Gearing, Clutching, helix, springs, MDS 2016 update

[WyoBoy1000]

Last I check it takes flyweights and a drive spring in the drive and a spring and helix in the driven to complete the setup.... If you were reading my post carefully I was talking only about flyweights as they relate to peak rpm.

If your sled can't hit peak rpm there's a good chance your flyweights are to heavy .... If your over reving there a good chance your flyweights are 2 lite.

MDS & SLP MTX flyweights are heavy IMO

DPG

Wrong again, you have to have the complete setup. If you put a 50* helix in and dropped weight to hit rpm you will never have any power even if you do achieve rpm.
Mds and mtx weights are heavy for a reason, they apply more power to the track.
I have seen as much as 9mph track speed changes with mds weights, yet both clutch setups pulled the exact same rpm in a climb.
Yet mds pulled more speed and flew past the high mark of the other setup.

As I said, there is a big difference in applied centrifugal weight vs actual weight.

 

[summ8rmk]

If the weights are centrifugal then the rollers and spring are the centripetal force?

GS6

 

[WyoBoy1000]

If the weights are centrifugal then the rollers and spring are the centripetal force?

GS6

Rollers don't apply force, the spring only applies direct force, that's all

 

[Deep Powder Guy]

Wrong again, you have to have the complete setup. If you put a 50* helix in and dropped weight to hit rpm you will never have any power even if you do achieve rpm.
Mds and mtx weights are heavy for a reason, they apply more power to the track.
I have seen as much as 9mph track speed changes with mds weights, yet both clutch setups pulled the exact same rpm in a climb.
Yet mds pulled more speed and flew past the high mark of the other setup.

As I said, there is a big difference in applied centrifugal weight vs actual weight.

The arc of the flyweight and where you load the weight dictates how the fly weight shifts .... Depending how you load the weight you can either generate more bottom end or more top end to achieve what you want ... You can run a 48, 47, 46 degree helix or multi angle helix and if your weight flyweight is correct you can achieve peak rpm ..... You have much more consistency over your rpm with Cutler adjustable flyweights or similar flyweight than you do with MDS, MTX , Heavy Hitters or HeelClickers .... You should never rely on your helix to achieve peak rpm.

DPG

 

[summ8rmk]

http://www.diffen.com/difference/Centrifugal_Force_vs_Centripetal_Force
Just sayin.....

GS6

 

[knh208]

The arc of the flyweight and where you load the weight dictates how the fly weight shifts .... Depending how you load the weight you can either generate more bottom end or more top end to achieve what you want ... You can run a 48, 47, 46 degree helix or multi angle helix and if your weight flyweight is correct you can achieve peak rpm ..... You have much more consistency over your rpm with Cutler adjustable flyweights or similar flyweight than you do with MDS, MTX , Heavy Hitters or HeelClickers .... You should never rely on your helix to achieve peak rpm.

DPG

It's a clutch system. The behavior of the primary and secondary are related. The secondary controls shifting, and if it is shifting quickly (high angle helix) it will load the engine heavily. If you go too far on helix angle and need to start dropping weight to hold peak RPM, then you're giving up belt grip and track speed.

If it were that simple, you wouldn't ever change anything other than weights.

Getting 80% of the way there is easy. Buy a kit, toss it in and never touch anything beyond the set screws in your Cutler weights.

It's fun to chase it further and further. Especially when you find the right combo that gives another sled length over your buddy!

 

[CO 2.0]

Rode today over 11k ft. Heavy spring type pow. Running same setup as last ride in 3ft at 10k. Ran same as the stock 16 I was crushing Thursday. Obviously type of snow and load played a big role today. I took all weight out of mds and it ran way worse. Just revs and didnt load the motor at all. Also bad upshift but still great backshift. Im gonna go back to the 43 to gain upshift. Then put weight back in the mds.

 

[WyoBoy1000]

The arc of the flyweight and where you load the weight dictates how the fly weight shifts .... Depending how you load the weight you can either generate more bottom end or more top end to achieve what you want ... You can run a 48, 47, 46 degree helix or multi angle helix and if your weight flyweight is correct you can achieve peak rpm ..... You have much more consistency over your rpm with Cutler adjustable flyweights or similar flyweight than you do with MDS, MTX , Heavy Hitters or HeelClickers .... You should never rely on your helix to achieve peak rpm.

