I thought price fixing was illegal

[donbrown]

I can't believe what I'm reading from some people. Lobbying for communism?

Are you sure you want to open this can of worms?

Okay I'll bite praytell what form of government and society does the United States have?

I am so glad I have you during the off season.

 

[winter brew]

Has anyone considered that this will now be "the way things are"??? We have finally just cought up with the rest of the world as far as fuel prices go, I don't hear about many other countries feeling sorry for us. Perhaps we have just been spoiled Americans for too long and never given things like food and fuel costs a second thought? At least we still have food and fuel.
Is the party over?

 

[Good to Go]

I can't believe what I'm reading from some people. Lobbying for communism?

Are you sure you want to open this can of worms?

Okay I'll bite praytell what form of government and society does the United States have?

I am so glad I have you during the off season.

He didn't open the 'can' of worms... he's responding to the numerous calls for saving by the government.

"Save me, it's not FAAAAAIR!!" screamed the socialist. Yea, momma said life ain't fair. Did some not learn that???

 

[donbrown]

He didn't open the 'can' of worms... he's responding to the numerous calls for saving by the government.

"Save me, it's not FAAAAAIR!!" screamed the socialist. Yea, momma said life ain't fair. Did some not learn that???

So what form of government does the USA have?

More importantly how does this get us to use our sleds more?

Why would you think having the government save us is a form of communism?


"I am too high-born to be propertied,
To be a secondary at control,
Or useful serving-man and instrument
To any sovereign state throughout the world."

"Nemo me impune lacesset"

Just had to do the Google search.

 

[Dare-Ya]

Mountainhorse, I'm not asking you to endorse the Czech president's environmental policies. I just happen to agree with alot of what he said. You are right about the majority of us being somewhere in the middle on the environment. There is a difference between environmentalists and big corporations. One employs millions of middle americans, the other is trying to dictate how those middle americans should live. I agree there are the few in every group that give negative press to the others. I don't think that any of us differ to widely in our views of the price of oil, or what to do about it for that matter, but those with the loudest voices and numerous lawyers (aka enviro nuts) are suceeding pushing their agendas through, because middle americans like you and me aren't being heard. I know where all my local politicians stand on these issues, and you can bet I vote accordingly. No I don't trust the government, they got us to where we are today, and I'm not Bush bashing either. At least he tried.

 

[mountainhorse]

"Saving" by our government is not something that will EVER happen...

Increased fuel prices WILL push the increased oil exploration domestically, only because there is more money to be made from a risky endeavor.... not because the oil companies want to lower fuel prices.

I agree with Winter Brew. THIS IS THE WAY THINGS ARE NOW.

That trip from MN to Togwotee, or WA to Revy in 08/09 will cost you double for gas, more for food, more for oil, more for hotel.

This change in the "lifeblood of our country", oil, will have an economic ripple effect in our contry as your truck is too expensive to drive, your purchases which are transported with diesel by plane, train and truck. The lights in the stores cost more, the electricity in your shop costs more.

The adjustment period as we change the way we drive, what and how much we consume and what jobs are lost and created from this major economic shift will be painful to most Americans except the very wealthy.

The middle class was not here in the US in any appreciable numbers until after WWII. The MC is shrinking by all accounts and it's not because of "bleeding heart liberals" or "right wing extremists" it is because the "owners" in the country [Donkeys and Elephants alike] are coming back to the same economic equilibrium that has been part of this country since it was founded and before.

I work for wealthy people, some very wealthy (I'm poor like the rest of you). There are getting to be larger numbers of the "haves" as well as more of the "have nots" with the middle getting squeezed thin.

If McCain wins or Obama wins... they will have a gigantic mess on their hands...

Basic economics... if the price of fuel for product distribution increases then so will the products. If you buy fewer products because the price is higher (I'm already watching what I buy at the grocery store) people will loose their jobs. If it costs you twice as much to drive to work, you will have less money to spend on products and services... more people will be out of jobs.

End-user fuel prices are key to our national security, both in terms of defense and our economic strength in the world. If the govt can’t get involved in issues of National Security then what are we doing in Iraq?

Two possible scenarios,

1) Our Government gets involved in stabilizing the price of end-user-fuel soon

OR

2) We progress towards a full blown recession.

The big thing that sucks is that OUR Govt here in the USA will make a mess of the situation if/when they get MORE involved than they already are. The bureacracy of both parties wastes more than it does good with.

