOWRIDER]

If this is the case, then how do you explain the fact then that when you mod a carbed motor then add bigger jets your oil use per liter of feul stays the same. (ive measured many times)

it should stay the same since you didnt alter the flow rate of the oil pump....the oil pump doesnt care how much fuel goes thru the motor..it only flows the amount of oil it is setup to flow...your fuel/oil ratio will change since you added more fuel..but the oil pump flowed the same amount of oil it did before..you just flowed more fuel thru the motor with the same amount of oil it was getting before.....so yes the fuel/oil ratio changed but the oil pump flowed the same amount of oil it flowed before.......

 

[Going West]

A little more on topic now.

I just bough the TT race gas kit and heres the reasons why.

Like stated before it has the shortest lenght charge tube and every one i talked to said there was no lag a lower boost levels (5-7 psi) This was very improtant to me as i ride the steep and deep in the thick trees.

Kit comes complete with everything you need

Form what ive read the additude box is alot easier to tune and you dont have to always adjust it

Extra injectors are in the throttle bodies.

Kits are adjustable from 4 psi and pump gas to 20 psi and crazy

The main thing that makes his kit different is that he is almost always avalible to answer your question or help you with a problem. Last year i started looking into turbos and shain was the only person to return my emails or messages and give me straight up answers, and i my books thats woth alot.

 

[Original OT]

RKT, it's been said that most of the 2 stroke oil is used to lubricate the crank while very little oils is used to lubricate the friction between the cylinder wall/piston. True or False ?


Hatch, how much oil does your 2 stroke turbo use each ride ?


OT

 

[hatchers]

Hatch, how much oil does your 2 stroke turbo use each ride ?
OT

I had mine set about 45:1....just for a comfy feeling as last year was my first on a turbo kit, learning curve, these 2 stroke turbos get a bad rap in the forum and work great on the hill

 

[hatchers]

i think kelsey is saying that the oil is injected on a ratio from the fuel pump, not a seperate oil pump, at say 40:1 at WOT. so if the pump is putting out more fuel it will automaitcly also put out more oil.

I know what he was trying to say....but it had nothing to do with a turbo application, we all know kelsey is wise but he needs to read the thread content beforehand