Heim Joint Failures on SKINZ Concept A-Arms

[Mtn. Muncher]

I have been making snowmobile front suspensions for the past 12 years and in that time I have learned a lot…. Some good and a lot of bad. One thing about front suspensions is they are the first thing to a coalition and take a bigger pounding than any other part on the sled. If they are to strong they will take out our bulkhead. If they are to light then they will brake under normal use. <O</O
If Skinz is truly using a ½” rod end on the bottom a-arm then that is to light duty and will not matter what quality of joint they use. They will bend and brake over time even if you do not hit anything. They must be a 5/8” rod end to be strong enough. We use 4140 chrome Molly steel that is heat treated and hard chromed in our front ends and they are plenty strong. To fix the problem they are going to have to figure out how to put in 5/8” rod end or the problem will continue.<OThis is going to be a big safety issue if they do not.
<OSkinz is a top notch company that we do a lot of business with and I am sure they will make it rite with every customer.<O

Allen <O
Timbersled Products<O

 

[summitboy]

it would be nice if this post was left open for the basic members too chris.

I agree 100% ! Make it a sticky !

 

[yammi4ever]

I have been making snowmobile front suspensions for the past 12 years and in that time I have learned a lot…. Some good and a lot of bad. One thing about front suspensions is they are the first thing to a coalition and take a bigger pounding than any other part on the sled. If they are to strong they will take out our bulkhead. If they are to light then they will brake under normal use. <O</O
If Skinz is truly using a ½” rod end on the bottom a-arm then that is to light duty and will not matter what quality of joint they use. They will bend and brake over time even if you do not hit anything. They must be a 5/8” rod end to be strong enough. We use 4140 chrome Molly steel that is heat treated and hard chromed in our front ends and they are plenty strong. To fix the problem they are going to have to figure out how to put in 5/8” rod end or the problem will continue.<OThis is going to be a big safety issue if they do not.
<OSkinz is a top notch company that we do a lot of business with and I am sure they will make it rite with every customer.<O

Allen <O
Timbersled Products<O

Allen,

You no doubt have much more knowledge in this department than I do, but I do know that 1/2 inch pins and bolts (of various grades) are asked to do a lot in other non sledding environments. Do you mind elaborating a little more on how you can back up your statement. Did you originally try 1/2 inch and see failures?

Thanks,

Kirk

 

[summitboy]

Since my handle and a friends handle has been used and we have been questioned on whether we have the Skinz front end i thought i would chime in once again.

We looked at both front ends when they came to market. The Skinz looked/looks (pardon my french) chump in our opinions. Too many negatives all around. The 1/2" heims and other negatives (our opinion) sealed the deal in our minds. One of our group had built/fabricated many parts including some front ends made out of chromoly and heim joints. Heims were the weak links. After seeing the Skinz we agreed there was no way we would buy one. Glad we made the right call. The last thing we need is days lost to under engineering and parts delays.

So no, no one in our group of 6-8 Turbo Nytros has a Skinz front end. I do have another friend who has the Skinz and he has had no issues as of yet. Barely any miles or hard riding on it yet. If it does let go i can venture a guess it will be down the road. I hope you don't pretend to be a expert just because you have or own a Skinz front end on a Nytro. The proof is in the puddin !

 

[M C]

You sir offer no useful information to this thread. Sorry

Haters got ta hate.

 

[summitboy]

You sir offer no useful information to this thread. Sorry

Haters got ta hate.

Yeah, and your post was soo informational. Fail !

 

[yammi4ever]

Guys,

let's please keep this relatively informative post from turning into a pi$$ing match, so we all can see where this is going to go. I DO have a vested interest in knowing since I have just installed the SPG on my sled (however with no snow it is at no risk of breaking LOL and am on the list to get the updated heim joints thanks to OFT being on the ball)

Thanks

Kirk

 

[M C]

Yeah, and your post was soo informational. Fail !

 

[christopher]

http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/showthread.php?t=96351

you need to work on your google foo...

You know, I am kind of surprised snowhawkaddict hasn't found this thread... Something about a two-ski going to a one-ski....

OUT STANDING.
Have never seen that Mod before!

 

[ruffryder]

So anyone know what the fix has been? Has the fix been working?

 

[justinkredible56]

So anyone know what the fix has been? Has the fix been working?

The updated heim joints haven't showed up yet, when they do I'll let ya know if I can burn through a whole tank of gas before I sheer one and have to limp back to the truck.

