one more year for cat to test the supposed new sled

[bgraff1]

Literally just went on the cat site. The only thing on there that is new is the clutches, ON THE WEBSITE.
It doesn't say anything about body panel width.
Doesn't say anything about boards. Look the same to me.
Doesn't say anything about track attack angle.
Dunno what is new about the 800 engine either from the website.
Doesn't say anything about what's new or great about the qs3 vs the qs2 I have.

Again, I'm not saying they aren't updates. But you have to hunt the updates down.
So that sounds like ****ty marketing to me???


If you've seriously never seen a khaos video I cant really believe the rest of what you're saying, because that sounds like tunnelvision bullshiz to me. I've watched videos on ALL the brands and had bad luck with skidoo, and the cat dealer local to me doesn't even stock them, so kinda wasn't a real option unless I wanted to wait for every single part to be ordered in vs most common parts available for skidoo and polaris.

If you got 3 alphas brand new for under 9k please tell me where I will go max the credit card out on 4 of them and resell them.

yes because the clutches are new THIS YEAR. go back to 2017 when the mountain cat was introduced to read about the dropped chain case and better approach angle. go back to 2018 if you want to read about the narrower panels/running boards/shocks/new motor. go back to 2019 if you want to read about the alpha launch and benefits of 3.5" pitch track. no such thing as a QS2 shock also so not sure what your getting at there. this was all advertised the years they were released, not our fault you didnt pay attention or do research as to how a 2022 differs from your 2015. you cant expect them to keep advertising the same changes every year as "new", just because it isnt listed on the 2022 models doesnt mean everything that was listed (again, in comparison to your 2015) didnt happen.

 

[chickenstixx]

There’s 2 on ksl today jackazz.

One less than Sunday cuz my daughter grabbed it.

Seriously?

You’re Irrelevant if you haven’t watched a khaos video?

I ride with them, why bother?

Damn, no wonder cat is a dying breed. Their riders can't really read very well. I said NEW. Those are a 2019 and a 2020. Which makes them not new.

No I'm discounting your opinion since it's apparent you have cat tunnel vision or something.

My bad, have float 3's on the 2016's

Meh, all this thread does is prove the point why cat is dying. ****ty marketing, literally the worst steering thats been the worst for nearly a decade, the ****tiest boards of all 3 brands, and now ****ty attacks from strangers on the internet. ??

 

[IDspud]

So you’re saying there’s no advancements yet you can’t try a used to see if you like the new?

There’s a difference between tunnel vision and not giving a crap what’s on the television.

I’ll take real world experience over your marketing videos any day.

 

[kiliki]

Just go's to show Polaris can sell cancer with a 4 year warranty. Cat can't give away the cure with their marketing... Imagine you ate chili cheese fries covered in jalapeños and whiskey all night. You have a wet piece of toilet paper with a 4 year warranty. Or a paper towel to make you to the end of the run. Bad decision lead to ****ty places. ?

 

[Dam Dave]

Sure a lot of Poo and Doo whiners in the Cat section?

 

[kidwoo]

Which 800 was more reliable?
Suzuki or cats inhouse motor?



How does the cat chassis compare to the axsys as far as sidehilling goes?.

Its interesting that i came back to snowest a fan of Arctic cat, and just the little bit ive read about performance and reliability i was shifted towards Polaris again.


The sled world has changed a bunch in 15 years. I want to get back into it with a chassis that will open up my tree riding game where i left off in 2005.

The zuke 800 was more reliable but it also was a dirtier running motor due to throttle body injection and running more sloppy. Running dirtier was part of the longevity though. HOWEVER, the ctec 800 and clutching is a very noticeably stronger package in terms of performance. Cat's 800 still puts more power down than a polaris 850 IMO.

Nothing touches the polaris sleds for sidehill performance. It's not skidoo level dumb, but the way cat angles their front suspension is still a trail sled design. Ever notice how the skis flop over more and push rather than bite just moving around at 2mph on hard snow on a cat? They're way more stable at speed but that flop causes them to push at low speed turns and give the sled a really bad flop over point when sidehilling.....all in the name of not high siding as easily when mobbing on groomers.

