Here we go again. Oil prices

[Dogmeat]

**** yeah, start out small with Stretford system or something similar and then 20 years later get something like the Flexorb (sp?) there outside of Evanston. Not to mention the cost of the piping for sour service, then sulfur processing, then acid gas systems, on and on and on. And that is just on the production side, the refining side is just as bad.

The best way to treat H2S in natural gas is with a regenerative amine system ... the direct-conversion procsses don't work worth a ****.

It's more expensive to build a big amine plant initially but in the long run it will save you money because it will just sit there and run as opposed to having to be recharged every month.

 

[Supplicate]

The best way to treat H2S in natural gas is with a regenerative amine system ... the direct-conversion procsses don't work worth a ****.

It's more expensive to build a big amine plant initially but in the long run it will save you money because it will just sit there and run as opposed to having to be recharged every month.

at least now most places are realizing that. Before I would bet most of them figured that H2S concentration wouldn't be on the eternal rise...

 

[ruffryder]

The batteries are the problem with most of the electrical systems being looked at. What do you do with millions of batteries? You can't recycle all of them.

Why not? When is the last time you threw away an automotive battery. It has to be about 10 years or so for me. With enough batteries out there, the raw materials will get expensive and the dependence / financial motivation to recycle them will be there.

I get 5 bucks back right now as a core charge for auto / motorcycle / farm vehicle batteries. Why would anyone throw them away now?

As technology for batteries continues to improve, so will the ability to reuse the materials. You information is old and out dated, especially with talk about the electric infrastructure.

If you assume most cars will be charged at night, then the infrastructure in all parts except for the northwest have at least a quarter if not more (almost half in the winter time) capacity (thermal limits) available to charge electric vehicles. This also includes generation capacity too. This is due to the fact that ac loads account for around 40 to 50% of the peak loading which occurs in the summer time, normally around 5 or 6pm, two to three hours after peak solar insolation, (hmmm perfect time for some solar power aye? High summer peaks have a very probably relation to high amounts of solar insolation) due to time for thermal heating of buildings from said solar insolation. After that point in time, the loads decrease. The difference between the maximum winter load and the maximum summer load is almost 50%. There is a lot of extra capacity in the system

The technology is here, the infrastructure is here, there are no problems. Now remember, this is for when assuming that vehicles will be charged at night. Now some people don't / won't but no body cares, because they aren't part of the large demographic that is the electric vehicle market. These are daily commuters who drive less the 100 miles a day. I think it is a really small 90 % of the population.... ha ha.

 

[Dano702]

I was just over at gminsidenews.com looking at pictures of the production version of the 2011 Chevrolet Volt . 40 miles without a drop of gas ! My round trip commute is about 50 , but i can plugin when i get to work . I am so ready to stop going to gas stations .

The Duramax and the Freightliners go to the CFN fuel dock , so no more regular gas stations for me . All of my personal vehicles will be getting charged in the garage . So F U ,Saudi Arabia !!!

I am pulling the trigger on 2 Volts as soon as i can order them.

 

[Transporter]

LMAO at anyone that thinks a battery powered car will keep windows and frostbite away during the winter.Might get you to the corner store if you live in California but I doubt you could use air conditioning for more than 2 minutes.

 

[Dano702]

LMAO at anyone that thinks a battery powered car will keep windows and frostbite away during the winter.Might get you to the corner store if you live in California but I doubt you could use air conditioning for more than 2 minutes.

You are wrong , welcome to 2009 . And it does have a gas engine so heat will not be an issue. And i will be testing it in the 120 degree Vegas heat first thing . I just dont like sending cash to the middle east in large piles , call me crazy .

 

[Ollie]

You are wrong , welcome to 2009 . And it does have a gas engine so heat will not be an issue. And i will be testing it in the 120 degree Vegas heat first thing . I just dont like sending cash to the middle east in large piles , call me crazy .

And you plan on powering all those battery powered cars how??
They are having brown outs now because we can't produce enough electricity to meet current demand. What do you think will happen when we have a few million people plugging in their cars??

the feds won't allow new construction of power plants.
Our power grid is out dated and maxed out.

Electrical ISN'T the answer. It is simple and available now, but it is NOT practicle.

Plus one other thing.
What happens when you have a serious crash between 2 full electric cars?
I really don't know but I am willing to bet it wouldn't be pretty, and how do you clean up all the battery acid? Hopefully you don't get covered with it during the crash.