We as citenzens have to do something about that and change the way our government works... by most accounts it's "broken" now and we need to "fix it". And NO, it is NOT Bushes fault... that would be asinine to think that one man, who is run by the Bureaucracy defines our country and it's policies

Fuel/Gas prices are not just related to gassin up the ole Cummins diesel and filling up your Cutler 1150 or Stuthers 860 ... It's heating oil for our schools/hospitals/homes, transportation of our groceries, gas for our police cars, Transport of livestock, fuel for the combines that harvest our crops, natural gas that makes our electricity that powers refrigerators and water pumps. Electricity that processes our waste. Electricity that makes Lockheed cruise missiles and fighter jets, the fuel to mine, harvest and process raw resources for use in manufacturing... the list goes on and on.

Our country, its corporations, its consumers, and its public works are directly affected by the cost of oil.

Increasing the price of an item will drive down the demand for that item.

The record profits of the oil companies are oneof the reasons that the end product costs so much.

Dogmeat brought up a good point... the oil companies are buying up their own stock... it is because they KNOW that it will be worth much more in the very near future.

Conservation and reduced usage of oil products and exploration in alternative sources are the long term change that will have a more profound effect on our economy, security and global peace.

I've heard some pretty interesting stuff fly out of peoples mouths lately like
"Bomb those towel head, pave their fawking country over, put a fence around their country and run pipelines out" .... Well, we better get our children fitted for gas masks and Kevlar now if that is our attitude. We don't seem to want to admit it in our country, but we are willing to go to war over oil in foreign lands.... especially at $10 per gallon of Diesel.

 

[mountainhorse]

A sincere question.

Can someone on here tell me what the percentage of increase in profits is of our Domestic Gasoline/fuel suppliers has been in the last year?

 

[Dare-Ya]

A sincere question.

Can someone on here tell me what the percentage of increase in profits is of our Domestic Gasoline/fuel suppliers has been in the last year?

They make 7.5 cents on every dollar.

 

[mountainhorse]

Dare-Ya, Thanks

Ok.. 7.5 cents on every dollar...

What is the increase in the number of dollars they have been receiveing since last year?

What is the % increase in the profit per gallon of gas?
Diesel?
JP-5?

BTW, what is the info source?

 

[donbrown]

"Saving" by the government is not something that will EVER happen...

Increased fuel prices WILL push the increased oil exploration domestically, only because there is more money to be made from a risky endeavor.... not because the oil companies want to lower fuel prices.

I agree with Winter Brew. THIS IS THE WAY THINGS ARE NOW.

The trip from MN to Togwotee in 08/09 will cost you double for gas, more for food, more for oil, more for hotel.

This change in the "lifeblood of our country", oil, will have an economic ripple effect on our economy as your truck is too expensive to drive, your purchases which are transported with diesel by plane, train and truck. The lights in the stores cost more, the electricity in your shop costs more.

The adjustment period as we change the way we drive, what and how much we consume and what jobs are lost and created from this major economic shift will be painful to most Americans except the very wealthy.

The middle class was not here in the US in any appreciable numbers until after WWII. The MC is shrinking by all accounts and it's not because of "bleeding heart liberals" or "right wing extremists" it is because the "owners" in the country [Donkeys and Elephants alike] are coming back to the same economic equilibrium that has been part of this country since it was founded and before.

I work for wealthy people, some very wealthy (I'm poor like the rest of you). There are getting to be larger numbers of the "haves" as well as more of the "have nots" with the middle getting squeezed thin.

If McCain wins or Obama wins... they will have a gigantic mess on their hands...

Basic economics... if the price of fuel for product distribution increases then so will the products. If you buy fewer products because the price is higher (I'm already watching what I buy at the grocery store) people will loose their jobs. If it costs you twice as much to drive to work, you will have less money to spend on products and services... more people will be out of jobs.

End-user fuel prices are key to our national security, both in terms of defense and our economic strength in the world. If the govt can’t get involved in issues of National Security then what are we doing in Iraq?

Two possible scenarios,

1) Our Government gets involved in stabilizing the price end-user-fuel soon

OR

2) We progress towards a full blown recession.

The big thing that sucks is that OUR Govt here in the USA will make a mess of the situation if/when they get MORE involved than they already are. The bureacracy of both parties wastes more than it does good with.

Fuel/Gas prices are not just related to gassin up the ole Cummins diesel and filling up your Cutler 1150 or Stuthers 860 ... It's heating oil for our schools/hospitals/homes, transportation of our groceries, gas for our police cars, Transport of livestock, fuel for the combines that harvest our crops, natural gas that makes our electricity that powers refrigerators and water pumps. Electricity that processes our waste. Electricity that makes Lockheed cruise missiles and fighter jets, the fuel to mine, harvest and process raw resources for use in manufacturing... the list goes on and on.

