Revy avalanche

[joust]

blame

The organizers should of had the balls to cancel the event due to poor & dangerous conditions. That way the organizers would have freed themselves from the dipshiz of liability they now face.

OT

I've been reading this and i just want to add something, OT do you really think the guys wouldn't have gone to turbo mountain if it was cancelled????? should the olympic committee be charged in the death of the luge competitor that died on the course? i didn't see one other luge competitor not race because of the incident and i'm sure the competitor that died would have gone too if it wasn't him. BIS is not at turbo mountain, the sledders that went to turbo are no different then any other sledders watching guys go up a hill, and if your going into the back country you should be prepared to go into the back country and that includes pointing your sled for an escape and not being in the middle of a funnel. the only bad i see coming out of this is; if you go into the back country your responsible to get yourself out and SAR shouldn't be putting their lives at risk because u made a bad decision.

RIP and my condolences to the families.

 

[SylvanLaker]

I think we're beating a dead horse here guys, we all know what should have and shouldn't have been done. I think the points that I agree with are these.

1.)

Everyone should be responsible for their own safety and the safety of others in the immediate area. I beleive this to be true and accepted by our soceity as it is scripted into many safety cultures in the employement industries and governmental acts (OH&S for example)

2.)

Anyone organizing an event (official or unofficial) in which their event knowingly has risks to either property, the public or finacial loss has and can be found to have a duty of care under canadian Tort Law. Theoretically, it is not unreasonable that during the event, if a loss was endured, liability could be assigned. In this case, the event was over. If I were the organizer I would have liability insurance and have barriers up identifying the danger zones during spectating. I am familiar with this stuff as I am in engineering and public liability is a large concern. Also I am a director for the Edmonton Motorcycle Roadracing Association, and liablity concerns and waivers are well looked over. We have little kids that spectate, that are unaware of the dangers of a hot race track. it is our duty of care to inform and protect the public interest. If we did not address these issues, a Court of Queens Bench would find us liable under the negligance clause under Can Tort law, as we owed a duty of care to the public. We knew about the danger, we did nothing, someone suffered a loss, court finds us responsible, we compensate.


I hate to agree with OT on any points as his tone is innapropriate, however he is right that I'm getting tired of posting "My prayers to the family and such". Some people aren't changing their habits and still riding unsafely.

We all have to do better and please don't be afraid to tell someone they are being unsafe..

Cheers.

 

[Slednoggin23]

Just drop it OT

Isn't this the same OT (Original Tetonice) that lost his wife in a auto accident a few years ago? You received a ton of and condolences and support from this forum in your time of grieving.

We all know your stance on the subject of riding when avalanche probability is high. We all know your stance on people buying back country safety equipment and being the cause of the problem. We all know you are opinionated on all sorts of subjects.

Please keep your opinions to yourself so the families of the men who died doing what they love can have to closure they deserve.

Our thoughts and prayers to the families and friends of the men who past on to high marking it the sky.

 

[OT Bar & Grill]

I have a lot of empathy & sadness for those that have passed & those that are left behind, I hope their families can move on with the rest of their lives in a positive manner.


On the other hand I am blown away & disgusted by the amount of denial in our community about what happened here. Very few want to admit the amount of negligence that occurred. It think it's shameful & is a disservice to the dead AND more important to those that have survived that people want to dent the reality which is... AN OUTRAGEOUS AMOUNT OF RULES WERE BROKEN HERE. By the riders, by the spectators, but the guy who cut above another rider and on & on... All I see here is poor decision making that needs to be curbed, and if we as a community keep saying that this was "an act of god" or that nobody is at fault, then we look like the morons that the rest of the world thinks we are right now.

I've spent my last couple days fighting this perception on another site, the constant assumption that we're all stupid 2 stroke fueled lackeys seems to be relatively common amongst other bc travelers. Things like this don't help & if people don't start owning up to how we need to CHANGE instead of all the coombayaa bullsh** we'll keep dying, they'll keep being right & the gov't will just have better fuel to regulate us out of the backcountry.