 

[batman]

Why not? When is the last time you threw away an automotive battery. It has to be about 10 years or so for me. With enough batteries out there, the raw materials will get expensive and the dependence / financial motivation to recycle them will be there.

I get 5 bucks back right now as a core charge for auto / motorcycle / farm vehicle batteries. Why would anyone throw them away now?

As technology for batteries continues to improve, so will the ability to reuse the materials. You information is old and out dated, especially with talk about the electric infrastructure.

If you assume most cars will be charged at night, then the infrastructure in all parts except for the northwest have at least a quarter if not more (almost half in the winter time) capacity (thermal limits) available to charge electric vehicles. This also includes generation capacity too. This is due to the fact that ac loads account for around 40 to 50% of the peak loading which occurs in the summer time, normally around 5 or 6pm, two to three hours after peak solar insolation, (hmmm perfect time for some solar power aye? High summer peaks have a very probably relation to high amounts of solar insolation) due to time for thermal heating of buildings from said solar insolation. After that point in time, the loads decrease. The difference between the maximum winter load and the maximum summer load is almost 50%. There is a lot of extra capacity in the system

The technology is here, the infrastructure is here, there are no problems. Now remember, this is for when assuming that vehicles will be charged at night. Now some people don't / won't but no body cares, because they aren't part of the large demographic that is the electric vehicle market. These are daily commuters who drive less the 100 miles a day. I think it is a really small 90 % of the population.... ha ha.

insert "price is right" tuba music.

 

[Dano702]

Our goverment will not allow new power plants to be built !!! You said it , so build more NUKE plants!!!!! What ever it takes to stop sending BILLIONS of dollars to people who want to destroy us .


The Volt is one of the first cures for the problem . If we cant make enough power , build more plants . It seems like the only answer is to always continue to burn more oil. It has to stop now , not later . If i can run a car off power that comes from Hover Dam , i am all over it .

The Dems are afraid of Nuke plants . And the people we are sending billions of dollars want to set off a nuke in the usa . It sounds much more risky to run those nuke plants , than to have another large scale attack .

Just ask yourself this . What if we told OPEC to piss off , and never bought another drop from them . Lets see our guys building new plants or OPEC pumping more oil . I know where i want my cash to go .


What ever it takes to stop burning oil from the middle east , i will do !

 

[ruffryder]

And you plan on powering all those battery powered cars how??
They are having brown outs now because we can't produce enough electricity to meet current demand. What do you think will happen when we have a few million people plugging in their cars??

As I stated before, but you obviously didn't read it, you need to think about when the cars will be charged. If they are charged in the night time periods, when people are asleep, there will not be a problem. It is a simple as that. As far as brown outs... those are steady state / zero contingency problems. Those occurrences are due to N-1 and N-2 contingency problems and then reaching thermal system limits. Probably need more transmission, yes, but to say there isn't enough generation is a misguided statement. There just sometimes, due to certain contingencies, limitations on the amount of power you can get.

 

[ruffryder]

insert "price is right" tuba music.

Insert circus music..

 

[Ollie]

As I stated before, but you obviously didn't read it, you need to think about when the cars will be charged. If they are charged in the night time periods, when people are asleep, there will not be a problem.

WRONG!
First off, most electric cars don't have enough range to get you to work and back, especially in the winter when you are running heat and defrost, so they will be plugged in during the day.

Second, at night is when the power plants take some of their generators offline to do maintenance. If you make it so cars can only be plugged in at night (which is the only scenario under which your asumption would work) then there would be no down time at all. The power plants would run 24/7.

Third, electric vehicles of any kind cost 15-30% more than conventinal gas powered cars. It is time for the government to STOP mandating how we spend money. I for one am not willing to spend the extra money for something that I then have to replace all the batteries in every few years or buy a whole new car.

Oh, and I did read it. I just dismissed it as not relevant because there is no way it would work.

Also, if the feds were serious about energy independance they would have built some nuke plants with a small portion of that 787 BILLION dollar give away and updated the electrical grid. People need to stop thinking along the lines of what we have (which doesn't work) and start thinking of what we can do and what we can use to get what we need.

There are chemical reactions that can produce power. No batteries needed. No electrical connection outside of the car needed. Problem solved.
Is it practical, no clue, but it would be nice if it was looked at.

 

[ruffryder]

WRONG!
First off, most electric cars don't have enough range to get you to work and back, especially in the winter when you are running heat and defrost, so they will be plugged in during the day.