DPG

You will never get the same pull with the other weights, I've tried. Didn't pull add hard.

Do you even own a cat

 

[Deep Powder Guy]

You will never get the same pull with the other weights, I've tried. Didn't pull add hard.

Do you even own a cat

It not about pulling hard it's about maintaining consistent track speed ..... Many setups pull hard and than fall on there face because there not set correctly or operating at peak rpm ..... FYI, the secondary (driven) responds to input from the belt ... That input is directly related to how the primary (drive) is responding to the PTO ( power take off ) of the motor.

I currently own a 2014 Cat 800 Snopro 925 mod, 2015 Polaris RMK SLP stage 3 mod & a 2015 stock XM mod and there all tuned to run at peak rpm.... Simple Rule: if you focus your attention on tuning your sled for peak rpm making helix changes becomes a breeze.

DPG

 

[CO 2.0]

Well I know why my clutching wasn't working as well yesterday. MDS weights have a flat spot right behind the bottom hole on all the weights. my rollers are fine. 500 miles on the weights

 

[summ8rmk]

Is the metal too soft?
Have u talked to Steve?

GS6

 

[CO 2.0]

Or 16 clutches dont like the profile. Gonna call him tomorrow.

 

[madmax]

Well I know why my clutching wasn't working as well yesterday. MDS weights have a flat spot right behind the bottom hole on all the weights. my rollers are fine. 500 miles on the weights

Wyo, do your MDS weights look like this? Flat in the center part? Mine have about 400 miles in them. My sled has not been running consistently the last few rides. Pulled the weights and thought they didnt look right, flat in the center. The picture doesn't quite capture it, but the curve is gone and its flat.

 

[mmsports]

Wow.

Looks like your all having fun.

Guess this proves more than one way to skin a cat.

Be interesting to see if cat gets closer on clutching on the 17 cats.

 

[WyoBoy1000]

It not about pulling hard it's about maintaining consistent track speed ..... Many setups pull hard and than fall on there face because there not set correctly or operating at peak rpm ..... FYI, the secondary (driven) responds to input from the belt ... That input is directly related to how the primary (drive) is responding to the PTO ( power take off ) of the motor.

I currently own a 2014 Cat 800 Snopro 925 mod, 2015 Polaris RMK SLP stage 3 mod & a 2015 stock XM mod and there all tuned to run at peak rpm.... Simple Rule: if you focus your attention on tuning your sled for peak rpm making helix changes becomes a breeze.

DPG

So you have no idea what we are dealing with on the 16.
My 14 killed everything, belts ran cool, with great backshift! I don't need your opinion on clutching we already figured out.

 

[WyoBoy1000]

Looks like your all having fun.

Guess this proves more than one way to skin a cat.

Be interesting to see if cat gets closer on clutching on the 17 cats.

Nothing that I can see changed on the 17. Having higher gears they work really well with mds and weight in the middle hole instead of tip, and a 43* helix.

What did you figure out.

 

[WyoBoy1000]

Wyo, do your MDS weights look like this? Flat in the center part? Mine have about 400 miles in them. My sled has not been running consistently the last few rides. Pulled the weights and thought they didnt look right, flat in the center. The picture doesn't quite capture it, but the curve is gone and its flat.

Hard to say but I think so, in the stiffer snow move the weight more to the middle

 

[Marble]

i put 20/50 on wife's 16' M6000 LTD last weekend, she say than work better and i try it, better on climb, better on tree riding, seriously, 19/50 with 7t it's a joke. My 16' m8000 ltd run flaws with 21/49. we ride at 3000ft.

 

[CO 2.0]

Steve has no clue why the weights would have flat spots in them. He has tons on the snow and even his have 800 miles on them with no issues. Says they have the same shift point as the stock weights. He is sending me a new set out today and I'm gonna send him back mine. Talk about great customer service!

 

[summ8rmk]

Steve is great to deal with. Leave him a message on a sunday and he'll call u back on sunday.

Also, if i need parts the same day, I live about 30 miles from him.

GS6