Read this thread and ACT on it...or continue to surrender your sledding rights

[Deep Powder Guy]

I completely disagree keeping the fight at the effected state and local level is the only way to succeed because the guy(s) in Washington DC think ( example: Mt. Jefferson is a monument on Mt. Rushmore ) there clueless .....By having each effected state in control of there public lands the public and users of the land, business owners, elected officials, and local media effected by closures can stay united and attend meeting and be a powerful voice defending there backyard in there backyard...I'm almost certain communities are not loading a bus and heading to DC to be heard.

The guy in Washington DC does not give a hoot about our back yard because the guy in DC does not use our back yard or even know where our back yard is located even if given a map.

***********************************************************************
I belong to an organization called friends of the snake river. Does anyone know how many government approved sewage treatment plants over the past 10 years have been built along the river which are now dumping treated sewage from cities, towns and communities into mountain state lake, rivers and streams ? Yes folks the EPA approved the construction of sewage treatment plants up and down the snake river and colorado river and these sewage treatment plants are discharging into the waterways. Yes folk the same water being used to irrigate produce farms in Idaho, Colorado & Arizona is the same water the EPA is allowing sewage treatment plants to discharge in. As I said before our government is clueless except when it comes to $$$$$.

The EPA claim the water is safe...Ok drink a glass from the point of discharge into the river, stream or lake....FYI I you ever want to catch monster fish just locate the discharge point of a sewage treatment plant along the lake, river or stream.

DPG

 

[Scott]

I have sent it out to all my riding buddies.

Scott do you know if something has been posted at Kurts, Gull or the Arctic Cat shop in Missoula? I do outside sales if somebody did up something i would be happy to take them around and post them up. I am just not really good with computers!

Thanks
Glen

I haven't seen anything.
I'll talk to Curt and see what he will do.

 

[montanasledhead]

Not asking you to fight for me. I think you are going about it WRONG, JMHO.

So the truth is you are NOT making much if any headway, by your own admission...

Anymore we just ride what we want. Let them try to enforce their unconstitutional closures. Meanwhile you worry about the rules they made for you and try to play by them. That means, you are still losing this battle. You need to change tactics in order to win the battle. As long as you keep playing by their rules, you will continue to lose.

This has been going on for decades in other areas of forest use. NEVER has anyone beat them at their own game. You wont this time either.

I'm not sure moving it to the state level is all that desirable. It may help them to effect closures more quickly by circumventing the feds. Be careful what you wish for.

with respect where did I admit we are NOT making headway...
We ARE making headway..

I never once have said it would happen overnight, but at least were doing something proactive instead of reactive.

think snow!!

 

[Scott]

More:

DON'T FORGET AUG 4 IS CLOSING FOR COMMENTS ON OVER THER SNOW VEHICLE USE!!
MAKE IT HAPPEN OR.... LET IT HAPPEN!

https://www.federalregister.gov/art...-by-over-snow-vehicles-travel-management-rule

Stan

 

[montanasledhead]

KEEP THE COMMENTS COMING!!

I hope you all are not adverse to typing because it is imperative that your comments on the Clearwater NF Collaborative Forest Plan cover the key issues.

You are supporting the SPECIAL RECREATION MANAGEMENT AREAS PROPOSED OPTION (SRMA) within the RECOMMENDED WILDERNESS (RWA)

THE KEY ISSUES ARE: no conflict of users in the winter, no proven disruption to wildlife in winter, areas have been used historically by snowmobilers for the past 30 years, The 2012 Forest Planning Rules call for sustainable recreation use, both motorized and non motorized. The 2012 rules also DO NOT prohibit snowmobile use in a Recommended Wilderness )RWA) I will expand on each topic and you can then use the information to form your own comments.
NO CONFLICT: There have been very few sightings of skiers or other winter users in the Gt. Burn. The skiers that were seen have accessed the area via snowmobile.
NO DISRUPTION OF WILDLIFE: While there have been allegations of disruptions to wildlife, there has been absolutely no proof of any disturbances. The hot button has been Goats. To counter the allegations we do know for a fact: a herd of Goats winter on Land Owner Mtn. in the LOLO NF (about 1/2 way from the parking lot and Hoodoo Pass) and are regularly seen about 300 to 400 yards from snowmobiles travelling on the 250 road. (The only access to Hoodoo riding area) The Goats do not display any sort of reaction that would suggest they are disturbed. They have wintered in this area for at least the past 30 years. There has been discussion that snowmobiles are disturbing Goats in the Goat Lake and Blacklead Mtn area. There has never been a sighting of a Goat or a track in this area in the winter. There is an average of over twelve feet of snow in these areas. and Goats can't get around in those snow depths. The Goats absolutely do not winter in the historic snowmobile areas. It would be a safe assumption that hunting Goats would be much more stressful on them than snowmobile activity. Montana Fish and Game has found that snowmobile activity does not correlate with declines of Goat herds. Goat herds are growing in the Crazy Mtns. where snowmobile activity is allowed and herds are declining in the Bob Marshall Wilderness where snowmobiles are not allowed.
The 2012 Travel Plan ROD states that NO evidence of Lynx was found in the Great Burn Area.(2.b. pg 52) The FS wildlife bioligist at a CNF Collaborative meeting stated, as a matter of record, that there is no evidence that snowmobile activity negatively impacts Wolverines.
HISTORIC SNOWMOBILE USE. Snowmobiles have accessed the proposed SPECIAL USE AREAS for over 30 years. During that time there has been no evidence of ecological impact to the Great Burn caused from snowmobiling.
2012 PLANNING RULE: The rule does not prohibit snowmobile activity from a RWA. The guidelies are under section 219.10 (multiple use)..."management of areas recommended for wilderness designation to protect and maintain the ecological and social characteristics that provide the basis for their suitability for wilderness designation". There has been NO evidence of any degradation of ecological and social characteristics over the past 30 years caused by snowmobiles. If there were, the area would not qualify for a RWA designation. The rule also calls for "sustainable recreation that includes non- motorized , motorized...".
My read is historic snowmobile use falls under "sustainable".

