O
Outlaw
Well-known member
These will have to do until we get the installation directions up on our web site.
Few more to follow.
Polaris Gizmo
- Thread starter turbonium
- Start date
These will have to do until we get the installation directions up on our web site.
Few more to follow.
sled
yep i noticed that on my pro today after i stopped for a minute restarted and it showed 170 then dropped down like crazy.
I will be calling monday i need 6 kits!!!!!!!!!!!!!
yep i noticed that on my pro today after i stopped for a minute restarted and it showed 170 then dropped down like crazy.
I will be calling monday i need 6 kits!!!!!!!!!!!!!
T
Trenchmaster
Well-known member
I read this thread back when it first started so I was watching my temps on the last ride. I think this is probably a good product, because what Outlaw is describing was sure happening on my 08. Wish the price was more reasonable though.
O
Outlaw
Well-known member
Hope everybody had a great New Year. We have been enjoying the several feet of new snow to play in. The new Pro with the Enhancement Kit is running great no problems at all. Currently we have 75 or 80 units on sleds and have been getting great reports. The temps are running a little hotter than everyone is used to but there is no power loss and the cold shot is no longer a concern. We had 9 sleds out New Years day riding in 6 below stopping to film or get sombody unstuck and all the sleds with Enhancement Kits warmed up quicker and had less ice build up on them. Great day, lots of snow and nothing broke.
For everyone that has ordered and installed a kit I hope your winter goes great.
Watch your temps and make sure you warm up your sled to at least 120 before you go WOT with or without the Gizmo.
Thanks
T
For everyone that has ordered and installed a kit I hope your winter goes great.
Watch your temps and make sure you warm up your sled to at least 120 before you go WOT with or without the Gizmo.
Thanks
T
S
Snoweasel
Active member
Well I just ordered 2 kits today, one for my 08D8 and the other for my PRO RMK. I'm going to try it in my D8 first. I burnt up 4 pairs of pistons in 1200 miles, that's 2 pistons every 300 miles....ouch
. The theory behind the GIZMO seems sound. I'm a bit worried about the 160 deg operating temps.
I'll report back after I get some miles on after the install.
. The theory behind the GIZMO seems sound. I'm a bit worried about the 160 deg operating temps. I'll report back after I get some miles on after the install.
If I had a Polaris I think I would have one on it.
G
GMCRMK
Well-known member
The "cold shot" (new term to me) is the real. Stop for a break. Restart at 157degress and boom, down to 90degrees in a few seconds. It's hard to wait till 120 before hitting it again.
So, what are the temps doing on the sleds with "Gizmos"? Do any non-sponshured
users have temp reports? Is the initial restart heat soak temp lower or, is the cold shot temp drop less extreme?
So, what are the temps doing on the sleds with "Gizmos"? Do any non-sponshured
users have temp reports? Is the initial restart heat soak temp lower or, is the cold shot temp drop less extreme?
S
sonday_2
Member
So with this thingy, you just start up to normal temp 100 -126 deg. and go. Is it acting like a front raditor w/o a front raditor.Because after reading the cold shot, I start opening the hood to cool her off when i stop.That way heat can escape and the heads can cool off with the rear raditor.
I think if the price was down to match the PCV which a pcv is a must, for the critical spots. I think sales would booom!! Just like the PCV sky rocketed and probably more in demand.
I think if the price was down to match the PCV which a pcv is a must, for the critical spots. I think sales would booom!! Just like the PCV sky rocketed and probably more in demand.
E
esatk10
New member
as alot of people i was skeptical of the gizmo.shaun from redneck racing explained to me the purpose of the enhancement kit and how it works,and after all the issues the 800 motor has had in recent years i thought i would invest in one.i put 250 miles on my pro before i bought one so i could see the difference with and without it.one very noticeable difference was was the cold shot,after riding for a period of time and stopping for a short breaks,maybe 10 to 15 minutes i noticed the temperature would actually rise while sitting(i assume from the closed piston building heat)then after starting it back up the tempature would drop usually 38 to 45 degrees in about 10 seconds,much quicker than i ever excpected.with the gizmo after about 30 seconds it would only drop about 22 to 27 degrees.before the gizmo in powder at higher elavations maybe 9000 to 10,000 feet my pro was running between 125 and 132 degrees usually and after i put the gizmo on i was running 145 to 152,im not sure but i believe polaris said the optimum running tempature is 160 degrees so i assume im getting more horse power being closer to optimum temperature.i hope they dyno this soon if they havent already so we know what the horespower difference is.even though i was very skeptical at first i believe $300 is a very good investment for a product that stabalizes the temperature as well as this product does.and props to shaun and redneck racing for taking the time to explain how there products work and the great customer servive ! good riding everyone !