Flame away, I'm the bad guy here.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^THE TRUTH HAS BEEN SPOKEN^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Folks will always find an excuse or someone else to blame for there stupid mistakes

I started a thread for those who need to grieve and donate $$

OT

 

[sledskiing]

OUTRAGEOUS AMOUNT OF RULES WERE BROKEN HERE. .... but the guy who cut above another rider and on & on... All I see here is poor decision making that needs to be curbed, ...

x2 one man on the hill at a time..

 

[snowmanx]

I have a lot of empathy & sadness for those that have passed & those that are left behind, I hope their families can move on with the rest of their lives in a positive manner.


On the other hand I am blown away & disgusted by the amount of denial in our community about what happened here. Very few want to admit the amount of negligence that occurred. It think it's shameful & is a disservice to the dead AND more important to those that have survived that people want to dent the reality which is... AN OUTRAGEOUS AMOUNT OF RULES WERE BROKEN HERE. By the riders, by the spectators, but the guy who cut above another rider and on & on... All I see here is poor decision making that needs to be curbed, and if we as a community keep saying that this was "an act of god" or that nobody is at fault, then we look like the morons that the rest of the world thinks we are right now.

I've spent my last couple days fighting this perception on another site, the constant assumption that we're all stupid 2 stroke fueled lackeys seems to be relatively common amongst other bc travelers. Things like this don't help & if people don't start owning up to how we need to CHANGE instead of all the coombayaa bullsh** we'll keep dying, they'll keep being right & the gov't will just have better fuel to regulate us out of the backcountry.


Flame away, I'm the bad guy here.

Thank you for your post, I have recieved PM berating me for stating what happened and my opinion related to it. I believe I have been respectful, but we as acommunity should not deny what happened and the mistakes made, we need to move forward, and learn from this. Can't learn from this is all we do is say this is simply an act of god, so sad, and move on.

I DON'T believe it should go any farther than acceptance of responsibility and learn from it.

I agree with you 100%.

 

[pthfndr]

good on ya OT for your new thread. A great idea, lets just hope the admins will keep it to the subject and not let it drift off as this one has!

We are all responsible for our own actions and safety,But don't forget to look out for each other as well, because we all need a little help to make it to another day!

 

[backcountryislife]

Thank you for your post, I have recieved PM berating me for stating what happened and my opinion related to it. I believe I have been respectful, but we as acommunity should not deny what happened and the mistakes made, we need to move forward, and learn from this. Can't learn from this is all we do is say this is simply an act of god, so sad, and move on.

I DON'T believe it should go any farther than acceptance of responsibility and learn from it.

I agree with you 100%.

I kinda got that gist, you didn't post the guys name or post anything that I thought was inappropriate or nasty and I posted what I did more in regards to the fact that I've had it done to me, and seen it done to many other riders.

I don't care who the guy is, I can't imagine that there's ANY DOUBT that he has learned his lesson, and I hope he survived so he can pass that lesson along to MANY other people. The finger gets pointed at all of us as someone mentioned above, we all created this culture, we need to take a hard look at how we're behaving & how we allow our friends to behave when it endangers us.

 

[wiley75]

I have a lot of empathy & sadness for those that have passed & those that are left behind, I hope their families can move on with the rest of their lives in a positive manner.


On the other hand I am blown away & disgusted by the amount of denial in our community about what happened here. Very few want to admit the amount of negligence that occurred. It think it's shameful & is a disservice to the dead AND more important to those that have survived that people want to dent the reality which is... AN OUTRAGEOUS AMOUNT OF RULES WERE BROKEN HERE. By the riders, by the spectators, but the guy who cut above another rider and on & on... All I see here is poor decision making that needs to be curbed, and if we as a community keep saying that this was "an act of god" or that nobody is at fault, then we look like the morons that the rest of the world thinks we are right now.

I've spent my last couple days fighting this perception on another site, the constant assumption that we're all stupid 2 stroke fueled lackeys seems to be relatively common amongst other bc travelers. Things like this don't help & if people don't start owning up to how we need to CHANGE instead of all the coombayaa bullsh** we'll keep dying, they'll keep being right & the gov't will just have better fuel to regulate us out of the backcountry.


Flame away, I'm the bad guy here.

Backcountry - I agree with your statement. Most who have taken an avy class learn that human factors are the reason people die in slides. There were clearly many human factors that lead to this tragic accident. Placing fault and blame is pointless, but failing to recognize the errors that were made in decision making (aka human factors) that lead to the accident would be foolish in my opinion.

