SNOWEST FORUMS: Member Comments on "Letter to All Members"

[x-guy]

Let me talk with brian about this.
I don't know if it would be POSSIBLE to offer two different user interfaces at the same time.

But who knows, MAYBE it could be done with a synchronized database on 2 different instances of of the forums??

Perhaps it may be more reasonable for this community to have all the new features turned off as a default when you join, and then members that care to look into it, and have the computer knowledge to use them properly can add the features that they want since they are there to use, rather than having all features turned on by default, and having members turn them off, where some may be uncomfortable doing so, or may be on a slow connection. Just a thought

 

[Steamboat-RN]

I'll join. Does that mean I can oppose the dogma of the other side as well?

For example, I'd love to oppose a few of these dogmatic "facts":

• SnoWest can't be paying for the forums, it's all ads, baby.

Hmmm..ok next rant

• SnoWest is run by a bunch of morons

I guess I missed that post. It sure does have it's share of resident morons

• I know what equipment it takes to run a site and I can do it for cheaper.

hard to believe but many on here do

• Making people pay will kill the site.

to be determined.

• Nobody wants this change. Non-representative polls tell us that.

as representative as any poll here.

• And many other hits we've seen along the way.

I'll even be okay with you opposing my "dogma" that includes:

• You don't know the equipment or usage requirements, so stop pretending you do

personally I do not. MANY others do. NOT THE POINT.

• Pay sites are going to become more prevalent

TRUE. everybody's doing it. we should too?

• SnoWest is, in fact, not run by morons

to be determined.

• It's their site, they can do what they want

BINGO, we have a winner

• Changing to a pay model may cause users to flee

Will cause users to leave.

Why do you feel that we should all just accept these changes at face value and get out our check books?

And please, while I do not FULLY understand the inner workings of a web site, many on here do. They and I have asked valid questions. Are you the only one here with the expertise and inside knowledge to fully grasp the situation? Do YOU have the balance books for the past 11 years. Have you spent a nickle of you own money on upgrades to this site. Do you know the revenue stream?
You are acting like some self appointed super mod with all the inside information looking down from your lofty perch at us poor ignorant serfs.

Most of the discussion has been conjecture on both sides. Only HP has the real data. And they, understandably, are not sharing.

 

[dsp81]

Why do you feel that we should all just accept these changes at face value and get out our check books?

I don't. I think you can, and will, vote with your wallet. I would fully expect you to do so.

And please, while I do not FULLY understand the inner workings of a web site, many on here do. They and I have asked valid questions. Are you the only one here with the expertise and inside knowledge to fully grasp the situation? Do YOU have the balance books for the past 11 years. Have you spent a nickle of you own money on upgrades to this site. Do you know the revenue stream?
You are acting like some self appointed super mod with all the inside information looking down from your lofty perch at us poor ignorant serfs.

No. I don't. But I don't pretend I do. I do know some things, others I don't. But I'm not acting like it is fact that they should be able to run the site like x, or that equipment costs should be y, or ad revenue should be q. I've said that it doesn't really matter what we think because we don't know much of the important data about a hundred times. So, if we're going to throw around terms like "dogma," then at least be wary of a performative contradiction.

 

[tudizzle]

Lots of numbers for users being thrown out there "14000 active users"?


What is considered an active user? I would think it would be someone who posts at least 1 time a day (average).


Christopher...how many Snowest users post at least 1 time a day on average?

 

[Steamboat-RN]

Neither I nor anyone else has stated that "Everything that Christopher or HP says is a lie." Nor you for that matter. I have not said that I know all the answers.
There does, however, appear to be some inconsistencies between what we are being told by HP and what is happening elsewhere.
It is not a fact that they should be able to run the site at a profit. It is however,reasonable to assume that industry experts should be able to do so when many other similar sites can.
All things being equal, it is not unfair to question why HP is unable to compete.

Feel free to throw any other terms around if it pleases you. Not all of us lowly serfs are strangers to academia.

 

[christopher]

So just out of curiosity and the "fun of it", cause I'm kinda demented like that and like to know if my argument won or lost will we be able to see in the stats the number of paid prem members vs reg registered members, and guests like we see guests and registered members now?

