Heim Joint Failures on SKINZ Concept A-Arms

[snowmanx]

Man I hope its not an issue, I have my front end kit but have not put it on yet, I'll be calling later today to the updated tie rods.

80-90km/h down the trail and have a failure...ya that would be bad, what's worse if it is 80-90mph down the trail like I get going.

Not going to lie, it makes me alittle nervous.

 

[summitboy]

Don't take a look in the polaris forums... seems they are having problems with the Zbroz front ends on their sleds too...

Funny i don't see anything that suggests catastrophic failure in Polaris forums ? link ? I'm pretty sure we are talking about the Nytro front end here. If you think the Skinz is the end all be all get your wallet out and buy one. You have a choice !

I believe the Zbros is better built. Just look at it. It is just a opinion. If my front end snapped and wrecked my sled or better yet injured me i would be a little upset !

 

[ruffryder]

Funny i don't see anything that suggests catastrophic failure in Polaris forums ? link ? I'm pretty sure we are talking about the Nytro front end here. If you think the Skinz is the end all be all get your wallet out and buy one. You have a choice !

I believe the Zbros is better built. Just look at it. It is just a opinion. If my front end snapped and wrecked my sled or better yet injured me i would be a little upset !

http://www.snowestonline.com/forum/showthread.php?t=288952&highlight=zbroz

here is some info.. looks like it should be fixed at the end of January..

http://www.snowestonline.com/forum/showthread.php?t=291220&highlight=zbroz

Not trying to shed some bad light on zbroz, just show that sometimes unexpected things happen. I am glad to see that BOTH companies seem to be doing what they can to make it right by their customers.

 

[Motleyone]

Skinz builds quality stuff and they stand behind it just as they are doing in this case. I have no skin in the game here (no pun intended), I just get a bit perturbed when guys come on and lay down their opinion about something without getting all the facts OR waiting for all the facts. To those of you that don't believe manufactorers of parts don't create a bad batch of products thing again, just take a look at Ski-Doo in 08 with the XP (xtreme pieceo'sh*t). All those drive shafts snapping was a supplier error in the metal used to create the shafts.

 

[ruffryder]

Skinz builds quality stuff and they stand behind it just as they are doing in this case. I have no skin in the game here (no pun intended), I just get a bit perturbed when guys come on and lay down their opinion about something without getting all the facts OR waiting for all the facts. To those of you that don't believe manufactorers of parts don't create a bad batch of products thing again, just take a look at Ski-Doo in 08 with the XP (xtreme pieceo'sh*t). All those drive shafts snapping was a supplier error in the metal used to create the shafts.

Good point. I guess people forget that rarely does a manufacturer make every single thing that they sell.

 

[christopher]

NOTE TO READERS:

I created this thread by EXTRACTING some of the first few posts from another thread and creating a new title.

SnoWest member K45 was the first post.
Therefore he "OWNS" this thread as he was the first poster in it.

K45 DELETED this thread as he was the "Owner" of it.

I have UN-DELETED it as it was just brought to my attention that it was missing.


I have no idea why K45 chose to delete it, but this is an IMPORTANT THREAD and contains vital information that should be freely dispersed to all SKINZ Concept A-Arms users.

 

[ruffryder]

why don't you just put a post by you as the first?

K45 might think it is a little unfair that it looks like he is the one that started the thread....

 

[christopher]

The time stamp on the forum can not be over-riden.
Every post that is made has to appear in the sequence of it's original creation.

So I can't create a new thread, and then pull all of the contents from this thread into it without causing the new post #1 to become the last post of the thread, thus K45 end's up owning the thread again.

Working on it.

 

[christopher]

Had to get "creative" to fix this, but I now OWN the thread so it will not be deleted again.

 

[Mountaintech]

The priority right now should be trying to inform as many of the buyers of these parts of the potential danger. Since Skinz doesn't know who the end users are maybe the dealers should get their butts in gear and spread the word.