I agree with the idea but feel that $300 is way overpriced for what it is. Looks like Ski Doo has a very similar part for their sleds and it is only $22.95.
I saw it on another thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by racerjb View Post
Just curious. Is this a similar thing to what Ski Doo use?
Also I notice the Ski Doo version is about $25. So, I was wondering if it would work on the Polaris and do the same thing as the Gizmo. It is item number 13 in the picture.
If I'm understanding the proper operation of the GIZMO, then IMO, the SkiDoo XP 800R Thermostat would be the same in operational characteristics with the only exception being that the t-stat inside of the Doo housing would open at around 120'-125'F. I am currently looking into customizing the doo t-stat for this application however, I will be eliminating the stock t-stat.
The majority of Doo 1000 SDI owners and a few 07 800R Summit riders have been installing the XP T-stat since it's inception in 2008. Before this, both sleds were plagued with different type of issues such as runnability and reliability.
As far as the Polaris CFI goes and the GIZMO, information such as what is the ECU's commands for fuel and timing based on engine coolant temps in the 150'-175'F range and even higher would certainly be nice to know for certain before I would throw down the money. My reason for this is I doo know that the 800R starts pulling timing out as low as 150'F coolant temps.
At what temps does the Polaris CFI start pulling timing and fuel?
Quote:
Originally Posted by racerjb View Post
Just curious. Is this a similar thing to what Ski Doo use?
Also I notice the Ski Doo version is about $25. So, I was wondering if it would work on the Polaris and do the same thing as the Gizmo. It is item number 13 in the picture.
If I'm understanding the proper operation of the GIZMO, then IMO, the SkiDoo XP 800R Thermostat would be the same in operational characteristics with the only exception being that the t-stat inside of the Doo housing would open at around 120'-125'F. I am currently looking into customizing the doo t-stat for this application however, I will be eliminating the stock t-stat.
The majority of Doo 1000 SDI owners and a few 07 800R Summit riders have been installing the XP T-stat since it's inception in 2008. Before this, both sleds were plagued with different type of issues such as runnability and reliability.
As far as the Polaris CFI goes and the GIZMO, information such as what is the ECU's commands for fuel and timing based on engine coolant temps in the 150'-175'F range and even higher would certainly be nice to know for certain before I would throw down the money. My reason for this is I doo know that the 800R starts pulling timing out as low as 150'F coolant temps.
At what temps does the Polaris CFI start pulling timing and fuel?
W
wysnow
Member
i would like thank say thanks to the people at redneckracing for buliding a product that works. I put one on my 2009 polaris assault and i have yet to burn it down. I went through 10 motors in 1021 miles. Having it on my sled and watching the temps it works. No more big drops from start up.(The spike i have been seeing) so then no more cold shot to the motor. For 300 bucks it is well worth the money. If you don't have war. It cost 1700.00 for a top end. I would pay 300 instead of paying 1700.00. for a top end on my sled. My sled is running better. throttle seams to be way crisp and i am out running and climbing people with the same sleds and set ups as mine. I have over 300 miles on the sled with the kit and loving it. My friend has also put one on his pro 800 2011 and his 2009 assault turbo and they are running great. I would and have told people about this kit it works. Snowest has the same kit on there sled and its a 2011. I know that they wouldn't be trying things that don't work. I think people should watch the temps on there sleds cause they speak for them selfs.
After reading this entire thread... I have a question..
When choosing the actual thermostat to be molded into "the Gizmo"... why did you specify the higher temp rather than one at a lower temp??
When choosing the actual thermostat to be molded into "the Gizmo"... why did you specify the higher temp rather than one at a lower temp??
I was kinda wondering the same thing...
