I thought price fixing was illegal

[winter brew]

Assuming OPEC is the biggest reason for our fuel cost increase?? But our biggest supplier of crude is Canada.....so again, WHY our our prices (and Canada's) going up? Is it OPEC? is the the speculators?
Are our prices really up, or is the dollar being down the real reason it takes so many of our dollars to buy a barrel? Were our prices artificially low before? So many possibilities.

 

[donbrown]

Assuming OPEC is the biggest reason for our fuel cost increase?? But our biggest supplier of crude is Canada.....so again, WHY our our prices (and Canada's) going up? Is it OPEC? is the the speculators?
Are our prices really up, or is the dollar being down the real reason it takes so many of our dollars to buy a barrel? Were our prices artificially low before? So many possibilities.

I think you are hitting the major points but I don't know the biggest influence.

What puckers my butt is the OPEC price manipulation. Especially because those in power were created by the west, USA UK , etc.

We have bailed their butt out of certain annihalation serveral times yet they can't publicallyt acknowledge our help cause some fanatic might blow up their family.

I am wondering if there should be any sense of mutual preservation.

 

[weetee]

Assuming OPEC is the biggest reason for our fuel cost increase?? But our biggest supplier of crude is Canada.....so again, WHY our our prices (and Canada's) going up? Is it OPEC? is the the speculators?
Are our prices really up, or is the dollar being down the real reason it takes so many of our dollars to buy a barrel? Were our prices artificially low before? So many possibilities.

If you'll notice, not just OUR prices have gone up. Oil is a global commodity, and yes, OPEC does influence the price by controlling production rates. OPEC does not want to see the world economy tank. They are pushing it as far as the can without trying to break it. USA GDP grew .9 % last quarter. That tells OPEC we can absorb the high fuel prices. Believe me, if we were to go down hill fast, OPEC would increase production to drop oil prices, or else they would be pulled down hill with the rest of the world.
In the mean time, we need to conserve and DRILL! (And create OFEC)

 

[ruffryder]

If you'll notice, not just OUR prices have gone up.

I assumed this also, but do you know of any graphs or anything from like the UK, Norway, or other countries that show the same proportionate increase in prices? I have been unable to find anything.

I got this from a wiki on fuel tax

Fuel taxes in Canada can vary greatly between locales. On average, about one-third of the total price of gas at the pump is tax. Excise taxes on gasoline and diesel are collected both federal and provincial governments, as well as by some select municipalities (Montreal, Vancouver, and Victoria); with combined excise taxes varying from 16.2 ¢/L in the Yukon to 30.5 ¢/L in Vancouver. As well, the federal government and some provincial governments (Newfoundland and Labrador, Nova Scotia, and Quebec) collect sales tax (GST and PST) on top of the retail price and the excise taxes.[2]

Fuel taxes in the United States vary by state. For the first quarter of 2008, the average state gasoline tax is 28.6 cents per gallon, plus 18.4 cents per gallon federal tax making the total 47 cents per gallon. For diesel, the average state tax is 29.2 cents per gallon plus an additional 24.4 cents per gallon federal tax making the total 53.6 cents per gallon.[3]

So recently I saw that diesel is pretty much on par between BC and US around $5.05/ us gallon. + or - some

If 10% of US costs are due to taxes, yet 33% of the CAN cost is due to taxes, and we are paying close to the same cost retail for fuel, that means we are paying more for the fuel (no taxes) than they are. If the above is correct, then why?

Also, I have not seen or heard about other countries having the same large jump in fuel costs as compared to the US. I might be uninformed here, but would like those from other countries to post there info if possible. Seems interesting that if we are all on the same market and unsubsidized that the raw price we are paying for fuel would be different, or maybe there are other things to consider that effect the end user price differently by country other than oil costs and taxes.

Another thing that interests me is that many of the large oil producers do not own refineries due to there low profit margin. If the refining process is a constraint like we think it is, why aren't the profit margins higher for it? I would think supply and demand would come into play here, but it doesn't seem like it.

 

[weetee]

I guess my question for you is this... are you and others really that gullable to believe that the oil companies are only posting.04 cents on a dollar? Then how are they continually posting record profits? In a year the price of oil has doubled, from about $60-$70 to $130 a barrel. Do you you really believe that there production costs have double as well? You and others are pretty naive.

Uh, .04 is not a number pulled out of the air, It's a factual public record. How much do you think the oil companies PAY for a barrel of oil they have to import? Ya think that might have an effect on fuel prices? How many times have we heard the soundbite "record profits"? Record relative to what? Dont be so quick to jump on the DEATH TO BIG OIL bandwagon. Like it or not, these companies will supply our energy needs now and in the future. Hurt them, and you hurt yourself. (see 1970s) If you think they have an unfair advantage, invest. Its a sure bet. Right? (again, see 1970's)

 

[weetee]

I assumed this also, but do you know of any graphs or anything from like the UK, Norway, or other countries that show the same proportionate increase in prices? I have been unable to find anything.

I got this from a wiki on fuel tax


So recently I saw that diesel is pretty much on par between BC and US around $5.05/ us gallon. + or - some

If 10% of US costs are due to taxes, yet 33% of the CAN cost is due to taxes, and we are paying close to the same cost retail for fuel, that means we are paying more for the fuel (no taxes) than they are. If the above is correct, then why?