You'll notice that bigger, stronger guys usually end up with doos or cats because you kinda need to muscle them around in trees since neither is a technique based riding style, and both put the polaris sleds to shame power-wise. Handling-wise the cats are between a doo and poo but you can counter steer a cat at least, although not as well as a polaris.

Both doo and cat are way better jumpers than polaris. I used to be able to jump anything on my proclimb and I can't jump for shlt on my axys. But I can weave all kinds of sidehill lines way easier than the other two.

A cat alpha with that version of a powerclaw is the standard for traction, even though it doesn't sidehill or J-turn worth a damn on stiff snow.


Pick your poison. But at 5'8" I can move a polaris around way way easier in slower techy spots on a steep sidehill. And I can yank it out of holes with my muscles easier when I do something stupid. Just my two pennies.

 

[sno*jet]

^ you must be talking about a twin rail. the single beam is perfect for lighter riders who want to mountain ride deep snow. just like the spindle angle vs. the older trail/race setup. my .02

 

[CB_Rob]

The zuke 800 was more reliable but it also was a dirtier running motor due to throttle body injection and running more sloppy. Running dirtier was part of the longevity though. HOWEVER, the ctec 800 and clutching is a very noticeably stronger package in terms of performance. Cat's 800 still puts more power down than a polaris 850 IMO.

Nothing touches the polaris sleds for sidehill performance. It's not skidoo level dumb, but the way cat angles their front suspension is still a trail sled design. Ever notice how the skis flop over more and push rather than bite just moving around at 2mph on hard snow on a cat? They're way more stable at speed but that flop causes them to push at low speed turns and give the sled a really bad flop over point when sidehilling.....all in the name of not high siding as easily when mobbing on groomers.

You'll notice that bigger, stronger guys usually end up with doos or cats because you kinda need to muscle them around in trees since neither is a technique based riding style, and both put the polaris sleds to shame power-wise. Handling-wise the cats are between a doo and poo but you can counter steer a cat at least, although not as well as a polaris.

Both doo and cat are way better jumpers than polaris. I used to be able to jump anything on my proclimb and I can't jump for shlt on my axys. But I can weave all kinds of sidehill lines way easier than the other two.

A cat alpha with that version of a powerclaw is the standard for traction, even though it doesn't sidehill or J-turn worth a damn on stiff snow.


Pick your poison. But at 5'8" I can move a polaris around way way easier in slower techy spots on a steep sidehill. And I can yank it out of holes with my muscles easier when I do something stupid. Just my two pennies.

Curious as to what is different with jumps?
Take offs, mid flight or landing?
I barely ever caught enough air to need to throttle or brake mid air

 

[kidwoo]

Curious as to what is different with jumps?
Take offs, mid flight or landing?
I barely ever caught enough air to need to throttle or brake mid air

I just spent so many years on cats I got used to the weight and lower front end. I think the cats are easier to setup the rear of the skid to stay supportive off lips/ramps. But I've also never really spent time trying to setup the rear of my polaris with an air shock to make it more progressive. Seems like I'm always getting front end high/squashing out the rear skid shock in compressions taking off with my axys. I'm talking lips and going up only, not just dropping off stuff. Oh yeah, the suspension on the cats blows away anything that comes on polaris sleds IMO, although the velocity/khaos shocks are okay.

I'm far from the only person who's noticed this.

 

[kidwoo]

^ you must be talking about a twin rail. the single beam is perfect for lighter riders who want to mountain ride deep snow. just like the spindle angle vs. the older trail/race setup. my .02

Not entirely but I did own twin rails and have only ridden an alpha belonging to someone else. You'll also notice I said the alpha is the standard for deep snow traction......... But admittedly I do have way more time on twin rails so probably worth mentioning.

Depending on what part of my post specifically you mean, I'm mostly talking about the characteristics of the front geo, regardless of the rails. It's pretty easy to see. Just park a cat (any newer cat) with the 2016 and up spindles next to a polaris on ice or soft spring snow, and just turn the handlebars and see who can turn the tightest just keeping the sleds flat. The steeper angle of the polaris will get more bite, while cat will push more. You don't even need to do that, just look at the angle of the skis at full stop between the two.

either way, I'm as excited as anyone to see a new chassis, for those and several other reasons

 

[boondocker97]

So even if the new platform and engine options are ready for 2023, with supply issues that don't seem to be getting any better, what are the chances they are only available in limited numbers?