O
Outlaw
Well-known member
Thanks for all the posts and orders. Sorry I have been offline for a while.
The kit is designed to stop the cold shot and equalize the system. If the thermostat in the Gizmo was a different temp then you no longer have a equalized system. We have a few hundred out on sleds all over the US and Canada and have not had a failure. Yes the temps are running higher but everybody that has a kit swears there is more power. We hope to send a sled to Morgan Valley this week and we will see what the Dyno says. I also have seen a few threads regarding drilling extra weep holes in the stock T Stat or changing the temperature of it. I can tell you that in three years of R&D we have tried all of the above. Messing with the stock T Stat will not stop the cold shot. Hope this answers some of the questions.
Ride safe and watch your temps and warm your sled up to 115 to 120 before WOT. This will help but if you stop you will still get a cold shot
So if you do not have a kit, Don't stop
Thanks
T
Thank you for answering questions.
Could you please elaborate on this equalization a little more?
You stated earlier that you R&D'd for 3 years. In that time, did you try a cooler t-stat in your GIZMO and try removing the factory t-stat? It seems to me that by doing this, we wouldn't have the so called equalization issue?
Another if you don't mind...In those 3 years of R&D, were any dyno tests done to verify the "more power" claim or will this weeks dyno test at Morgan Creek be the first?
R
R44guy
Well-known member
Questions about the Gizmo
After talking with a friend about the gizmo we came up with some other things to ponder...and the Possible shortcomings?
1) The bypass line on the Gizmo does not seem to be thermostat controlled. If so, the coolant that flows through the bypass line, when the Gizmo t-stat is open, does NOT flow thru the coolers.. This takes away from the cooling capacity of the sled...ie the ability to shed heat.
2) The "cold shot" that seems to be the focus of the design still occurs on cold start up after sitting for more than a couple of hours outdoors or on initial start-up in the morning... the Gizmo does not do anything about this.
3) I'm as concerned about the "Hot Shot" that the engine gets which, IMO, may be worsened by the Gizmo.
If you have been sitting for a while, the t-stat in the Gizmo is closed by design. The Gizmo gets it "temp signal" at the thermostat-bulb from the cold coolant that has been chilling in the coolers as reported.... with a very small amount of bypass water around the gizmo.
If someone sits and eats a 15 min lunch... the Gizmo t-stat is closed as reported above... upon start-up, if someone goes for an immediate "rip up the hill", the Gizmo will take some time (who knows what this is during operation) to come up to temp as the coolers are only getting this small amount of coolant through the coolers to blend the temps and get the coolers up to temp.
Well on the rip up the hill, the engine thermo is open... and the bypass is flowing 95% of the coolant Until the thermo in the Gizmo cracks-open.
IMO,in this scenario, the engine temps will skyrocket and cause the ECU to go into protection mode... pulling timing and adding fuel. This could pose a problem on a tough climb or technical sidehill above obstacles if the sled hesitates or looses power in this mode.
This fast ramp up of temps before the Gizmo opens is what I'm calling "hot shot"
You will still need to let the sled warm up to temp with the Gizmo installed which some people seem to forget about.
4) The engines and control systems were designed to work at lower temps...
Going into it blindly saying "it seems to work for me" and that the temp thing does not "seem" to be causing the engine to go into protection mode is not showing the whole picture.
...IMO It would be good to see some track dyno numbers running the gizmo for long times (say 5 minutes) at varying throttle positions with the sled operating above 150 degrees... and at what temps the engines seem to be pulling power or putting the sled into protective mode.
5) On the standard RMK's... Redneck is recommending disconnection the fwd tunnel heat exchanger so the bypass can be hooked into the Gizmo. The stock bulkhead cooler is plumbed so that the bypass flow REMAINS cooled during operation.
It is removed, I assume, because there would be no way to run this cooler in the bypass line with out the "cold shot" from that cooler.
In a Gizmo install into a std RMK, the coolant should be routed through this cooler in series with the other cooler.
5) On the Pro RMK's (compared to the Dragons)... the cooling system is smaller in both surface area and liquid capacity.
Diminishing the flow through the tunnel coolers by the amount of liquid that flows through the Bypass-Line is taking away from an already small cooling sytem that was flow/capacity optimized for the engine....Probably more noticeable on a turbo sled.