Second, at night is when the power plants take some of their generators offline to do maintenance. If you make it so cars can only be plugged in at night (which is the only scenario under which your asumption would work) then there would be no down time at all. The power plants would run 24/7.

That is bs response. All generators don't go offline for maintenance every night. They are down for weeks with work, when they do go down.

The gm electric vehicle that they did make had a range of 100 miles. Wow, so a couple of northern states aren't in the optimal location for electric vehicles. Get outside of your little world. Most of the Southern states and the western states would not have any problem year round. Just so happens that is where most of the people live too. Who would of thought?

I don't think you know how much capacity is on the system, in generation and in transmission. The system is designed to have enough excess generation to survive the removal of it's biggest generator without ever noticing a thing. This has to occur all the time. It is called spin reserves. There are also off-line reserves. I don't think there is ever an instance when all generators are online and producing at full, the system was and is designed to be much more redundant then that.

You keep on making little examples for why it won't work. Yes, for 10 percent of the population it wouldn't work. Maybe another 10 percent don't have the type of job that allows them to have an electric vehicle... blah blah blah. Keep going with another 30 or 40 percent of your excuses and you are left with 40 - 50 percent of the population that an electric car would work for. Even if it is only 30 percent, you just reduced you oil consumption by 30 percent, right now, done, bada bing.

Hmm... I wonder what percentage of oil we get from middle eastern / opec countries.....

Seems like a easy scenario and it is already very feasible. Crap, it was done like what, 15 years ago. For those who haven't watched it, watch "Who killed the electric car". Yah there is some bs political stuff in it, but the most important thing is the electric car photo's and videos, and talks from people that used them. Electric vehicles aren't far off, they could have been here now already... The only pipe dream is our brains working correctly.

 

[ruffryder]

Third, electric vehicles of any kind cost 15-30% more than conventinal gas powered cars. It is time for the government to STOP mandating how we spend money. I for one am not willing to spend the extra money for something that I then have to replace all the batteries in every few years or buy a whole new car.

So? How much do you spend in fuel every year? I spend about 50 bucks a week commuting, was almost 70 last summer.

52 weeks, 70 bucks a week. = 3640 dollars a year. Over three years that is more then 10 thousand dollars. So if a 20,000 car then costs an extra 10 thousand, (50 percent) it will be paid for in 3 years alone. Yes, you can bring up the battery cost, but as the market drastically ramps up, costs will decrease and performance will also increase. Right now, I think they have a life span of around, 5 or 6 years? Maybe more? Well, your gasoline savings for years 4-6 pay for the battery replacement. So for 6 years, your costs seem to be very similar, except you have used very little oil, almost none in fact. Note that there is also a large savings due to maintenance. No oil changes (hey, saving more oil, here too, aye), engine parts, transmission parts. The maintenance of the vehicle is drastically reduced.

This is an example, using some worst case numbers, and it still sounds like a good deal here too.

 

[Dano702]

And you plan on powering all those battery powered cars how??
They are having brown outs now because we can't produce enough electricity to meet current demand. What do you think will happen when we have a few million people plugging in their cars??

the feds won't allow new construction of power plants.
Our power grid is out dated and maxed out.

Electrical ISN'T the answer. It is simple and available now, but it is NOT practicle.

Plus one other thing.
What happens when you have a serious crash between 2 full electric cars?
I really don't know but I am willing to bet it wouldn't be pretty, and how do you clean up all the battery acid? Hopefully you don't get covered with it during the crash.

Ollie ,

I respect your views , i agree with 99% of your posts . But i do belive electric cars are the answer . If we need more nuke plants to power a nation of electric cars so be it .

Was it not like 700 BILLION dollars a year we are sending to the middle east ? To quote T Boone Pickens " The largest transfer of wealth in the history of man kind ."

What ever it takes to stop burning oil !!! If we need to spend that 700 Billion a year on new nuke plants and power lines is that a bad thing . It always seems like the only answer is to burn more oil , because the alternitive is not "perfect".

Well i am tired of that ,and i will do what ever i can to stop sending large piles of cash to the people who brought us 911 !

The 2011 Chevrolet Volt will travel 40 miles without burning a drop of gasoline, and after that when the range extender starts up it will get around 100 MPG.

GMInsidenews.com has alot of info and pictures of the production version of this car that has already begun production . It is not perfect , but the first generation is on its way to a lot near you .


I know my round trip every day is about 50 , but i can plug in when i get to work . And i will spend the cash to make sure each and every one of my employee's can plug in on my dime , when they arrive at work.

