Gearing, Clutching, helix, springs, MDS 2016 update
- Thread starter WyoBoy1000
- Start date
If top speed hasn't changed at all then why are you chasing the rabbit ? I have a hard time believing you're getting 35-39mph track speed in 2ft of pow pulling downwards of 7500rpm. You also did ride snow that was way more setup yesterday than what we both rode riding Friday on opposite sides of the range. Probably were getting on top of the snow better and getting more track speed that way yesterday. I know the snow Friday was way deeper than even what I rode Saturday by about a foot in the same area. It was setting up quick. I can't get over how snappy and great pull my 16 has with lower gearing and lighter weights than what you have, even while over revving. It feels like your 14 did.
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well its a Team primary, different weight design[/QUOTE]
i have a team primary on my 14. i assumed Armey had the team also?
with ur quote i thought u were referencing team primary needs to change depending on what secondary u run. ie: team secondary vs cat secondary.
Stock cat primary and secondary for me. Thinking of switching to Team though.
OTE=summ8rmk;3951002]well its a Team primary, different weight design[/QUOTE]
i have a team primary on my 14. i assumed Armey had the team also?
with ur quote i thought u were referencing team primary needs to change depending on what secondary u run. ie: team secondary vs cat secondary.[/QUOTE]
OTE=summ8rmk;3951002]well its a Team primary, different weight design[/QUOTE]
i have a team primary on my 14. i assumed Armey had the team also?
with ur quote i thought u were referencing team primary needs to change depending on what secondary u run. ie: team secondary vs cat secondary.[/QUOTE]
Track speed was based on very low ground speed while trenching, left about a 16"-24" trench
I think your trying to run way to much secondary spring I run 3-5000 feet in AK so I'm making more hp but it doesnt make sense that you need that much spring. controlling the shift with a multi angle helix and weights is way more efficient than a giant spring your motor has to overcome on the upshift.
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It will not pull the 48 with less spring and tall gears, with 2.54 gears it will pull the 43 but doesn't pull add hard as the taller 2.45 gears, it won't pull the 43 with tall gears, so going to a stiffer secondary to get backshift was a possibility. It will pull a 40 with 2.45 gears but won't shift up after 40mph worth a darn. Honestly it feels the best with the stiff spring and 48. Even with bad backshift. So you tell me.
I'm not just dealing with theory here, I've ran about 15 different setups. Got any facts to back up your thinking?
Wondering if it had something to do with tuning from the ecu
are you running the same spring with all the helixes? It not pulling the 48 with a soft spring and tall gears makes since, its shifting out the driven clutch to fast and cant overcome the tall gears once the clutch is in high gear. why not try a multi angle from stm? a 48/38 or a 48/36 that would definitely improve your back shift and you could run less finish rate on your spring less, in "theory" upshift and backshift would improve. Stm claims that the new team helix angles are 5° steeper than the equivalent 2012-2015 so if you were running a 36° in previous years a 41° team secondary would be an equivalent set up.
The 48 shifts better on top than the 40 and 43, so a reverse angle doesn't make sense either. That's the crazy part.
Soft spring is the same but stiffer spring backshift and holds rpm better
Maybe a cutler torsional is the ticket, ACMtnCat posted up some good results at a little lower elevation than me using a 48.
Maybe a 45 torsional would do it.
Maybe a 45 torsional would do it.
Added shortest drilled screw in bottom hole to mds weights today. Still hitting 8300-8400 in pow. Was average 2-4ft deep of fresh today. Pulling 36mph minimum. Most the day pulling 40mph at 10000ft. Ran like a raped ape. Best track speed ive seen all season in any kind of pow over a foot deep. Ya doesnt like over 55mph on trail, but who gives a $hit. Destroyed a stock setup 16 m8000 today, and he was pulling 8000. Will prob add even more weight to mds and try it. Funny thing is the one time all day sled went down to 8000-8100rpm the track speed went down substantially. Sled really likes 8250-8350 the best. Dont care what a dyno at sea level says.
Check my post above for setup
Check my post above for setup
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RPM
One thing I have thought at sea level 8050-8100 where ther produce power but as you go up in alt these sleds change timeing. It seems be big change around 10000 feet so maybe that moves heat in pipe an power curve changes ? I feel mine have always ran better an 8200 8300 rpm at 9500 feet plus. Stock Pipe
One thing I have thought at sea level 8050-8100 where ther produce power but as you go up in alt these sleds change timeing. It seems be big change around 10000 feet so maybe that moves heat in pipe an power curve changes ? I feel mine have always ran better an 8200 8300 rpm at 9500 feet plus. Stock Pipe
At 7kft 8300rpm feels weak and track speed is way down.. around 38mph vs 43+ at 8000rpm.
With track speed at 38 i have a hard time climbing and feels like a turd or a 600. 43-46 on long hills and climbs great feels like an 800
GS6
With track speed at 38 i have a hard time climbing and feels like a turd or a 600. 43-46 on long hills and climbs great feels like an 800
GS6
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I agree with them liking more rpm up high, always seems like 8150 -8300 was strong, even in 2012
D
Deep Powder Guy
Banned
8100 to 8150 is peak rpm regardless of your altitude. Clutching your sled accordingly to achieve peak rpm begins with using the correct flyweights ... Around here @ 8000 to 1000 feet 66 grams +/- for deep snow & 68 grams +/- hard pack spring snow is spot on perfect on my 2014 M8.
MDS flyweights are to "heavy " 78 grams empty if I remember and don't run consistent from one day to the next ...Simple rule of thumb to follow if your sled struggles to make peak rpm your weights are to "heavy" .... If your sled is over revving your weights are to "lite".
DPG
MDS flyweights are to "heavy " 78 grams empty if I remember and don't run consistent from one day to the next ...Simple rule of thumb to follow if your sled struggles to make peak rpm your weights are to "heavy" .... If your sled is over revving your weights are to "lite".
DPG
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Testing with tons of different setups in deep pow at elevation is what shows ME results. If I was to just change the weights and leave the rest stock then I wouldn't have been crushing a stock clutched 2016 M8000 yesterday that was pulling 8000rpm+.
D
Deep Powder Guy
Banned
Last I check it takes flyweights and a drive spring in the drive and a spring and helix in the driven to complete the setup.... If you were reading my post carefully I was talking only about flyweights as they relate to peak rpm.
If your sled can't hit peak rpm there's a good chance your flyweights are to heavy .... If your over reving there a good chance your flyweights are 2 lite.
MDS & SLP MTX flyweights are heavy IMO
DPG
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Mds are too heavy at 10-12k ft on the m series, even unloaded. I have no issues with MDS pulling great on the 16. Never tried them on my 12, 14, 15 proclimbs with older clutches. No you werent clear at all from your last post on the rest of the setup. Gearing too high or low can effect rpm as well under different load. Takes each individual clutching component to get you "perfect". Too high of gearing or too much helix can get you bogging down rpm in 3ft of pow when it runs and holds rpm fine in 1 ft of pow or hard pack. Load and elevation play a big roll in getting clutching optimal. Especially above 11k ft. 11k ft is a magic mark when clutching goes to crap. Have seen it on the last 10 sleds Ive owned. Always chasing that magical unicorn. Have to say my 16 cat is as good as Ive ever gotten clutching. With a 3" track to boot. With a similar setup Im still chasing that sweet spot on my Axys.
What you couldn't take the heat in the doo forum so you came over here.
MDS weights are completely different profile and you cannot compare grams.
With a stock weight you have to run 64-66g depending on helix, with mds and same setup you run 72-76g to get the same rpm.
Profile is different!
If you think you can run the same weight from 1000-8000ft your on something.