We have not really come into the warm season yet. But those coastal riders that I know, in this last 50 degree heat-wave have been seeing, have their bone-stock PRO's temp at 150-170+ on the hardpack trail with scratchers down. Riding next to the same length Dragons at 120-135 degrees with scratchers down.
This has to make you wonder about the cooling capacity of a PRO RMK since the cooling arrangements are identical in the two sleds with the only difference being the size of the coolers (larger on the Dragons) and the holes in the snow flap that keep the valuable snow-spray inside the tunnel and not out the holes.
After talking with a friend about the gizmo we came up with some other things to ponder...and the Possible shortcomings?
1) The bypass line on the Gizmo does not seem to be thermostat controlled. If so, the coolant that flows through the bypass line, when the Gizmo t-stat is open, does NOT flow thru the coolers.. This takes away from the cooling capacity of the sled...ie the ability to shed heat.
2) The "cold shot" that seems to be the focus of the design still occurs on cold start up after sitting for more than a couple of hours outdoors or on initial start-up in the morning... the Gizmo does not do anything about this.
3) I'm as concerned about the "Hot Shot" that the engine gets which, IMO, may be worsened by the Gizmo.
If you have been sitting for a while, the t-stat in the Gizmo is closed by design. The Gizmo gets it "temp signal" at the thermostat-bulb from the cold coolant that has been chilling in the coolers as reported.... with a very small amount of bypass water around the gizmo.
If someone sits and eats a 15 min lunch... the Gizmo t-stat is closed as reported above... upon start-up, if someone goes for an immediate "rip up the hill", the Gizmo will take some time (who knows what this is during operation) to come up to temp as the coolers are only getting this small amount of coolant through the coolers to blend the temps and get the coolers up to temp.
Well on the rip up the hill, the engine thermo is open... and the bypass is flowing 95% of the coolant Until the thermo in the Gizmo cracks-open.
IMO,in this scenario, the engine temps will skyrocket and cause the ECU to go into protection mode... pulling timing and adding fuel. This could pose a problem on a tough climb or technical sidehill above obstacles if the sled hesitates or looses power in this mode.
This fast ramp up of temps before the Gizmo opens is what I'm calling "hot shot"
You will still need to let the sled warm up to temp with the Gizmo installed which some people seem to forget about.
4) The engines and control systems were designed to work at lower temps...
Going into it blindly saying "it seems to work for me" and that the temp thing does not "seem" to be causing the engine to go into protection mode is not showing the whole picture.
...IMO It would be good to see some track dyno numbers running the gizmo for long times (say 5 minutes) at varying throttle positions with the sled operating above 150 degrees... and at what temps the engines seem to be pulling power or putting the sled into protective mode.
5) On the standard RMK's... Redneck is recommending disconnection the fwd tunnel heat exchanger so the bypass can be hooked into the Gizmo. The stock bulkhead cooler is plumbed so that the bypass flow REMAINS cooled during operation.
It is removed, I assume, because there would be no way to run this cooler in the bypass line with out the "cold shot" from that cooler.
In a Gizmo install into a std RMK, the coolant should be routed through this cooler in series with the other cooler.
5) On the Pro RMK's (compared to the Dragons)... the cooling system is smaller in both surface area and liquid capacity.
Diminishing the flow through the tunnel coolers by the amount of liquid that flows through the Bypass-Line is taking away from an already small cooling sytem that was flow/capacity optimized for the engine....Probably more noticeable on a turbo sled.
We have not really come into the warm season yet. But those coastal riders that I know, in this last 50 degree heat-wave have been seeing, have their bone-stock PRO's temp at 150-170+ on the hardpack trail with scratchers down. Riding next to the same length Dragons at 120-135 degrees with scratchers down.
This has to make you wonder about the cooling capacity of a PRO RMK since the cooling arrangements are identical in the two sleds with the only difference being the size of the coolers (larger on the Dragons) and the holes in the snow flap that keep the valuable snow-spray inside the tunnel and not out the holes.
just a reply to number 3. Technicaly if you are starting your engine first thing in the morning this would not be a cold shot. because the engine is cold to begin with. same thing if its shut off for 3 or 4 hours.