 

[MotoPsycho]

I created this thread by EXTRACTING some of the first few posts from another thread and creating a new title.


K45 DELETED this thread as he was the "Owner" of it.

I have UN-DELETED it as it was just brought to my attention that it was missing.


I have no idea why K45 chose to delete it, but this is an IMPORTANT THREAD and contains vital information that should be freely dispersed to all SKINZ Concept A-Arms users.

Christopher,

First off, I would assume notification of the disappearance of this thead was brought to you by a highly regarded, and forward think member of this community... one whom has NO outside interest in the goings on of the thread, but merely concerned with lost intellectual content.

While I will not argue that this thread contains important information for customers that purchased a Skinz Concept front suspension, it also contains a large amount of uninformed statements, inflamatory comments, and a general air of defamatory undertones towards a well respected and stand-up company. There IS a smattering of the truth here and there, but you know as well as I that no one is interested in that - it's not the "dirt".

While I cannot speak for K45, I do have first hand knowledge of his situation, and I think I can intellegently "surmise" why he deleted his post. Let us suppose if you will, that perhaps his issue FINALLY made it through "proper channels". (i.e. a dealer or manufacturer, rather than a public forum)

Then, let us go out on a limb... perhaps those channels did what any good problem solvers would do:

#1 - Identify the problem.
#2 - Resolve a solution to the problem.
#3 - Institute the resolution.

Imagine now, that all the stars aligned on a cold December night. K45 was served in a manner that satisfied his needs and solved his problem. Maybe he felt that the thread he started unseemingly evolved into misguided and unfruitful banter, and it was best to retract his statements due to an impending riot. Or, maybe he just wanted it gone.

Reviving this thread will continue to perpetuate panic and negative press for an issue that is now being proactively addressed.


Here is an example:

The priority right now should be trying to inform as many of the buyers of these parts of the potential danger. Since Skinz doesn't know who the end users are maybe the dealers should get their butts in gear and spread the word.

Skinz has a list of every purchaser, shipping address, and kit that has left OFT Racing facilities. They are currently dealing with the issue as fast as they can...

This thread DID NOT initiate that, and is not helping to effectuate it in a timely manner.

I feel it is actually a DISSERVICE to the members, as well as the manufacturer to keep inciting meaningless posts. The brunt of information that is imperative for affected customers has be posted... at least lock the thread to circumvent further conjecture.

Thank you, and good night sir.

Moto - OFT Racing
moto@oftracing.com - for customer concerns

PS - TrueBlueMax, thank you for explaining to Lococoin; and Lococoin, thank you for respectfully listening - Taking care of customer service is much easier with civil communication.

 

[MotoPsycho]

The time stamp on the forum can not be over-riden.
Every post that is made has to appear in the sequence of it's original creation.

So I can't create a new thread, and then pull all of the contents from this thread into it without causing the new post #1 to become the last post of the thread, thus K45 end's up owning the thread again.

Oh yeah, one last thing... myself, being a past Admin of multiple vBulletin based forums, I would like to remind you of something I'm sure you are well aware of.

As the forum Admin, you are capable of editing ANY post on this site. That being said, you could full well insert your notification of a "thread resurection" into K45's first post as a preamble to his post. I believe you have edited one or two posts on SW before... I'm suprised you didn't think of that.

I ain't hatin' the player... just the games.

 

[TNytro162]

I guess I'll be contacting oft or skinz. Glad I read this thread !

 

[otis]

It's truly sad to watch a thread like this. The original post had an important message. There may be an issue with the heim joints. That's all. Then it morphed into brand bashing. It even went one step further with people promoting a competitors a-arms because of the issue. So far I've read about 2-3 heim joint failures. I am watching Skinz react to the issue and mandate an investigation with the supplier to determine the failure. I have witnessed a company issue a response to replace all heim joints that have failed and to anyone who wants a replacement. They have referred replacement issues to the dealers selling the product. This is just like any problem we have with other products. You don't immediately call Yamaha corporate to get an issue fixed. You work with the dealer who sold you the product. Skinz is acting in the same manner.