 

[CatWoman]

I would like EVERYONE to remain respectful.......PLEASE!!

This thread is not to bash away. It was started out of concern and caring, and it should remain that way. You can start your own thread if you want to do anything else. There are already a couple of other threads started, and one in particular that I personally feel is helpful..... 100 Things We Can Do To Be Safe.

I do not want people being discouraged from posting their condolences, their stories, or pertinent info.

 

[Scott]

I think it sounds like MOST of the people agree in this thread that: "If a human was involved in an avalanche, then mistakes have been made."

 

[Jaynelson]

Thank you for your post, I have recieved PM berating me for stating what happened and my opinion related to it. I believe I have been respectful, but we as acommunity should not deny what happened and the mistakes made, we need to move forward, and learn from this. Can't learn from this is all we do is say this is simply an act of god, so sad, and move on.

I DON'T believe it should go any farther than acceptance of responsibility and learn from it.

I agree with you 100%.

I am deeply sorry for you, and and all other who lost good friends or family in this tragedy. I agree if the snowmobile community brushes this off, we are doing ourselves absolutely no good. We MUST learn lessons from this, or we are doomed to keep repeating it.

 

[columbus]

All this talk about regulating the backcountry is making me sick. As some sort of change is inevitable after a situation like this one, I thought I would put this out there. In the Alps, although there is little or no sledding, there are really no other restrictions as to where and when you can go out into the mountains. Ski area boundaries are not enforced, it is up to you to know where you are going and to come home safe. If you need rescue, it is available, and some of the best equipped high angle rescue teams in the world are based there, but it is not free. If you are rescued, you pay, but there is very affordable insurance available. The program is called Carte Neige, and as of 8 years ago it cost $100 per year. It covers all aspects of mountain/backcountry rescue right up to the point where your medical coverage kicks in. You are not required to have it, but anyone traveling off of designated ski runs typically has it as it is senseless not to.

I am against any sort of regulation, but if the powers that be feel they need to do something, I hope it is something along these lines-go where you please when you please, but have coverage or expect to pay a lot.

 

[skippy]

I have a lot of empathy & sadness for those that have passed & those that are left behind, I hope their families can move on with the rest of their lives in a positive manner.


On the other hand I am blown away & disgusted by the amount of denial in our community about what happened here. Very few want to admit the amount of negligence that occurred. It think it's shameful & is a disservice to the dead AND more important to those that have survived that people want to dent the reality which is... AN OUTRAGEOUS AMOUNT OF RULES WERE BROKEN HERE. By the riders, by the spectators, but the guy who cut above another rider and on & on... All I see here is poor decision making that needs to be curbed, and if we as a community keep saying that this was "an act of god" or that nobody is at fault, then we look like the morons that the rest of the world thinks we are right now.

I've spent my last couple days fighting this perception on another site, the constant assumption that we're all stupid 2 stroke fueled lackeys seems to be relatively common amongst other bc travelers. Things like this don't help & if people don't start owning up to how we need to CHANGE instead of all the coombayaa bullsh** we'll keep dying, they'll keep being right & the gov't will just have better fuel to regulate us out of the backcountry.


Flame away, I'm the bad guy here.

This was a awesome post! Thank you

 

[OT Bar & Grill]

All this talk about regulating the backcountry is making me sick. As some sort of change is inevitable after a situation like this one, I thought I would put this out there. In the Alps, although there is little or no sledding, there are really no other restrictions as to where and when you can go out into the mountains. Ski area boundaries are not enforced, it is up to you to know where you are going and to come home safe. If you need rescue, it is available, and some of the best equipped high angle rescue teams in the world are based there, but it is not free. If you are rescued, you pay, but there is very affordable insurance available. The program is called Carte Neige, and as of 8 years ago it cost $100 per year. It covers all aspects of mountain/backcountry rescue right up to the point where your medical coverage kicks in. You are not required to have it, but anyone traveling off of designated ski runs typically has it as it is senseless not to.

I am against any sort of regulation, but if the powers that be feel they need to do something, I hope it is something along these lines-go where you please when you please, but have coverage or expect to pay a lot.

Who's to blame or you becoming sick ?

