If you wear an "ABS Bag" or "Similar" aren't you part of the problem ?
- Thread starter Original Tetonice
- Start date
OT you never defined 'the problem' which as it turns out was just a lead-in to a whole crap-load of flawed logic and statements meant to piss people off. I'm not sure why you would want to piss everyone off, but that's your choice not mine.
'The Problem' isn't people wearing airbags. The problem is people that go into the backcountry without the proper knowledge, training and gear. Riders that wear airbags are most likely also wearing beacons and carrying shovels and probes. They know that they are about to venture into avalanche country, they have educated themselves about the dangers, and they are going in prepared for the worst case scenario. You simply cannot ride in the mtns without some degree of avalanche risk. Any slope over 30 degrees (and sometimes down to 25 degrees) that has snow on it has the potential to avalanche under the right conditions. So in order to COMPLETELY avoid the possiblility of an avalanche you must stay off all slopes of 25 degrees or greater, stay out from under any slopes of 25 degrees or greater, and never ride on any slopes attached to a slope of 25 degrees or greater. Can that be done? Yes, and it must be done during dangerous conditions. But it also completely defeats the point of going into the mtns for most people. Luckily for us during most years the snowpack is stable 90% of the time, allowing us to have a blast doing what we love on steep slopes with endless powder. We read the avalanche reports, we look for signs of instabilities (whumphing, shooting cracks, evidence of recent avalanches) and WE GO IN PREPARED, WITH THE RIGHT GEAR. Does this mean none of us that go in prepared will ever get caught in a slide? No. But it does mean that we are lowering our level of risk as much as possible, and we have the best tools currently available for when things go wrong, or we make a mistake.
Of course there will always be some jagoff that buys an airbag and thinks it means he can ride anywhere anytime. Just the same as the idiot who thinks that just because they have a 4-wheel drive vehicle they can drive 75 on icy roads. It has been said many times on this forum 'you can't fix stupid'. But for the rest of us making sure that we have the best knowledge and equipment available is something that we owe ourselves and our loved ones.
'The Problem' isn't people wearing airbags. The problem is people that go into the backcountry without the proper knowledge, training and gear. Riders that wear airbags are most likely also wearing beacons and carrying shovels and probes. They know that they are about to venture into avalanche country, they have educated themselves about the dangers, and they are going in prepared for the worst case scenario. You simply cannot ride in the mtns without some degree of avalanche risk. Any slope over 30 degrees (and sometimes down to 25 degrees) that has snow on it has the potential to avalanche under the right conditions. So in order to COMPLETELY avoid the possiblility of an avalanche you must stay off all slopes of 25 degrees or greater, stay out from under any slopes of 25 degrees or greater, and never ride on any slopes attached to a slope of 25 degrees or greater. Can that be done? Yes, and it must be done during dangerous conditions. But it also completely defeats the point of going into the mtns for most people. Luckily for us during most years the snowpack is stable 90% of the time, allowing us to have a blast doing what we love on steep slopes with endless powder. We read the avalanche reports, we look for signs of instabilities (whumphing, shooting cracks, evidence of recent avalanches) and WE GO IN PREPARED, WITH THE RIGHT GEAR. Does this mean none of us that go in prepared will ever get caught in a slide? No. But it does mean that we are lowering our level of risk as much as possible, and we have the best tools currently available for when things go wrong, or we make a mistake.
Of course there will always be some jagoff that buys an airbag and thinks it means he can ride anywhere anytime. Just the same as the idiot who thinks that just because they have a 4-wheel drive vehicle they can drive 75 on icy roads. It has been said many times on this forum 'you can't fix stupid'. But for the rest of us making sure that we have the best knowledge and equipment available is something that we owe ourselves and our loved ones.
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550iq
Well-known member
Everything said here is pure speculation as you have not died, yet. All the safety equipment noted will not save you, but it will help find your body afterwards. The realities of seeing these pitiful "tools" rendered useless in saving and finding my dad buried and killed under 30 feet of snow was an eye opener. Try magnatometer and ground scan radar sweeps and wide pad D-6 and JD 350 dozers for recovery tools. Not to mention the fact that it took seven days to find him.
