SNOWEST FORUMS: Member Comments on "Letter to All Members"

[dsp81]

Very True, but YouTube and FaceBook have a very wide range of users, all races, ages, male, female, and varied interests. If I where an advertiser and was putting an ad onto this site, I would know that my target would be a very small percentage of the users.

Here, all advertisers are aware that they have their prime target looking at the site. Even though many do not buy, 100% are potential customers.

Right, targeting is key. But don't presuppose that YouTube and FaceBook don't target their ads. They do. Look at the ads that come up on the page and notice that they are often relevant to what you are looking at.

Also, because they have such a wide viewership, they can also demand more for their spots. As I analogized previously, SnoWest cannot charge the same amount for a full page advertisement as the New York Times (or Time Magazine).

I'm not saying that you can't make money using online advertisements, I'm just arguing that you can't make a killing doing it. SW already stated they don't bring in enough to run the site off ads and have to subsidize the site (and this was before any upgrades). News organizations are having the exact same problem.

The bigger issue they face is why are people going to pay for something they've been getting for free? I can't answer that because this is just starting to happen and there's not a lot to compare it to.

 

[Snowizard]

The Snowest management attitude about the forum reminds me of that famous quote from an American Admiral during the height of a Naval battle, whose ships were outnumbered by the "opposition", said "damn the (enemy) torpedos, FULL SPEED AHEAD!

I pointed out a couple weeks ago about the loss of "community" on the forum.
I'm a senior rider, I ride a stock 4-stroke turbo, I'm not into modding or buy/sell.
For me, it's about the PEOPLE, and not about foo-foo bells and whistles.
I'm taking a wait-and-see attitude about SW that has been a wonderful past-time, but in the mean time, I'm looking elsewherre.

Oh, and It's not about the money... you stubborn...........

 

[MPS]

Well, direct all those PM you get to vote on the poll. They don,t have to reveal who they are and the numbers will sky rocket in your favour!

I also am neutral, I am concerned about a place I enjoy. I am also concerned about the lack of information you seem to have, but I am still in a wait and see approach as well. Chris, you are a smart individual for sure, you just come across as unprofessional. No disrespect to your abilities or your experience, as I see they are impressive.

...this seems to be a trend...however, I will concur with the compliment....you have talent, but your people skills need a lot of work. Do my people skills need work? ....hell ya!

The Snowest management attitude about the forum reminds me of that famous quote from an American Admiral during the height of a WWII Naval battle, whose ships were outnumbered by the "opposition", said "damn the (enemy) torpedos, FULL SPEED AHEAD!

Great comparison Snowizard!



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[captain-sno]

Uh oh..I see it now the our *****ing and complaining isn't working well enough lets spam the forums with "Boycott Snowest Sponsor" threads that will surely show them who is boss!

You must have mis read my post....not sure what your talking about, this was a comparison of youtube advertisers (facebook as well) and advertisers to SW. No suggestion of boycott??????? where did you get that?????? This was a business dicussion on advertisers and websites.....have another drink!

 

[captain-sno]

Right, targeting is key. But don't presuppose that YouTube and FaceBook don't target their ads. They do. Look at the ads that come up on the page and notice that they are often relevant to what you are looking at.

Also, because they have such a wide viewership, they can also demand more for their spots. As I analogized previously, SnoWest cannot charge the same amount for a full page advertisement as the New York Times (or Time Magazine).

I'm not saying that you can't make money using online advertisements, I'm just arguing that you can't make a killing doing it. SW already stated they don't bring in enough to run the site off ads and have to subsidize the site (and this was before any upgrades). News organizations are having the exact same problem.

The bigger issue they face is why are people going to pay for something they've been getting for free? I can't answer that because this is just starting to happen and there's not a lot to compare it to.

Fair enough.

 

[brahm]

You must have mis read my post....not sure what your talking about, this was a comparison of youtube advertisers (facebook as well) and advertisers to SW. No suggestion of boycott??????? where did you get that?????? This was a business dicussion on advertisers and websites.....have another drink!

No, sorry I wasn't replying directly to you, or stating that you were implying such. I was inferring that is what brewing in the minds of others in reference to your post.

 

[MPS]

Votes on the poll continue to rapidly rise....yet still at 70% oppossed. HMMMMM....ya seeing a trend here?

VOTE

http://www.snowest.com/forum/showthread.php?t=179529

Like I said I don't blame you for doing your job Chris, but you have awoken a type of people that don't just roll over.


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[dsp81]

Votes on the poll continue to rapidly rise....yet still at 70% oppossed. HMMMMM....ya seeing a trend here?
.

Is the sample representative? What's the margin of error?

 

[Abominable]

There are a great many posts for members of the forum, make no mistake about it.

But there are about 10 members who are actively participating in this entire thread from start to finish. I think that is an honest statement, and for the most part, those 10 members are in fact saying the same thing again and again.

That's an incorrect assumption. If you look at who posted in this thread you can see that the largest number of contributing individuals posted 3 times or less.

 

[Sturgis Sledder]

I'm not saying that you can't make money using online advertisements, I'm just arguing that you can't make a killing doing it. SW already stated they don't bring in enough to run the site off ads and have to subsidize the site (and this was before any upgrades). News organizations are having the exact same problem.

The bigger issue they face is why are people going to pay for something they've been getting for free? I can't answer that because this is just starting to happen and there's not a lot to compare it to.

They said they don't want to "make a killing", they said all they need is the seed money to provide the upkeep for the forums.