Leave the drama and emotion somewhere else. I'm glad to know about the issue and will be on the watch for any issues.

Otis

 

[M5-]

Christopher,

First off, I would assume notification of the disappearance of this thead was brought to you by a highly regarded, and forward think member of this community... one whom has NO outside interest in the goings on of the thread, but merely concerned with lost intellectual content.

While I will not argue that this thread contains important information for customers that purchased a Skinz Concept front suspension, it also contains a large amount of uninformed statements, inflamatory comments, and a general air of defamatory undertones towards a well respected and stand-up company. There IS a smattering of the truth here and there, but you know as well as I that no one is interested in that - it's not the "dirt".

While I cannot speak for K45, I do have first hand knowledge of his situation, and I think I can intellegently "surmise" why he deleted his post. Let us suppose if you will, that perhaps his issue FINALLY made it through "proper channels". (i.e. a dealer or manufacturer, rather than a public forum)

Then, let us go out on a limb... perhaps those channels did what any good problem solvers would do:

#1 - Identify the problem.
#2 - Resolve a solution to the problem.
#3 - Institute the resolution.

Imagine now, that all the stars aligned on a cold December night. K45 was served in a manner that satisfied his needs and solved his problem. Maybe he felt that the thread he started unseemingly evolved into misguided and unfruitful banter, and it was best to retract his statements due to an impending riot. Or, maybe he just wanted it gone.

Reviving this thread will continue to perpetuate panic and negative press for an issue that is now being proactively addressed.


Here is an example:




Skinz has a list of every purchaser, shipping address, and kit that has left OFT Racing facilities. They are currently dealing with the issue as fast as they can...

This thread DID NOT initiate that, and is not helping to effectuate it in a timely manner.

I feel it is actually a DISSERVICE to the members, as well as the manufacturer to keep inciting meaningless posts. The brunt of information that is imperative for affected customers has be posted... at least lock the thread to circumvent further conjecture.

Thank you, and good night sir.

Moto - OFT Racing
moto@oftracing.com - for customer concerns

PS - TrueBlueMax, thank you for explaining to Lococoin; and Lococoin, thank you for respectfully listening - Taking care of customer service is much easier with civil communication.

Dude you should be getting paid if you aren't. You can believe what ever you want to but there are people on here with knowledge and experience in both the sledding world as well as other engineering applications so its perhaps the Opinions are not as uninformed as you may think. I understand the need to keep costs reasonable when you bring a product to market so maybe the rod ends are from the lowest bidder maybe they are not doesn't matter the fact is and I'll put my reputation on the line here The Ends Are Too Small, end of discussion. Have they factored in temperature, just wait till somebody is ripping accross a lake at -30 degrees with wind chill etc and the rod ends are cold and brittle, whole different game. I'm not slaggin Skinz here on the contrary I commend them on their response but fact is they have an issue that could injure or kill somebody and people need to be informed. I believe that Skinz will get it done but the solution isn't going to be a new supplier I'll put money on it, so in the mean time are you going to let your wife or son or daughter ride that product? Think about that before you come on here sayin its all rosy every one stand by no need to worry.

M5

 

[paulharris]

wow that zbroz polaris a-arm folded up like a piece of tin foil. looks like zbroz is not perfect either

 

[justinkredible56]

Just to update and provide insight because I'm apparently doing R&D. I replaced my broken heim joint and went on my second ride on these a arms. I hit a small rock going 5 mph and I broke the lower heim on the other side. Not a happy camper. I'm scared to ride my sled because I'm sick of having to limp out of the backcountry. From my understanding, skinz is taking care of us by replacing our heim joints with new ones from a different manufacturer. They are sticking with 1/2" heim joints, whether or not they will prove to stand the test of time, we'll see. I'll try and keep people updated. In a situation like this information is our friend, and the more of it the better, as long as it's useful in finding a solution.

