SNOWEST FORUMS: Member Comments on "Letter to All Members"

[christopher]

I tend to agree with this statement, your amazed that people continue to complain about something that is 100% controlled by the user, but what your not getting here is the fact that alot of sledders are not computer friendly! You have knowledge of computers, not everyone does, alot of the older generation has troubles with emails and so forth, so can you really expect people to just all of a sudden "get it".

OK
Point well taken.!

I will go back and re-visit this issue with ALL of the members.

I thought I sent out a PM on how to do this, perhaps it was only a thread.

But I will send out a DETAILED STEP by STEP procedure for how they can enable, disable or move the various items.

 

[akMcat]

I think a more apt insurance example would be that your insurance provider will begin charging you for something that had previously been subsidized by the government and provided to you free of charge. That subsidization was not enough to pay for the service entirely. Now the insurance company has made improvements to the program and provides more expansive care. They would like to charge you a nominal fee to use the service.

Now, maybe if SW was trying to get you to subsidize your friend's membership, it would be a more appropriate analogy. Or if you were getting insurance for free and now you will be charged. But, honestly, other than whipping up emotion, this compares very poorly to health care reform.

I see what your saying and maybe it is a poor analogy, but the question is Why would I pay for membership to a forum that charges me to provide mostly unwanted features, when I can simply go somewhere else and get it for free. Which imo is what most people would do.
Snowest is a respected name in the industry, and one of my favorite mags, but I am a casual user of the forum mostly just reading others posts and perusing for useful info on problems and technical issues with sleds. Usership is high now and good information is plentiful but I can fairly easily go find it somewhere else.

 

[christopher]

Yes, we have a lot of money into the sport, and $10 is peanuts for a year; but it really is the principle.

Your right. It is all about the principle.

Does SnoWest create enough value to justify your 3 cents a day to be a member.

After everything else is stripped away from this discussion, Thats the absolute bottom line here.

3 cents a day.

If everything we offer is worth it, then you will stay. If everything we offer is not worth 3 cents a day, then you will leave.

We understand that, and we will be working hard for your 3 cents each and every day.

 

[MPS]

Polls can only give you a sampling of the members who are willing to participate.

here we have a thread that over 5,000 have read.
but only 300 or so have posted to.

Any poll you run will be HIGHLY BIASED towards those who are motivated to participate in the poll. Its never going to give you an honest cross section of the entire membership.

I knew you would say something like that. Yes polls give you a sampling....thanks for the education lesson. I majored in Poly Sci for my undergraduate degree....there is marginal error here....nothing like what you describe. Have you looked at the poll? How many have voted neutral? I suppose they are highly biased, right?

It is obvious you are going to move along with your agenda despite customers screaming they are unhappy....good luck to ya! If I were a businessman....this is not a gamble I would be willing to take.



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[christopher]

It is kind of like getting in your favorite truck and someone has changed the seat, mirrors, radio, etc. It is just kind of annoying. We are all creatures of habit. We all resist change to a certain extent.

Some of us, myself included, are not too computer savvy. It is a pain in the butt for me to search around and figure out how to make things look the way they did before, the way I was familiar with.

Your forum, your right to do as you please with it. Some of us are trying to get SW to look at things from Joe User's point of view. In the end the more people you can keep happy here, the more users and SW and HP will benefit.

Excellent Analogy!
I guess I really need to work harder on showing people how to use the little memory button on the door that resets the Seat, Mirrors, Steering wheel and pedals to their favorite position!

 

[christopher]

I sure do feel like I am talking to a brick wall on this issue..

That makes two of us.

 

[christopher]

same 10 people, great now i have to count

We can all see that's not true..

There are a great many posts for members of the forum, make no mistake about it.

But there are about 10 members who are actively participating in this entire thread from start to finish. I think that is an honest statement, and for the most part, those 10 members are in fact saying the same thing again and again.

 

[dsp81]

I see what your saying and maybe it is a poor analogy, but the question is Why would I pay for membership to a forum that charges me to provide mostly unwanted features, when I can simply go somewhere else and get it for free. Which imo is what most people would do.
Snowest is a respected name in the industry, and one of my favorite mags, but I am a casual user of the forum mostly just reading others posts and perusing for useful info on problems and technical issues with sleds. Usership is high now and good information is plentiful but I can fairly easily go find it somewhere else.

That's a valid argument. That is what many service providers (magazines, newspapers, etc.) are trying to figure out. As the other part of their industry (print) die away, they have to decide how to continue to make money providing content or services on the internet.

In all likelihood, you'll probably start seeing more content providers charging to use their service. Rupert Murdoch (guy who owns Fox News and a few newspapers) has already moved the Wall Street Journal to a pay model. He wants to move the rest (New York Post, etc) to a pay model within the next year or so. All the other newspapers are watching to see if it works because they pretty much have to do the same thing to survive.

Moving to a subscription model on the forums is a gamble. SW is hoping that it provides enough value that people stick around. But the days of the magazine subsidizing the forums are fast approaching the end. It may end up being the forums subsidizing the magazine. Or it may fail totally. In any case, they've decided that this is the way to go.

 

[MPS]

There are a great many posts for members of the forum, make no mistake about it.

But there are about 10 members who are actively participating in this entire thread from start to finish. I think that is an honest statement, and for the most part, those 10 members are in fact saying the same thing again and again.

Is there new information you have been sharing with us? ....a new argument? If so, please enlighten us again.