The ugly truth in all this is avalanche talk ends in a simple rule of thumb: See Slope, See Slide. If you cannot "see" the slide happening on any slope, you will meet the "beast".
The ugly truth in all this is avalanche talk ends in a simple rule of thumb: See Slope, See Slide. If you cannot "see" the slide happening on any slope, you will meet the "beast".
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Sako7STW
Well-known member
OT...you're a riot!I wish I had bait like yours...you probably catch the biggest fish outta the lakes too!
I was thinking the same thing.
You bored today OT or what? Just had to stir the pot huh? Is the sled in the shop so your taking your wo's out here?
Thats very sad to hear...
Are the bag manufacturers using real world info like this case in their stats?
OT, tell me. have you ever put yourself at risk of being involved in an avalanche? if you ride in the mountains you have! beacons have saved many lives! packs have too! tell me, if a guy with no beacon or pack and a guy who does all go out into the hills to sled...who has the higher chance of surviving? it is a no brainer! please do us all a favor and pull your head out!
Why does anyone reply to this jackazz, thats all he wants is to get people going. Nobody can be that nieve or ignorate. He must live in a bubble because you can get hurt or killed doing anything( crossing street, falling in hole, slipping on ice,etc...) so he must be against everything. Don't reply to him eventually he'll maybe stop.
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PowderProject
Well-known member
OT why did you start this thread?
Is an Avalung part of the problem?
I was thinking about buying an avalung in addition to the airbag and beacon I already wear, but after the great wisdom I've gained from this post I figure I'll be fine with the standard 15 minutes of life you usually get when buried. Yes, i don't think most of the time you would have the time to get the snorkel in your mouth, but I could see a situation where two guys could be digging each other out and have a slide break above them. Sleds are stuck might as well have another tool in case. Would an avalung also be part of "the problem"? Jay Almos got killed years back in a similar scenario. Who knows how it may have ended up if he had the tools.
I was thinking about buying an avalung in addition to the airbag and beacon I already wear, but after the great wisdom I've gained from this post I figure I'll be fine with the standard 15 minutes of life you usually get when buried. Yes, i don't think most of the time you would have the time to get the snorkel in your mouth, but I could see a situation where two guys could be digging each other out and have a slide break above them. Sleds are stuck might as well have another tool in case. Would an avalung also be part of "the problem"? Jay Almos got killed years back in a similar scenario. Who knows how it may have ended up if he had the tools.
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PowderProject
Well-known member
C'mon OT enlighten us....
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wow OT, I thought the boost at idle thread was the dumbest thing I have ever read.
I think you just raised the bar......kudos
wow OT, I thought the boost at idle thread was the dumbest thing I have ever read.
I think you just raised the bar......kudos
Perhapes the next time you ride you need to examine your riding habits which would explain your need for an airbag to save your azz in the backcountry.
Your riding tools are not a license to thrill. Your decision(s) you make and the awarness of the terrain at the moment keeps you alive in the backcountry. If you rely on your " avy tools" your packing them along for all the wrong reasons.
One avy airbag company claims "200 plus lives saved" what they don't advertise is out of the 200 saved, how many of the avy's were human triggered ? My guess would be a very high %.
Treading Lightly Saves Lives
OT
Your riding tools are not a license to thrill. Your decision(s) you make and the awarness of the terrain at the moment keeps you alive in the backcountry. If you rely on your " avy tools" your packing them along for all the wrong reasons.
One avy airbag company claims "200 plus lives saved" what they don't advertise is out of the 200 saved, how many of the avy's were human triggered ? My guess would be a very high %.
Treading Lightly Saves Lives
OT
OT, you need to go to the proctologist and get your head examined.
OT...you're a riot!
this is just OT trying to get a campfire started. He is just trying to throw some gas on the smoldering fire..........
He is just trying to provoke thought in the only way OT can
Only OT can get a debate like this going....
The problem is most of the reponses come from junior members that don't understand OTs methods.....Seems anymore it is so easy to get everybode wound up qicker the JJ's vibrator....
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PowderProject
Well-known member
You poor man. Are you in need of some psychiatric help? All you are doing is pissing people off.
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