Just wondering

They should show up in the new member groups we create.

 

[christopher]

Do not give in to evil...so now we're evil?

All of which gives credence to the phrase, it's better to be lucky than good..

I think you found an alternative translation to the traditional latin meaning.
But yes, it IS better to be lucky than good, as good will not always be lucky.

 

[christopher]

It seems there is the possibility some of us may be on shaky ground. I said my goodbye's last night and discoverred this afternoon that I may actually be a gonner... . Well, whatever the problem was, I am now allowed back. This may be a glitch. I'm not sure. I will say if this was a warning to be silent, I did not approve. I will not point fingers or lay any blame. I only wish to make it known that for some unknown reason my login got fubar'd. I have heard talk of others having issues. When it happens to you it tends to get your attention. It got mine. It does not mean I will remain anonomous or silent. It just got my attention.... Just FYI.

I got your e-mail, checked your account, and could find NOTHING on it that had been changed. Why you were not able to log in is a mystery to all of us. But, both of the database servers went down last night under extraordinarily high loads, and it is quite possible that something simply got scrambled. In either case, so far as I can tell, your account is up and running.

 

[christopher]

Christopher,

I may be unique to this forum as I do not snowmobile. However, I am a volunteer member of the Medicine Bow Nordic Ski Patrol and some of our members use this forum to view discussions on riding areas, avalanche conditions etc. and reports on lost/saved parties.

Will you offer a comp or discount to our organization?

Mark

Yes.
We would be happy to do that.

 

[dsp81]

There does, however, appear to be some inconsistencies between what we are being told by HP and what is happening elsewhere.
It is not a fact that they should be able to run the site at a profit. It is however,reasonable to assume that industry experts should be able to do so when many other similar sites can.
All things being equal, it is not unfair to question why HP is unable to compete.

But that is an opinion. And as I've stated before, why does it matter what the margin is? Why can't they just want to make more money off the forums? People have to disparage someone's business acumen when they don't agree with the decision or assume that they must not have thought of the important things (I'm not in anyway indicating that you did such, but it happened).

Feel free to throw any other terms around if it pleases you. Not all of us lowly serfs are strangers to academia.

Don't play the victim card. You seem intelligent - and in any case, I never questioned your intelligence. Being guilty of something you accuse another of doesn't mean that I'm calling you stupid.

 

[Steamboat-RN]

I think you found an alternative translation to the traditional latin meaning.
But yes, it IS better to be lucky than good, as good will not always be lucky.

Sorry I took a bit of literary license and paraphrased.
tu ne cede malis sed contra audentior ito
Do not give in to evil. But rather proceed ever more boldly against it.

Nice motto though.

I would prefer to be lucky AND good. Given the choice that is.

 

[christopher]

Lots of numbers for users being thrown out there "14000 active users"?


What is considered an active user? I would think it would be someone who posts at least 1 time a day (average).


Christopher...how many Snowest users post at least 1 time a day on average?

An active member is anyone who has a registered account and has logged into that account at least once in the last 30 days.

it does not require them to post to be active.
But it does not account for the guests that are on the site looking around.

They account for another 40% or so of total traffic.

Threads: 127,750,
Posts: 1,715,642,
Members: 36,505,
Active Members: 14,807


Currently Active Users:
1,348 (829 members and 519 guests)
Most users ever online was 7,603, Yesterday at 09:25 PM.

 

[christopher]

Sorry I took a bit of literary license and paraphrased.
tu ne cede malis sed contra audentior ito
Do not give in to evil. But rather proceed ever more boldly against it.

Nice motto though.

I would prefer to be lucky AND good. Given the choice that is.

I spent several years in the 82nd airborne as a combat medic taking care of guys who didn't land so well..

Those are all phrases from that part of my life.

 

[Steamboat-RN]

But that is an opinion. And as I've stated before, why does it matter what the margin is? Why can't they just want to make more money off the forums? People have to disparage someone's business acumen when they don't agree with the decision or assume that they must not have thought of the important things (I'm not in anyway indicating that you did such, but it happened).