One last question for ya. My poll has consistently shown 70 percent against a paid site since it started....if that poll reaches a 1000 voted with the same stats....what will be your answer then?


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[brahm]

That makes two of us.

If I may.

 

[x-guy]

OK
Point well taken.!

I will go back and re-visit this issue with ALL of the members.

I thought I sent out a PM on how to do this, perhaps it was only a thread.

But I will send out a DETAILED STEP by STEP procedure for how they can enable, disable or move the various items.

You may very well have sent a PM on how to do this, I hope you dont take offence, but I tend to treat admin PM's as junk mail, I get pm's from admins on alot of different forums I belong to, almost always they are about things I would have no interest in, so I have gotten into a habit to either ignore them, or skim through them because all I want is to share some info, and make some new friends, not learn how to work the new forum gadgets.

Yes in the end its my own fault for doing this, but it is what it is, am I alone in this? maybe, maybe not, but it may be one reason as to why this keeps popping up, I know it would be frustrating since your doing all you can, but there is not much that can be done about this, and unfortuneatly your gonna be the one that has to deal with it, no amount of pm's/announcements/threads is going to reach everyone, so dont let it frustrate you too much! Thanks for responding to my other threads, I know those can be difficult questions to answer, I did not even really feel right for posting them, but it makes a huge difference in my decision and I do love this site, I dont want to leave. I am getting off track here now, since I have no more questions, I am going to wait and see what the new snowest is going to be like, and some more details of the plan, and more importantly see how many of the senior helpful members are left and go from there.

 

[HMC 399]

I think the basic premise that seems to be missed by all those eager for change and willing to slap down the coin is that most of us that are opposed to this feel that long term you will lose a percentage of your current base, and new members will most likely not come as strong as some think because of the pay. With lost members comes lost info, which is what makes this site so good. Most of us don't care about all the fluff, we like the kiss method (keep it simple stupid). I say find a way to keep the forum side and the viewing of the swap meet free and have a cost base for advanced forums and functions, while getting rid of all the free dealer adds at the bottom of the posts. You'll still have a revenue stream, have access to new members that join for free, and charge for high end features. There is a way to make this all work without losing anyone, and that needs to be the goal, and if not this forum will become what we call dead man walking. CHRIS instead of being so condescending, listen to some of the opposition, we aren't opposed to throwing coin out, we are opposed to allowing the sudden and certain death, in my opinion, you are going to impose on this forum. Good luck, I hope it all works, I think you have a wealth of knowledge at your hands from successful business men that are members, use it (and I'm not talking about struggling dealers that are about to go under).

 

[snowgasmxz]

i just kinda stop in every now and again .dont post much .i mostly come here looking for parts or info ,the free member would work for me . if i had to pay i most likly not come back ,but will keep my mag. sub.

 

[MPS]

i just kinda stop in every now and again .dont post much .i mostly come here looking for parts or info ,the free member would work for me . if i had to pay i most likly not come back ,but will keep my mag. sub.

golly gee....another....



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[MPS]

VOTE

http://www.snowest.com/forum/showthread.php?t=179529


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[bungeeguy]

It's about the $ because Obama took all my money, left the toilet clogged and the cat pregnant.
The only way S.W. will make it is if MOST current members stay active, without the members this site is nothing.

 

[captain-sno]

And besides, this whole comparing SnoWest to YouTube and FaceBook thing is apples to oranges. First, the pool of advertisers on those sites is much, much larger. Second, the traffic they see is insane. So let's make comparisons at 1:1. It would be a little like saying that SnoWest can charge the same price for a full page ad as, say, the New York Times.

Very True, but YouTube and FaceBook have a very wide range of users, all races, ages, male, female, and varied interests. If I where an advertiser and was putting an ad onto these sites, I would know that my target would be a very small percentage of the users. (youtube & facebook)

Here, all advertisers are aware that they have their prime target looking at the site. Even though many do not buy, 100% are potential customers.

 

[MPS]

The poll is rapidly rising in responses Chris....yet those opposed remains at 70%....hmmmm....you starting to believe me yet? Maybe little ol' MPS has some experience in polling.


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[brahm]

Very True, but YouTube and FaceBook have a very wide range of users, all races, ages, male, female, and varied interests. If I where an advertiser and was putting an ad onto this site, I would know that my target would be a very small percentage of the users.

Here, all advertisers are aware that they have their prime target looking at the site. Even though many do not buy, 100% are potential customers.

Uh oh..I see it now the our *****ing and complaining isn't working well enough lets spam the forums with "Boycott Snowest Sponsor" threads that will surely show them who is boss!

 

[captain-sno]

What you have here is a loud public outcry from those that are strongly against it. But in large part your only hearing the same voices over and over again. I am not sure that we have had even 500 members of the forum post in this thread. A third of the posts here are my replies, another third are the same people jumping in every couple of posts, and the remaining third are the real members.

What this thread does not represent are the hundreds of private messages I am getting from people who are unwilling to be ridiculed or harassed by posting their support in this thread.

Nevertheless, several good points have been raised in this thread that we ARE going to respond to and implement, so this has not fallen on deaf ears.

Well, direct all those PM you get to vote on the poll. They don,t have to reveal who they are and the numbers will sky rocket in your favour!

I also am neutral, I am concerned about a place I enjoy. I am also concerned about the lack of information you seem to have, but I am still in a wait and see approach as well. Chris, you are a smart individual for sure, you just come across as unprofessional. No disrespect to your abilities or your experience, as I see they are impressive.