 

[Mister907]

i imagine they check they failed units versus the manufacturer, if there is any connection, drop the manufacturer and find new one. wonder if there is any possibility if the same company manufactured any of the zbroz failed units?

 

[Mister907]

Funny i don't see anything that suggests catastrophic failure in Polaris forums ? link ? I'm pretty sure we are talking about the Nytro front end here. If you think the Skinz is the end all be all get your wallet out and buy one. You have a choice !

I believe the Zbros is better built. Just look at it. It is just a opinion. If my front end snapped and wrecked my sled or better yet injured me i would be a little upset !

doesnt really matter WHAT front end we're talking about. i think most people just want to get what theyre paying for, and service that will back your purchase. i would hate to see what would happen to a zbroz front end (that was built with the same quality as the few i saw) if it WAS on my nytrotank? do you have any info on how zbroz is taking care of their set backs? seems like skinz is doing all they can to fix it.

 

[Mister907]

Funny i don't see anything that suggests catastrophic failure in Polaris forums ? link ?

heres what i found, about 3/4 the way down the page...http://www.snowestonline.com/forum/showthread.php?t=288952&highlight=zbroz+arms

probably nothing catastrophic, i was just wondering what was being done to deal with it.

 

[Barcode]

I have been making snowmobile front suspensions for the past 12 years and in that time I have learned a lot…. Some good and a lot of bad. One thing about front suspensions is they are the first thing to a coalition and take a bigger pounding than any other part on the sled. If they are to strong they will take out our bulkhead. If they are to light then they will brake under normal use. <O</O
If Skinz is truly using a ½” rod end on the bottom a-arm then that is to light duty and will not matter what quality of joint they use. They will bend and brake over time even if you do not hit anything. They must be a 5/8” rod end to be strong enough. We use 4140 chrome Molly steel that is heat treated and hard chromed in our front ends and they are plenty strong. To fix the problem they are going to have to figure out how to put in 5/8” rod end or the problem will continue.<OThis is going to be a big safety issue if they do not.
<OSkinz is a top notch company that we do a lot of business with and I am sure they will make it rite with every customer.<O

Allen <O
Timbersled Products<O

So when are you going to start making a 3+/4+ forward kit for the Nytro. Kinda seems right up your ally.

 

[merlin2569]

Just got off the phone with Isaac up at Skinz had a really good conversation with him about this problem and he assured me that they are working on the problem. He told me to get the word out that anyone that has this kit should get ahold of them directly at 320-243-8771, they also have a list and will be getting ahold of you at some point. With that said I am sending my kit back to them and they are going to redrill and tap and put a 5/8 heim joint in my kit and I am positive that anyone else that wants to do the same they would be more then happy to do so for you. IMO Skinz is taking every measure they can to assure that they continue to have the best products out there. They are a top notch company to deal with and will continue to get my business.

 

[detz1000]

Just sent skinz an Email asking what I should do because we are going west mid Jan.Hope they can put 5/8'' heims in by then.Does anyone think that some of the problem could be that after people are done aligning front after install that they are cranking on the jam nuts to hard and stretching heim threads causing weakness.

 

[ruffryder]

Just sent skinz an Email asking what I should do because we are going west mid Jan.Hope they can put 5/8'' heims in by then.Does anyone think that some of the problem could be that after people are done aligning front after install that they are cranking on the jam nuts to hard and stretching heim threads causing weakness.

Might be best to actually call. They seem to have really good customer service and that way you could plan better.

 

[merlin2569]

I would recommend calling them also. I was told if you send the arms to them they will drill and tap and put the new heim joint in the same day that they get them and get the arms sent right back to you. I was wondering the same thing because we are also supposed to be going west in the middle of january.

 

[christopher]

Just spoke with Jeff from SKINZ.

He is having the Christmas from Hell.

Came out west to visit family and the entire fuel injection system on his truck failed. So he has been stuck for a couple days while he battles getting all of it replaced before he can travel again.

Jeff told me that Skinz will have an official statement on whats going on with the Heim Joints just as soon as he gets back to his office. Probably in the next couple days.


MEANWHILE This morning I got the following note from a rider.

I have ridden the new chromolly 1/2" joints, and am riding them again this weekend.

Had some fairly severe hits on rocks and stumps, and no issues. I think at 17,000 lb shear strength, the 1/2" will be quite sufficient.