Is 24 the last year for the 850???

[simnil]

The problem with going with the lightweight crank is you could lose some rpm holding abilities.

Now you are confusing performance sleds with 60-70 years old 3cyl 30 hp diesel farm tractors that needed 50-100kg fly wheels not to stall all the time!

If your sled wont hold RPMs the clutching is off, it's not because something is too light...
If stuff get "too light" usually the idle needs to be higher to avoid erratic engine speed, other than that lighter is always better, as long as everything holds up that is.

The 800s were made up till -23, or? My guess, based on that, is that the 850 has some years left in it still.

 

[Teth-Air]

Well, hate to say it but the lack of oil is not a failure of the motor. Engine failure was a symptom of the problem.


It's a massive failure on Polaris quality control.

But if you block the oil lines on any engine, it will not run long.

Maybe the $3k extra for the 9R is to pay for someone to double check every aspect of the build.

 

[cateye5312]

I'm betting the build cost between an 850 and a 9R is very minimal. Just like in every product line they build Polaris focuses on the top end models because that's where the margins are. Look at the poor 550 fanner. Polaris is the only one still using such old tech as far as I know and it looks like it will be that way for awhile. I love my 850 NA but all of my smaller sleds ( utility, kids ) are all slowly migrating to Doo. It drives me nuts to still be choking engines and smoking the hell out of the neighborhood when starting one up cold at home. I still have two Voyaguers and one Evo to replace then I am done with Poo's old tech and moving to another brand. That also means that all my grandkids are going to grow up riding Doo.

 

[BeartoothBaron]

I'm betting the build cost between an 850 and a 9R is very minimal. Just like in every product line they build Polaris focuses on the top end models because that's where the margins are. Look at the poor 550 fanner. Polaris is the only one still using such old tech as far as I know and it looks like it will be that way for awhile. I love my 850 NA but all of my smaller sleds ( utility, kids ) are all slowly migrating to Doo. It drives me nuts to still be choking engines and smoking the hell out of the neighborhood when starting one up cold at home. I still have two Voyaguers and one Evo to replace then I am done with Poo's old tech and moving to another brand. That also means that all my grandkids are going to grow up riding Doo.

Could you buy a Pro 600 and put the EVO seat, tank, and bars on it? For the price of an EVO, I'd probably buy and older sled and mod it to fit the rider - if I had kids. Still, the 550 is a good motor if the power level is where you need it (and most kids don't need more). I still love carbs, especially on a cheap yard sled. They can sit for five years - drain the gas, take the carbs and fuel pump apart and clean them, and they run like new (if they're not rusty). You're probably replacing half the fuel system on an EFI sled if it sits that long. If I ever have a kid and he/she doesn't want to learn how carbs work and won't ride a sled with them, I'm disowning them. Still, Polaris could easily offer something like the Doo 600 - just use the 600 CFI as a basis, drop the VES, and simplify as much as possible.

Anyway, a lot of the early 850 failures were from a blocked oil line, and I can't believe that's still happening. They must have chimpanzees running the assembly line. Even IndyDan had a lot of praise for the 850 when it came out, and every indication is that the design really is pretty good. Some people are getting tons of miles out of them, but it's unfortunate some are still blowing, and because of unforced errors (lack of QC). Someone here was talking about the old days when some guys would tear a brand new sled apart and re-assemble it - partly to tweak it, but also to find and fix assembly errors. It might be time to go back to those old ways... Now, why can't Polaris just offer a snowcheck option where you get a crate of parts and put it together yourself?

 

[Vern]

Dealership told my buddy that his matryx 850 failure appeared to be that the pin that keeps the piston rings in place fell out allowing the ring to spin, and I’m ussuming snag a port or something. All I know is it was hard starting that morning then made it 3-4 hours into the ride before locking up. So obviously the damage had begun prior to the ride that it finally locked up. We pulled on that thing for a good 10-15 minutes to get it fired up that morning, but it had seemed to be running fine when parked the night before.

 

[cateye5312]

Dealership told my buddy that his matryx 850 failure appeared to be that the pin that keeps the piston rings in place fell out allowing the ring to spin, and I’m ussuming snag a port or something. All I know is it was hard starting that morning then made it 3-4 hours into the ride before locking up. So obviously the damage had begun prior to the ride that it finally locked up. We pulled on that thing for a good 10-15 minutes to get it fired up that morning, but it had seemed to be running fine when parked the night before.

I had the same thing happen to a 2018 800. Locating pin broke and holy crap what a mess it made on the inside of that engine! New head, new cylinder, new pistons , a whole bunch of parts - ugh. All because of a very small pin that failed.

 

[Vern]

I had the same thing happen to a 2018 800. Locating pin broke and holy crap what a mess it made on the inside of that engine! New head, new cylinder, new pistons , a whole bunch of parts - ugh. All because of a very small pin that failed.

Definitely doesn’t take much to cause catastrophe in sled engines. Luckily his should be covered under warranty

 

[couch]

Cheap labour / poor quality control ... unfortunately it's not limited to poo ...just received one of the Cummins QSL9 units I ordered in July and whoever painted it must have been drunk or first day on job ...runs everwhere and practically every tag and connection on the wiring loom was painted over ... pathetic to say the least ....

Sent from my motorola edge plus using Tapatalk

 

[chevy_man]

Cheap labour / poor quality control ... unfortunately it's not limited to poo ...just received one of the Cummins QSL9 units I ordered in July and whoever painted it must have been drunk or first day on job ...runs everwhere and practically every tag and connection on the wiring loom was painted over ... pathetic to say the least ....

Sent from my motorola edge plus using Tapatalk

That's pretty standard for them. The number of tags I've had to try and read through 1/4" of paint is dumb.

 

[rulonjj]

Now you are confusing performance sleds with 60-70 years old 3cyl 30 hp diesel farm tractors that needed 50-100kg fly wheels not to stall all the time!

If your sled wont hold RPMs the clutching is off, it's not because something is too light...
If stuff get "too light" usually the idle needs to be higher to avoid erratic engine speed, other than that lighter is always better, as long as everything holds up that is.

The 800s were made up till -23, or? My guess, based on that, is that the 850 has some years left in it still.

Weight still plays a part in it. A certain amount of weight (torque) is required to keep rpm consistent.

 

[chevy_man]

Weight still plays a part in it. A certain amount of weight (torque) is required to keep rpm consistent.

No.

When the engine is past the torque peak (which happens below 5k) the horsepower is king.

There is an effect of flywheel weight, which will slightly delay bogging under load. The problem with flywheel weight is that it hurts when trying to rev just as much as it helps when it's fighting bogging.

My theory on why the 850 feels more powerful at 8500 but doesn't show it on the dyno is simply more power pulses power second. Flywheel weight doesn't mean anything if there's not enough power to keep driving it, and the faster you can hit it with power the better off you are.

 

[Bmwn52882]

I think part of the upcharge is to cover more warranty claims. I think back when the 850 appeared, the plan all along was to drop the
800: nothing in common between the engines, and Polaris figured they'd do whatever was needed to match the 800, in warranty claims at least (they did make changes for '20, obviously), but keep the 800 initially for the hesitant.


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[MARV1]

850 is better than the 800! Add dual ring pistons and it better yet