Don't play the victim card. You seem intelligent - and in any case, I never questioned your intelligence. Being guilty of something you accuse another of doesn't mean that I'm calling you stupid. Agreed. Though I'm hardly the victim.

Here-in lies the rub. In the open letter we were told that this forum was in the red for many years and that we would now all have to bail-out HP.
You've got to pay to play or I'll take my football and go home.
No where did it say they wanted to turn this puppy into a cash cow.
Several suggestions have been proposed on how to eek out a bit more revenue and perhaps keep the site free.
It seems that is not an option. Now that HP has visions of a big ROI.

 

[Steamboat-RN]

I spent several years in the 82nd airborne as a combat medic taking care of guys who didn't land so well..

Those are all phrases from that part of my life.

Thank-you for serving!

 

[tudizzle]

So how many users have a 1 post per day average?

 

[christopher]

Here-in lies the rub. In the open letter we were told that this forum was in the red for many years and that we would now all have to bail-out HP.
You've got to pay to play or I'll take my football and go home.
No where did it say they wanted to turn this puppy into a cash cow.
Several suggestions have been proposed on how to eek out a bit more revenue and perhaps keep the site free.
It seems that is not an option. Now that HP has visions of a big ROI.

If your completely honest and run the numbers yourself, using real world values, you will see that there is not going to be any massive ROI for this. That is not why they are doing it.

And yes I know, everyone thinks its all a big lie, and that SnoWest is going to make a million dollars. But it just ain't so.

To be honest, at this point, I really wish I had never even mentioned financial history of the site, and just left it that they had made a decision that they wanted to change the direction of their site. It was a mistake for me to have ever shared that information in the first place, as all it has done is caused even more controversy and contention.

 

[christopher]

Thank-you for serving!

Your most welcome sir. It was my honor and pleasure to have done so.

 

[dsp81]

Here-in lies the rub. In the open letter we were told that this forum was in the red for many years and that we would now all have to bail-out HP.
You've got to pay to play or I'll take my football and go home.
No where did it say they wanted to turn this puppy into a cash cow.
Several suggestions have been proposed on how to eek out a bit more revenue and perhaps keep the site free.
It seems that is not an option. Now that HP has visions of a big ROI.

Don't mistake me asking why it is bad for them to want to make money with what they actually need/want to do. I'm saying it doesn't really matter. It's their site; they can do what they want. Make money, lose money, turn it into a site for knitting enthusiast, whatever.

And I don't take issue with suggestions to make the site better without the change. You can make them, and they might accept them. But if you're going to try and pass arguments like "everyone else can run their sites off ad revenue" as tautological (in the logical sense), then someone might counter that's not always the case. Given the amount of information actually available to the users, there have been some pretty strong accusations (again, not saying it was you).

 

[Steamboat-RN]

If your completely honest and run the numbers yourself, using real world values, you will see that there is not going to be any massive ROI for this. That is not why they are doing it.

And yes I know, everyone thinks its all a big lie, and that SnoWest is going to make a million dollars. But it just ain't so.

To be honest, at this point, I really wish I had never even mentioned financial history of the site, and just left it that they had made a decision that they wanted to change the direction of their site. It was a mistake for me to have ever shared that information in the first place, as all it has done is caused even more controversy and contention.

I would love to run the numbers. But as it has been pointed out from both sides, we don't know the numbers. We have no idea what HP charges for ad space or what their overhead is related to THIS site. Any estimates would be purely conjecture weighted by prejudice.

And yes, I would agree that it was (as DSP put it) a mistake to "play the victim card".
Here I'll rewrite it for ya.

An open letter to the members of SnoWest.
We here at Harris Publishing are not making enough money with magazines about Potato Farming, Sod, and Playgrounds. Quite frankly we are circling the drain here. So we came up with an idea to generate so cash flow. We are going to charge you to use our site. We know you have plenty of money because you have all those expensive sleds. So pony up to the HP bail-out program.
Oh, And have a nice Day.

There. Short and to the point. And for free.