To help you get your arms around the 2012 planning rule and Region One treating RWA'S as de facto wilderness it is important to note that that 2012 rule trumps Region One policy. That policy can't (shouldn't) be used after 2012 to close RWA'S to snowmobiling. The legality of the Past Region One policy is being challenged in court by ISSA.

THE PROPOSED ACTION NEEDS ONE MAJOR CHANGE: Several snowmobile areas have been deleted from the maps I sunmitted showing our historic riding areas.
CHANGE: "The Goat Lake and surrounding bowls , Blacklead Mtn including the south facing bowls, Doe Cr. drainage and surrounding bowls, Deer Cr. drainage and surrounding bowls need to be added to the Williams Lake cherry stem access. (SMAGB2)"
This means the riding areas would remain the same but there would be no access from the 581 road from Cayuse Jct.
It is important that you word the change exactly as I have shown. I have already submitted the new map to the FS with changes and ISSA has agreed to the change.

CLOSING REMARKS: I suggest stating the years you have ridden in the Great Burn, how it compares to other areas, where you would find a comparable riding area and why you value the area.(challenge, scenery, solitude).
If you have not ridden the area you can still voice your opinion by stating, at a minimum, that pristine primitive backcountry riding areas are highly valued by a growing segment of snowmobilers and need to be weighted equally for the values the summer users cherish.

Do not overlook that the proposed action ALSO includes 4,162 acres in the Beaver Ridge riding area as well as all the riding areas in the Gt. Burn high country.

Last, but not least: You need to comment on the proposed action prior to SEPT. 15 in order to qualfy to comment on on the future Draft EIS and Final EIS which now includes the appeal/objection process.
SEND E MAIL COMMENTS to: fpr_npclw@fs.fed.us . You can also fax comments to 208 935 4275 Comments need to include your name, Phone# and address The environmentalists have lined up a strong opposition to the proposed action FOR SPECIAL MANAGEMENT AREAS so I can't stress enough that we need to get those comments in to preserve our riding areas. Please feel free to pass this information out to individuals, businesses, and groups who may not receive this email.

I'll be happy to address any questions you may have.
Stan Spencer.

This message was sent to stanspencer@montana.com from:
Stan Spencer | stanspencer@montana.com | Backcountry Sled Patriots | PO Box 5504 | Missoula, Mt 59806

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[WingNutRacing]

yep

Deep powder guy, there is quite a few "thesis" papers that have been published about the effects of snowmobiling on vegetation quality, or, crop quality... they are hard to find... I gave a speech on this topic in an upper division technical writing class at the U here in Missoula, it must have been around 1995, or 96..... The reactions of my liberal enviro-whacko classmates was quite interesting, because, in ALL of the studies, there was no solid evidence of snowmobile activity actually degrading crop quality....... All the studies I researched, or could even find for that matter, were done on north central or north eastern crop land.


As far as the "science" goes, I would say WE WIN.... unfortunately, ,,,,, we all know how well funded and cutthroat these enviro-nazi organizations are, and young liberal people seem to be sheep with no brains, and Missoula is their breeding ground...

It's a shame that science and facts can't trump the very loud voice of our opponents. ..


Thanks to all of you that sent in comments

let it snow...

 

[OuraySledder]

with respect where did I admit we are NOT making headway...
We ARE making headway..

I never once have said it would happen overnight, but at least were doing something proactive instead of reactive.

think snow!!

Really? We are making headway? 5 million new acres of wilderness closures in the last ten years sounds like LOTS of headway for the opposition. Snowmobiles? Not so much...

 

[montanasledhead]

did you send your letters in ?????

 

[Scott]

GOOD NEWS!!!!

 

[Scott]

Latest comment period just ended.

Can't wait to hear....