DID you ever consider that maybe their ad pricing structure was hosed up, that their tracking software wasn't correctly configured so it isn't providing accurate tracking info (i.e. click thrus and conversions) or that maybe they just weren't "selling to enough advertisers"?

 

[dsp81]

They said they don't want to "make a killing", they said all they need is the seed money to provide the upkeep for the forums.

DID you ever consider that maybe their ad pricing structure was hosed up, that their tracking software wasn't correctly configured so it isn't providing accurate tracking info (i.e. click thrus and conversions) or that maybe they just weren't "selling to enough advertisers"?

Did you ever consider that it's not? In either case, does it matter what you or I think? Neither of us are privy to that information, so simply saying that "it's probably a defect on their part causing them to not make enough to cover the site," is presumptive at best.

 

[brahm]

Votes on the poll continue to rapidly rise....yet still at 70% oppossed. HMMMMM....ya seeing a trend here?

VOTE

http://www.snowest.com/forum/showthread.php?t=179529

Like I said I don't blame you for doing your job Chris, but you have awoken a type of people that don't just roll over.


.

Well it's because it's a loaded poll. Nobody would prefer a pay site, but guess what. It's not up to us. It's funny some posts you guys are screaming "It's not about the pay", yet at the same time you're screaming "See look nobody wants to pay!" Really you need a poll to figure out that people would prefer the site to be free. Why not make a poll that says "Who wants a Million Dollars", and then reference it in your arguments.

"It's not about whether or not people want a million dollars, it's about the mods but clearly as you can see people do want a million dollars just like I said there for I am right and you are wrong. So listen to me or snowest is doomed to failure, cause I was right people do want a million dollars, which in turns means that chris is running the forum into the ground"

 

[brahm]

That's an incorrect assumption. If you look at who posted in this thread you can see that the largest number of contributing individuals posted 3 times or less.

Ya but if you take the number of people who posted 3 times or less added them up they are way less then the number of posts by the small group of people who posted 10+ ^_^

 

[Sturgis Sledder]

Did you ever consider that it's not? In either case, does it matter what you or I think? Neither of us are privy to that information, so simply saying that "it's probably a defect on their part causing them to not make enough to cover the site," is presumptive at best.

What I am presuming is that they are smart enough to operate a web site forum that can be supported by ads, like 99% of the other forums out there.

 

[dsp81]

What I am presuming is that they are smart enough to operate a web site forum that can be supported by ads, like 99% of the other forums out there.

The problem with that assumption is that many other sites are struggling to do so.

 

[ruffryder]

Ya but if you take the number of people who posted 3 times or less added them up they are way less then the number of posts by the small group of people who posted 10+ ^_^

26% of the total posts are from about 15 people against the changes
20% of the total posts are from Christopher.
that leaves 54% of the total posts coming from the other people (dsp, you are in here, lol)

Yes, I like math and numbers... (edit, but it seems I am not good at either ha ha)

 

[dsp81]

1/3 of the posts are from about 15 people, excluding Christopher and dsp81.

1/2 are from Christopher and dsp. That leaves 1/6 coming from the other people.

Yes, I like math and numbers...

Half of the remaining 2/3 or half of the total? And I don't like being lumped in with someone that churns 6x my output

 

[ruffryder]

Half of the remaining 2/3 or half of the total? And I don't like being lumped in with someone that churns 6x my output

half of the total, and too bad. I had to put you somewhere...

I figured I would separate into three groups, the large respondents against, large respondents for, and "other". Yah, I try and be as scientific as possible.

 

[Steamboat-RN]

Made it to the top ten.

Ya but if you take the number of people who posted 3 times or less added them up they are way less then the number of posts by the small group of people who posted 10+ ^_^

While you are counting. Try adding up all the people that only posted once to say they would not pay and are leaving.

Compare that to the few that said they would be glad to pay.

While you are at it, compare the post counts of both groups.

Long term active users are leaving in droves leaving mostly lurkers and occasional users.

Counter-productive if you are trying to take this forum to another level of excellence.

 

[christopher]

You may very well have sent a PM on how to do this, I hope you dont take offence, but I tend to treat admin PM's as junk mail, I get pm's from admins on alot of different forums I belong to, almost always they are about things I would have no interest in, so I have gotten into a habit to either ignore them, or skim through them because all I want is to share some info, and make some new friends, not learn how to work the new forum gadgets.

Yes in the end its my own fault for doing this, but it is what it is, am I alone in this? maybe, maybe not, but it may be one reason as to why this keeps popping up, I know it would be frustrating since your doing all you can, but there is not much that can be done about this, and unfortuneatly your gonna be the one that has to deal with it, no amount of pm's/announcements/threads is going to reach everyone, so dont let it frustrate you too much! Thanks for responding to my other threads, I know those can be difficult questions to answer, I did not even really feel right for posting them, but it makes a huge difference in my decision and I do love this site, I dont want to leave. I am getting off track here now, since I have no more questions, I am going to wait and see what the new snowest is going to be like, and some more details of the plan, and more importantly see how many of the senior helpful members are left and go from there.

Thanks for the extra insight.
It could well be that we have many members who don't like the changes, but also just don't care enough to do anything about that. That is one of the great unknowables of my job. But it is my job, and I do get to deal with every single day.

And because the answer to your questions does make a difference, I continue to try and answer your's and those of other members that ask me questions I am able to answer.

And again, THANK YOU for your willingness to take a wait and see attitude. I will do my best to make it worthwhile.