Also, I have not seen or heard about other countries having the same large jump in fuel costs as compared to the US. I might be uninformed here, but would like those from other countries to post there info if possible. Seems interesting that if we are all on the same market and unsubsidized that the raw price we are paying for fuel would be different, or maybe there are other things to consider that effect the end user price differently by country other than oil costs and taxes.

Another thing that interests me is that many of the large oil producers do not own refineries due to there low profit margin. If the refining process is a constraint like we think it is, why aren't the profit margins higher for it? I would think supply and demand would come into play here, but it doesn't seem like it.

Logistics wil effect the price. You'll pay more for a barrel if you live on Antarctica.

 

[donbrown]

I copied this off another website.


The new legislation to input ethanol comes from environmental standards that have been in place in some parts of the country for several years. In some areas, gasoline was required to meet higher environmental standards in order to reduce the amount of smog created by burning gasoline. Producing this cleaner-burning gasoline caused problems in refining, distribution and storage, which increases the cost of gas. "The result of this targeted approach to air quality has been to create gasoline market islands," John Cook, director of the petroleum division of the DOE's Energy Information Administration, said before the U.S. House of Representatives Committee on Energy and Commerce on May 15, 2001.
Cook pointed at California and the Chicago and Milwaukee areas as primary examples of gasoline-market islands. The clean-burning requirements in each of these areas are unique to that individual area, and only a few refineries can produce the specialized products. High demand, a supply problem at a refinery or a problem with a pipeline can cause pricing in these areas to surge. Other states and municipalities also have their own requirements for cleaner fuel.

In California, the state government has set its own reformulated gasoline rules that are stricter than the federally mandated clean-gas laws. The state adopted requirements for cleaner-burning fuel in 1996 [source: ARB]. This is why Californians pay a higher price for cleaner fuels -- this, plus a local sales-and-use tax, the federal excise tax and a state excise tax. California's distance from the refineries located near the Gulf of Mexico can also add to the cost of gasoline if it chooses to obtain gas supplies from those refineries.


I am not sure about the fuel requirements of Canada but the difference in price could any of the factors.

 

[weetee]

Interesting artical on refinery expansion.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/bus/stories/121107dnbusrefinery.2894c91.html

 

[Dare-Ya]

I guess my question for you is this... are you and others really that gullable to believe that the oil companies are only posting.04 cents on a dollar? Then how are they continually posting record profits? In a year the price of oil has doubled, from about $60-$70 to $130 a barrel. Do you you really believe that there production costs have double as well? You and others are pretty naive.

Have you bothered reading any of the links I have posted? I look at the big picture, but hey if you have proof that Exxon made more than that last quarter, feel free to prosecute their arses for perjury for giving false testimony before a senate committee. Here is another link that you can either choose to read or ignore. They are recommendations of what should be done to help solve the energy crisis. Oh lest I forget it was the evil Chevron CEO that told the senate that these recommendations should be implemented.

http://downloadcenter.connectlive.c...loads/NPC-Hard_Truths-Ch6-Recommendations.pdf

 

[winter brew]

I have a hard time blaming the oil companies for much of the increase, in fact they seem to be absorbing alot of the cost before it reaches the pump.
Just do the math....$135 a barrel (42 gallons), they are paying $3.21/gallon for crude. Then they transport it, store it, process it, deliver it etc.... for another $0.50-$1.00 / gallon. They do all the work and get little of the profit from what I see.

 

[ruffryder]

Interesting artical on refinery expansion.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/bus/stories/121107dnbusrefinery.2894c91.html

that seems to say a little different than this one, good link though

oil refining

 

[Dogmeat]

I have the solution: Let's all kill ourselves. The greenies and politicians should go first however.

 

[Disco Dan Richter]

It does not take 1 gallon of crude to make 1 gallon of gas, the ratio is much lower.

 

[winter brew]

It does not take 1 gallon of crude to make 1 gallon of gas, the ratio is much lower.

True....I was oversimplifying, but then they use additives that are probably more expensive than crude (??) and further refining to make the most of the product.

 

[donbrown]

I have the solution: Let's all kill ourselves. The greenies and politicians should go first however.

Soylent green

 

[Good to Go]

People keep screaming of "record profits"... Last I read, it was around 8%.

Ok, help me out. I realize that relative to the money that most of us have, billions is big. But 8%, whether it's a 300k business, or multi billion dollar business, is not out of line. It's barely worthwhile.

So, I ask: is it record profits becuase they haven't been making much (in comparison) the past few years, or is is record just because it's a big number? And is 8% unrealistic? That's a lot of risk for such a small number I think.

 

[Good to Go]

I have the solution: Let's all kill ourselves. The greenies and politicians should go first however.

Soylent green

Hahahahahahah... haven't seen that one in awhile.

 

[plumnuts]

Assuming OPEC is the biggest reason for our fuel cost increase?? But our biggest supplier of crude is Canada.....so again, WHY our our prices (and Canada's) going up? Is it OPEC? is the the speculators?
Are our prices really up, or is the dollar being down the real reason it takes so many of our dollars to buy a barrel? Were our prices artificially low before? So many possibilities.

you need to understand what a commodity is

 

[winter brew]

I have a vague understanding.....elaborate?

 

[ruffryder]

This might help

fungibility

This might help too.