 

[tmk50]

Just to update and provide insight because I'm apparently doing R&D. I replaced my broken heim joint and went on my second ride on these a arms. I hit a small rock going 5 mph and I broke the lower heim on the other side. Not a happy camper. I'm scared to ride my sled because I'm sick of having to limp out of the backcountry. From my understanding, skinz is taking care of us by replacing our heim joints with new ones from a different manufacturer. They are sticking with 1/2" heim joints, whether or not they will prove to stand the test of time, we'll see. I'll try and keep people updated. In a situation like this information is our friend, and the more of it the better, as long as it's useful in finding a solution.

Did it shear off in the exact same spot? Did they both break clean at the end of the a-arm?

 

[acutah]

All kinds of information is good. As long as it is factual based information. The problem here is we have too many people offering opinions as if they know anything first hand about what is going on. I appreciate the first hand info just not the running of the mouth. As the owner of several businesses I know the value and detriment of people running there mouth. Let's give Skinz the time to address the problem if there truly is one. We all know there isn't much snow.... I for one, being an owner of their front end am going to wait before making ANY judgements about this.

One point I would like to make. Some of you guys have no idea the damage your uninformed keyboard jockeying can make. Pretty sad actually...I don't know why some of you even care anyway. Go build your own stuff if you're the expert and give Skinz the opportunity to address THEIR issues.

 

[Mountaintech]

Christopher,

First off, I would assume notification of the disappearance of this thead was brought to you by a highly regarded, and forward think member of this community... one whom has NO outside interest in the goings on of the thread, but merely concerned with lost intellectual content.

While I will not argue that this thread contains important information for customers that purchased a Skinz Concept front suspension, it also contains a large amount of uninformed statements, inflamatory comments, and a general air of defamatory undertones towards a well respected and stand-up company. There IS a smattering of the truth here and there, but you know as well as I that no one is interested in that - it's not the "dirt".

While I cannot speak for K45, I do have first hand knowledge of his situation, and I think I can intellegently "surmise" why he deleted his post. Let us suppose if you will, that perhaps his issue FINALLY made it through "proper channels". (i.e. a dealer or manufacturer, rather than a public forum)

Then, let us go out on a limb... perhaps those channels did what any good problem solvers would do:

#1 - Identify the problem.
#2 - Resolve a solution to the problem.
#3 - Institute the resolution.

Imagine now, that all the stars aligned on a cold December night. K45 was served in a manner that satisfied his needs and solved his problem. Maybe he felt that the thread he started unseemingly evolved into misguided and unfruitful banter, and it was best to retract his statements due to an impending riot. Or, maybe he just wanted it gone.

Reviving this thread will continue to perpetuate panic and negative press for an issue that is now being proactively addressed.


Here is an example:




Skinz has a list of every purchaser, shipping address, and kit that has left OFT Racing facilities. They are currently dealing with the issue as fast as they can...

This thread DID NOT initiate that, and is not helping to effectuate it in a timely manner.

I feel it is actually a DISSERVICE to the members, as well as the manufacturer to keep inciting meaningless posts. The brunt of information that is imperative for affected customers has be posted... at least lock the thread to circumvent further conjecture.

Thank you, and good night sir.

Moto - OFT Racing
moto@oftracing.com - for customer concerns

PS - TrueBlueMax, thank you for explaining to Lococoin; and Lococoin, thank you for respectfully listening - Taking care of customer service is much easier with civil communication.

I stand by what I posted. To quote my post as an example of "perpetuating panic and negative press" is somewhat obtuse of you. You don't seem to understand the severity of this situation. I am not putting down Skinz. I commend OFT on providing the manufacturer end user info. Let's hope the others can follow OFT's example so that everyone who has these parts is aware of the potential failure. That is definitely not the fact right now.