OT

 

[sledRevy]

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNe...16/avalanche_100316/20100316?hub=TopStoriesV2

 

[scarlier]

tragedy

OK here we go
I lost 2 of my best friends and co-workers in this event. I knew both of the guys that passed away and was very much involved in both of there life's. They were both best friends and business partners.
Before I go much further I have talked to both of there wifes and given statement to all kinds of press. I want to let all my fellow friends and internet friends know that we (The 2 wife and myself) are not pointing any fingers and we all find it very hard to think of why people would try to press charges. I know and have read this thread a lost of times and would just like to stress that this is no ones fault at all and would like everyone to know how we felt.



Shay was a very good and experienced sledder he really enjoyed sledding and loved to get away to the mountains, he worked very hard so he could play even harder. One thing he all way told me was "if he had to go he wanted to go from the top of the world". Shay was the one at the top of the hill so I feel he wish was answered.

This was a once a year trip for Kurtis and he really enjoyed coming to enjoy a sport that his partner was very passionate for. This was his second trip and he was really enjoying himself. He work very hard and love to play. with his family and friends



Both men will be very much missed and remembered
I will keep everyone posted on when the Funerals will take place

I really appreciate all the positive comments and I have also past them on to the family's
THANKS SNOWEST

Mike Harker

I have to agree with Mike totally. Shay Snortland was my best friend in the world, and Kurtis a very close friend. I have spent the last three days with their wives and children and i know that for a fact that there is know one to blame. I was supposed to be there but was attending a funeral. I know that if i was there it could have been me or anyone else that was killed. Shay and Kurtis would be trying to help the families of the dead and injured not worrying about pointing fingers at anyone. As for the people blaming and talking sh_t. Give it a rest. The families need help not more hurt.

Stacey Carlier

PS. For the guys that wanna trash talk my friends for doing what they loved. 403 869 9044 I would be gald to here it face to face.
I will be sitting on Turbo Hill at Yamafest to say goodbye to my friends if anyone cares to join me!

 

[Rock Star]

The Song Remains The Same

all these years.. it always goes like this

a tragedy of an avy occurs
a thread starts
concern is first
prayers and condolences are right behind that
then second guessing and finger pointing and pontificating (I've done that)

my point. This DOES open up discussion. Discussion, no matter how you personally feel, opens up minds. Your passion no matter what your opinion, is a GOOD thing. Listen to both sides and come away more aware is all I would ask.

This is a huge awakening and a huge opportunity to make something good out of a very bad situation. Usually a slide is felt by a small group and they learn. This time so many are involved and the fact that so many were educated and equiped serves as a huge lesson in being prepared and frankly shows that we've come a long way. we can be proud as a group. Now if we could just stay out of harms way a bit better, eh?

Something we started doing after Animal died was walking up to strangers in the parking lot as we got ready and discussing avy danger that day.. even if it's low, especially if it's high. Most are willing to talk and appreciate the friendly chat. And I promise if they weren't thinking before you talked that they are now! Please reach out to your fellow sledders. make it a habit. all of us. If we do, these threads will become a thing of the past.

Peace out, Rock

 

[Alberta Boy]

I have to agree with Mike totally. Shay Snortland was my best friend in the world, and Kurtis a very close friend. I have spent the last three days with their wives and children and i know that for a fact that there is know one to blame. I was supposed to be there but was attending a funeral. I know that if i was there it could have been me or anyone else that was killed. Shay and Kurtis would be trying to help the families of the dead and injured not worrying about pointing fingers at anyone. As for the people blaming and talking sh_t. Give it a rest. The families need help not more hurt.

Stacey Carlier

PS. For the guys that wanna trash talk my friends for doing what they loved. 403 869 9044 I would be gald to here it face to face.
I will be sitting on Turbo Hill at Yamafest to say goodbye to my friends if anyone cares to join me!

I feel your pain dude! I like the thought of a "goodbye" but it may have to be outside the confines of Yamafest as the event has been cancelled... maybe an opportunity to have a memorial ride that weekend instead of Yamafest...

 

[newmy1]

Why am i wrong ? Should we all pretend that this type of behavior is OK ? Maybe we should just keep trying to sugar coat this tragedy. Like all other similar tragedy of the past.

OT

Enough of your worthless posts already.