Our country, its corporations, its consumers, and its public works are directly affected by the cost of oil.

Increasing the price of an item will drive down the demand for that item.

The record profits of the oil companies are oneof the reasons that the end product costs so much.

Dogmeat brought up a good point... the oil companies are buying up their own stock... it is because they KNOW that it will be worth much more in the very near future.

Conservation and reduced usage of oil products and exploration in alternative sources are the long term change that will have a more profound effect on our economy, security and global peace.

I've heard some pretty interesting stuff fly out of peoples mouths lately like
"Bomb those towel head, pave their fawking country over, put a fence around their country and run pipelines out" .... Well, we better get our children fitted for gas masks and Kevlar now if that is our attitude. We don't seem to want to admit it in our country, but we are willing to go to war over oil in foreign lands.... especially at $10 per gallon of Diesel.

Unfortunately the likely scenario is recession because the government is not effective and efficient and only changes the economies of scale after the damage is done.

I was reading the high price of oil is causing a real estate boom in IRAN. Plus IRAN real estate investors has never heard of property values going dwn in value. Partial story on Yahoo:

A real estate boom in the world's fourth-largest oil producer has been powered by President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's economic policies since he was elected in 2005, economic analysts say.

Real estate prices surged by more than 100 percent in 2007, after rising by about 65 percent in 2006 and more than 50 percent in 2005. Some economists see huge scope for the market to keep rising as, with interest rates below inflation, Iranians seek a store of value in property.

"The high prices might be a bubble," said economist Reza Abdizadeh. "It might be fake and not logical. But it is a fact. Historically, housing prices have never dropped in Iran. The government might be able to stop prices from rising but will not succeed in lowering them."

Shortly after Ahmadinejad was elected, his government came up with a plan for "quick-impact loans," handing out substantial sums to individuals and companies with plans to create jobs in Iran where the official unemployment rate is above 10 percent.

This stimulus is also a textbook trigger for inflation and alarmed many, including the head of Iran's Central Bank, Tahmasb Mazaheri.

"It has created problems since in effect ... the main issue is massive floating capital," said economist Saeed Leylaz.

 

[Ollie]

It's sad really.
The US is primed and ready for a major energy shift.
Building clean nuclear plants, solar farms, E-85, hydrogen fuel, etc.....

Too bad you won't see any of it really happen for 4-10 years.

If the US announced they were going to need 25% less oil (for sake of arguement) the world economy would crash like a stone in water. The worlds economy runs on oil. Places like the middle east whoses sole source of income is primarily oil would calapse. You think we have terrorist now, wait till there are a few million more arabs out of work and blaming us for their situation.

There are no easy solutions, nor will there be any fast solutions even if they had the answers (which I think they really do).

 

[Dare-Ya]

Dare-Ya, Thanks

Ok.. 7.5 cents on every dollar...

What is the increase in the number of dollars they have been receiveing since last year?

What is the % increase in the profit per gallon of gas?
Diesel?
JP-5?

BTW, what is the info source?

This is all public information. It's out there. Feel free to google the big 5 oil companies. You'll find your answers.

 

[mountainhorse]

Dare-Ya,

I don't doubt your info in the least...I'm just looking for more specific info. You are a well informed guy and you can help bring balance to a very emotional topic these days.

I'm sure someone on the 4M here has answers to these questions below... there are a lot of well informed people here.

Dare-Ya, Thanks

Ok.. 7.5 cents on every dollar...

What is the increase in the number of dollars they have been receiveing since last year?

What is the % increase in the profit per gallon of gas?
Diesel?
JP-5?

 

[Beels]

He didn't open the 'can' of worms... he's responding to the numerous calls for saving by the government.

"Save me, it's not FAAAAAIR!!" screamed the socialist. Yea, momma said life ain't fair. Did some not learn that???

Thank you...

 

[Dare-Ya]

Dare-Ya,

I don't doubt your info in the least...I'm just looking for more specific info. You are a well informed guy and you can help bring balance to a very emotional topic these days.

I'm sure someone on the 4M here has answers to these questions below... there are a lot of well informed people here.