I dont care if they cost 50 K per car , i am getting two as soon as i can order them . And my company will be buying them as well . What ever i can do to stick it to OPEC is what i am going to do , i dont care what it costs.

 

[Dogmeat]

Ollie ,

I respect your views , i agree with 99% of your posts . But i do belive electric cars are the answer . If we need more nuke plants to power a nation of electric cars so be it .

Was it not like 700 BILLION dollars a year we are sending to the middle east ? To quote T Boone Pickens " The largest transfer of wealth in the history of man kind ."

What ever it takes to stop burning oil !!! If we need to spend that 700 Billion a year on new nuke plants and power lines is that a bad thing . It always seems like the only answer is to burn more oil , because the alternitive is not "perfect".

Well i am tired of that ,and i will do what ever i can to stop sending large piles of cash to the people who brought us 911 !

The 2011 Chevrolet Volt will travel 40 miles without burning a drop of gasoline, and after that when the range extender starts up it will get around 100 MPG.

GMInsidenews.com has alot of info and pictures of the production version of this car that has already begun production . It is not perfect , but the first generation is on its way to a lot near you .


I know my round trip every day is about 50 , but i can plug in when i get to work . And i will spend the cash to make sure each and every one of my employee's can plug in on my dime , when they arrive at work.

I dont care if they cost 50 K per car , i am getting two as soon as i can order them . And my company will be buying them as well . What ever i can do to stick it to OPEC is what i am going to do , i dont care what it costs.

Just to throw this out here ...

Let's say we start building nuke plant after nuke plant after nuke plant.

Where are we going to find the uranium ore to power those plants? that will most assuredly be a concern .... And, what do we do with the waste?

I agree %100 with you that if we are serious about "alternative energy" then nuclear power is the only viable alternative, period.

But it isn't as easy as it sounds, unfortunatley ...

 

[Ollie]

So? How much do you spend in fuel every year? I spend about 50 bucks a week commuting, was almost 70 last summer.

52 weeks, 70 bucks a week. = 3640 dollars a year. Over three years that is more then 10 thousand dollars. So if a 20,000 car then costs an extra 10 thousand, (50 percent) it will be paid for in 3 years alone. Yes, you can bring up the battery cost, but as the market drastically ramps up, costs will decrease and performance will also increase. Right now, I think they have a life span of around, 5 or 6 years? Maybe more? Well, your gasoline savings for years 4-6 pay for the battery replacement. So for 6 years, your costs seem to be very similar, except you have used very little oil, almost none in fact. Note that there is also a large savings due to maintenance. No oil changes (hey, saving more oil, here too, aye), engine parts, transmission parts. The maintenance of the vehicle is drastically reduced.

This is an example, using some worst case numbers, and it still sounds like a good deal here too.

Yep, sounds like a great deal till you figure in I buy a different vehicle every 5 years and I buy used. I paid 6k for my current car. I put 40 a week into fuel and figure another 10 in towards oil and bs stuff. So that is 200 a month, 2400 a year. So now your 24k every 6 years i will spend approx 18 - 20k. However, I can hop into my car and drive 2k miles and go on vacation without having to map out power stations along the way.

Full electric would work great in places like california where people only drive 30 miels a day total. However in places like that they don't have the capacity to power them.

 

[MARCUSO]

Why are you talking full electric Ollie?
That would never happen, I am sure it will phase in more % when batteries could handle the proper tasks, but if you think that it will all be 100%? that's just silly.
I think Dano and ruffryder got most of the bases covered,

as for battery acid spilling, is Gasoline and better? I am sure a compartment has been thought out already.

I think a scenario like this would be in the near future:

Solar panels on your roof, or on everyone's roof, (how much square footage of roofs are there in America?) When they become attainable, like something that pays itself off in 10 years, will feed the grid, or heat/cool your house/water...etc. or the energy could be stored for the evening charge of your commuter.

There will always be gassers and diesels. they will just have to be used for their ideal purposes.

 

[icr]

Where are we going to find the uranium ore to power those plants? that will most assuredly be a concern .... And, what do we do with the waste?

A) in the ground

B) we sell the waste to terrorists to make nukes with. Then we bomb them for making nukes. We make some money back and get to bomb terrorists...vote icr for pres.

 

[Nate]

Vote casted! And to think.........the campaign all started on Snowest. Brings a mother f'in tear to me eye mate!

A) in the ground

B) we sell the waste to terrorists to make nukes with. Then we bomb them for making nukes. We make some money back and get to bomb terrorists...vote icr for pres.