 

[kidwoo]

So even if the new platform and engine options are ready for 2023, with supply issues that don't seem to be getting any better, what are the chances they are only available in limited numbers?

heh

very good point

 

[hansenmac]

limited release wouldnt be too bad, if there are gremlins they will be limited to a smaller amount of people then could be fixed for a full release. I love my mtn cat so i have no problem getting into an alpha for a few years but im just anxious to see what the next progression or next New sled might be.

 

[CB_Rob]

Not entirely but I did own twin rails and have only ridden an alpha belonging to someone else. You'll also notice I said the alpha is the standard for deep snow traction......... But admittedly I do have way more time on twin rails so probably worth mentioning.

Depending on what part of my post specifically you mean, I'm mostly talking about the characteristics of the front geo, regardless of the rails. It's pretty easy to see. Just park a cat (any newer cat) with the 2016 and up spindles next to a polaris on ice or soft spring snow, and just turn the handlebars and see who can turn the tightest just keeping the sleds flat. The steeper angle of the polaris will get more bite, while cat will push more. You don't even need to do that, just look at the angle of the skis at full stop between the two.

either way, I'm as excited as anyone to see a new chassis, for those and several other reasons

Is the ski position you speak of basically caster?
Polaris spindle more vertical and cat with more caster?
And that affects sidehilling abilities?

 

[gp800]

He is talking about caster and it does make a difference. 12-15 has more negative caster meaning the top of the spindle is further forward than the 16+. This is not a perfect illustration but you can see when the sled was grey the spindle was more laid back (16+) compared to the picture where it is wrapped being stood up straighter(12-15). Only change was the upper arm.

 

[frozenfarmer]

He is talking about caster and it does make a difference. 12-15 has more negative caster meaning the top of the spindle is further forward than the 16+. This is not a perfect illustration but you can see when the sled was grey the spindle was more laid back compared to the picture where it is wrapped being stood up straighter. Only change was the upper arm.

They both have positive caster. The 16+ is more positive camber, and the earlier was a lesser positive camber.

straight up and down is 0 degrees.

Positive is the top pivot point being toward the rear of the vehicle in side view compared to the bottom pivot.

Negative has the top pivot forward of the bottom pivot.

 

[gp800]

They both have positive caster. The 16+ is more positive camber, and the earlier was a lesser positive camber.

straight up and down is 0 degrees.

Positive is the top pivot point being toward the rear of the vehicle in side view compared to the bottom pivot.

Negative has the top pivot forward of the bottom pivot.

Is that not what I said In the sentence "12-15 has more negative caster meaning the top of the spindle is further forward than the 16+." ???

 

[kidwoo]

LOL, yeah you guys are talking about the same thing

I'm going to be a dick though and say no! I meant rake!

No sled has zero or negative caster, it's not a matter of both being positive. It's a matter of to what degree.

I was actually trying at one point to get one of the aftermarket guys to design some a-arms and spindles that would have tried to address this. But that's the way cat dealt with the 'heavy steering' of the 2012 design. It worked but caused some other issues.

Look at a polaris 155 next to a cat 153 on a sled deck or trailer sometime sitting next to each other where you can use the ski bar/clamp and front of the bed for reference. It's pretty easy to see. And you can tell why the cat ends up being longer with driver axle and track being relatively similarly positioned.

Anyway, I just hope it's something that they address on any new chassis.....among many many other things

 

[boondocker97]

limited release wouldnt be too bad, if there are gremlins they will be limited to a smaller amount of people then could be fixed for a full release. I love my mtn cat so i have no problem getting into an alpha for a few years but im just anxious to see what the next progression or next New sled might be.

If it's developed as far as it is claimed to be a limited early spring release like ski-doo did with their turbo sled would be nice to see. Get some ride reports out there and generate some buzz about them. We know the marketing department isn't capable of doing that on their own . With some sled deliveries pushed out to Feb/March though like I heard it's going to make those machines almost worthless on arrival. Might not even be able to get the parts for early releases anyway???

 

[sno*jet]

funny that anybody with a 12-15 sled wants to do upgrades, the first thing usually mentioned is to put the 16+ front end on it. Not just for the narrowness. The pos. caster is one of the reasons people say the cats cross tracked up sidehills the smoothest.