Like I said it is public information and very easy to find. Here is you a link to read up on the subject. By the way exxon mobile only profited .o4 cents on a dollar in the first quarter of this year. This was stated in the CEO's testimony before congress, which I'm sure is available for public viewing also.

http://www.api.org/statistics/earnings/upload/earnings_perspective.pdf

 

[Dogmeat]

Like I said it is public information and very easy to find. Here is you a link to read up on the subject. By the way exxon mobile only profited .o4 cents on a dollar in the first quarter of this year. This was stated in the CEO's testimony before congress, which I'm sure is available for public viewing also.

http://www.api.org/statistics/earnings/upload/earnings_perspective.pdf

Good read.

 

[donbrown]

What point do you want to prove about oil companies mountainhorse ?

 

[Disco Dan Richter]

OK, here is a scenario for you guys who think the Gov should not interfere with private corporations.

I am a contractor, I decide to buy out all the contractors I can, and the remaining contractors agree to form an alliance to fix prices so that your average home will go up 200 percent even though the materials to build stay the same as the supply is overwhelming and demand is high. So instead of paying 250,000 for a nice home, you pay 500,000.

THis is a start. I am making you pay what I say you will pay. You now are forced to buy an old home, with need of repairs, in which I am also the contractor you will hire do said repairs.............................on and on.

THen, I decide to get the monopoly..........ahem, I mean corporation, to double that again. Because no one can stop me.

I dont think anyone here is saying what you think guys. All we are saying, is that things that are a nessecity(sp?), should not be in the hands of private corporations that can make thier own rules and fix prices. THe whole oil thing is one big monopoly, proven by the fact that every one in it, profit by the increase.

What is more communist?
Private corporations who can charge what ever they want, and screw taxpayers that the gov wont help and cant help?

Or, gov steps in, takes over production and refining, charges appropriate prices, 100 percent goes back to taxpayers in forms of employment, scientific study on better emmisions and alternate fuels, ROADS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You see, the way I see it, if gov took over we all would be better off as advancment of scientific study on alternative fuels would be funded by gas, how many billions of dollars go to Shell, BP, exxon, that could go right back to the taxpayer in one form or the other?

It is not a matter of "it's not fair" It is a matter of "it's not right". I would rather see our money go back to to us, rather than any, and I mean ANY, forein country wether it be in oil, or aid.

It's time to take America back.

 

[Wolfrun]

I don't care what the price the price of oil is, I do not want to see Maxine Waters and her "socialist" liberals taking over Big Oil. Big Government just can't do anything very well. It really is the best system there is but you have to do for yourself, Big Brother is not going to take care of you!

 

[Good to Go]

It is not a matter of "it's not fair" It is a matter of "it's not right". I would rather see our money go back to to us

Fair, right, we're splitting hairs. What's the difference? Changing the word doesn't suddenly make the position more acceptable (socialism).

Money back to us? What do people think companies do with there money? People have jobs (read some of the threads on this 4m. A lot of peeps have very good paying jobs working for the oil industry or companies that support them; got equipment, trucks, repair facilities, etc). The industry is huge, and spends a lot of money keeping it going. Even the big wigs that everyone complains about making all the money spread it around...it does go back in the system; they buy homes, toys (got yacht? someone built it) buy stocks in other industries (investments for all the money, which goes, imagine this, back into the economy), etc, etc, etc.

Or, you could take the other approach (the "money back to us", as in government) where the distribute it to social programs, etc, or in other words, to those that don't work for it.

Just think: you are currently employed by a company that makes beautiful crystal stem wear, top of the line, no expense spared. It's a nitch market and profitable. You're a valuable employee with special skills. But, now, with the changes in government taking over oil, there isn't any wealthy oil exec's...and there are now less people to buy your product. So your hours get cut, your salary goes down, and why?? because the government is going to decide where to spend "our money", and trust me, it won't be to those that are working. You sure you want this?

I don't care what the price the price of oil is, I do not want to see Maxine Waters and her "socialist" liberals taking over Big Oil. Big Government just can't do anything very well. It really is the best system there is but you have to do for yourself, Big Brother is not going to take care of you!

In a nut shell, that's the big difference I see on here with the discussion. It's trust, and most of us don't trust the government to run a business, which this is. I keep hearing how it's a "necessity" which it's not. Some wrote earlier "Fact, it's a necessity". Fact is, it's not a fact. No amount of slamming one's hand on the table will make it so either. No one's keeping you from living in a cave. It's a choice to have a home, heat it, burn fuel to get a better job so you can do these things. It's human desire to improve one's position in life. But that does not make oil a "necessity" by any stretch of the imagination.

Of course we all desire oil to be cheaper. Remember when TV came out, they were EXPENSIVE, and a luxury. Now, people think it's a "necessity" and have 2, 3, 4 in each house. Spare me.