Skinz is using CHROME MOLY.
So that is not the issue at hand.
So that is not the issue at hand.
Heim Joint Failures on SKINZ Concept A-Arms
- Thread starter christopher
- Start date
It's kinda hard to tell from that pic but they don't look like high deflection rod ends but I could be wrong, usually it'll have a collar built right into the ball, also all Cro Mo is not created equal, there's a reason why 1 brand costs $70 an end and the other is $13. Food for thought.
M5
What size is the shaft on the rod end. Timbersled uses 5/8" and I've never seen one of his break.
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Skinz is usung 1/2 which could be a problem
I ran timber for 2 years with big gen 2 simmons and never broke anything...but we dont ride in marginal snow.
I ran timber for 2 years with big gen 2 simmons and never broke anything...but we dont ride in marginal snow.
I ran timbersled front end for a few seasons their stuff is surprising durable, rode in all snow conditions, had some hard hits wrecked some spindles, went through some bushings, last year I finnally cracked the weld on the shock mount, re did that and they were still solid.
True story, As for the heim joints or rod ends, sorry I've been calling them eye bolts (too many years on the farm, we have all sorts of names for things), here is a picture of my replacement one. This is the standard one that would have been shipped out with all of the kits.
So that is what SKINZ just sent you as a replacement?
Or is that something you bought on the open market??
Or is that something you bought on the open market??
That is what Scott at OFT racing sent me as a replacement. It's exactly the same as current OEM.
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That is not a high misalignment joint so at full travel it will bind tansfering the force to the bolt. Something like on the link below is what is needed. I can't remember off the top of my head but the Nytro travels 15 -16 degrees. I measured it once but the memory aint what it used to be.
http://aurora.thomasnet.com/item/br...lignment-series-male-rod-ends/hxam-8tm-500-2?
m5
http://aurora.thomasnet.com/item/br...lignment-series-male-rod-ends/hxam-8tm-500-2?
m5
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- Body - 4340 alloy steel (AMS-S-5000), heat treated, cadmium plated.
- Race - Alloy steel, heat treated, plated for corrosion resistance.
- Ball - 52100 steel (AMS 7440), heat treated, hard chrome plated (AMS-QQ-C-320, Class2).
- Liner - AT 3200 bearing liner, permanently bonded to race inside diameter. Qualified to SAE-AS81820.
- Units are traceable and are magnetic particle inspected after assembly.
- Rod End Bearings listed in tables below are shown with SAE-AS81820 Ptfe liners. These Rod Ends are available less the Ptfe liners. Omit "T" from the suffix in the part number. (Ex: HXAM-6M-500)
- For non-Ptfe lined units the radial clearance is .002 max. (for .0005 max use suffix R)(Ex: HXAM-6RM-500).
- For keyway designation, consult our engineering department.
- For dry-film lubrication on inside diameter of races, add suffix D (Ex: HXAM-6DM-500). For dry-film on ball bore and or ball outside diameter, consult factory.
- Consult factory for material substitutions or dimensional modification possibilities.
- Rod Ends are traceable and magnetic particle inspected. For non-traceable and non-magnetic particle inspected, contact factory.
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<nobr>larger image</nobr>
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G
GREICO1
Well-known member
I agree-well kind of. If you look at the pic of the Heim from Skinz, it does appear to have a shoulder to it-a small one. High mis-alignment joints typically had a narrower body allowing for the greater travel in the ball of the joint. Even if there is no shoulder, a properly machined (conical) spacer will still allow for the higher degree of travel. One thing that strikes my curiosity would be if the joint was installed with a "twist" to it and tightened down. This can restrict the travel and cause the ball or bolt to contact the body of the joint resulting in the same kind of failure. Whatever the cause, Jeff is not one to save you a couple of buck just to make something more affordable. The company was not founded on just Ok products, and the family takes great pride in making sure the customer is happy. I have know him for a while now and had this been an issue in testing, they wouldn't be out. If you get them, don't be the kid on Xmas opening your gift, but take time to make sure EVERYTHING is right. We have all been there and we have all failed at some point. If there is an issue with the part, Skinz will make it right.
First watch this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOvNhHBuOTI
While I hate to admit it, that was me at the controls. I was running one of the first prototype Concept front ends test riding for Skinz. The sled rode out the rest of the day after this incident. A small wrinkle in the lower a-arm, as well as, a bend in the heim joint was later discovered. Considering the impact, I believe that the front end held up a lot better than I expected it to. I was surprised to see the ski still attached.
The heim joints on my prototype front end seen in this video were the same ones that were supposed to be supplied with the production version of the Skinz Concept front end kits. It now appears that the production ones that were supplied are not up to spec and everyone is vigorously trying to find out what is wrong.
There is no problem with the vertical travel and the ability of the heim joints to align themselves properly throughout the travel of the suspension. It has been checked and re-checked.
The problems are sporadic. However, it looks like some of the heim joints may have failed prematurely. Skinz has dumped their original vendor and will replace the original lower heim joints that were shipped with the front ends free of charge.
-Crash Test Dummy
aka scmurs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOvNhHBuOTI
While I hate to admit it, that was me at the controls. I was running one of the first prototype Concept front ends test riding for Skinz. The sled rode out the rest of the day after this incident. A small wrinkle in the lower a-arm, as well as, a bend in the heim joint was later discovered. Considering the impact, I believe that the front end held up a lot better than I expected it to. I was surprised to see the ski still attached.
The heim joints on my prototype front end seen in this video were the same ones that were supposed to be supplied with the production version of the Skinz Concept front end kits. It now appears that the production ones that were supplied are not up to spec and everyone is vigorously trying to find out what is wrong.
There is no problem with the vertical travel and the ability of the heim joints to align themselves properly throughout the travel of the suspension. It has been checked and re-checked.
The problems are sporadic. However, it looks like some of the heim joints may have failed prematurely. Skinz has dumped their original vendor and will replace the original lower heim joints that were shipped with the front ends free of charge.
-Crash Test Dummy
aka scmurs
Scott,
Will you guys be sending these out based on who ordered from you, or will we need to call you? When is this expected to happen?
Thanks for letting us know
kirk
Mine Broke exactly like that. 2nd day on the snow. Might order the zbroz in case it happens again!!
So to be clear, your Eye bolt, the one that attaches from the end of the lower A-Arm to the spindle broke off just like mine? As seen in this picture...
To clarify, my A-Arm is 100% unharmed. I haven't fixed it yet but I have a replacement eye bolt and I'm hoping it won't be too big of a pain to get it out without messing the threads up.
M
MotoPsycho
Well-known member
New rod ends are all that is needed. The Skinz arms are as bulletproof as any...
I broke stuff too... The difference is, if the rod end hadn't failed the rest of the sled would have.
Granite basketballs don't bounce... Yamaha's do.
I broke stuff too... The difference is, if the rod end hadn't failed the rest of the sled would have.
Granite basketballs don't bounce... Yamaha's do.
Good Call !
Thank you boy scouts for teaching me how to lash...never thought it would pay off.
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