CRANK'N my 06 900

[pura vida]

break in for belt

a little off topic but related...

dan, i would love to hear in detail what you believe to be proper belt break in procedures. also what your thoughts are on washing the belt prior to using it? if this is a good thing what do you wash it in? dawn dish soap? and third have your heard anything about the 115 belts grooving out primary's?
thanks

pv

 

[indydan]

a little off topic but related...

dan, i would love to hear in detail what you believe to be proper belt break in procedures. also what your thoughts are on washing the belt prior to using it? if this is a good thing what do you wash it in? dawn dish soap? and third have your heard anything about the 115 belts grooving out primary's?
thanks

pv

Wash Tub,....... Water as hot as you can stand it with Dawn dish soap. Brass wire brush and scrub the bottom & sides of the belt until its starts to turn white.

Then drive the sled easy for a few miles and let it get ( Lets say HAPPY!! ! ) and then your ready to go!!!!!!!

 

[pura vida]

thanks dan. so, without getting into clutching, gearing, and the rest of the setup, what do you expect for belt life on 150hp sled? or does hp have a big effect?

pv

 

[ACE 900]

Is anyone else going to switch to the "old" petro based oils? Indy Dan has got me convinced that the old oils will lube & protect better than the synthetics.

 

[hilinerider]

look into the citgo sea and sno, parial synthetic and when i put it in my old sleds that i was running conoco scat it they picked up 200 rpm. the citgo works good but i was not running it in my 03 800 but now that dan did my new bottom end that i needed after 3000 miles, i will run it in er,
i need to read the fine print on my warranty for my dragon to see if i can run it in her, citgo has on the jug that it is recommended for all manufacturers of sleds and watercraft, find out i guess

 

[94fordguy]

Hey Dan, that's interesting, I have always heard the advice that synthetics are "specially designed" to provide "superior protection" for the components. So now, I am hearing that the old Polaris Blue that I run in my old 440 is actually better to run in my '02 VES 800 than the VES Gold that I run now, and the VES II that the last owner always ran in it aswell?

When I bought my sled this summer, I took it in for a pre-season inspection/service, and they said that everything looked "great for an '02" (with 925 miles at the time)... I can't debate that you have seen many engines run with many different set-ups, but I kinda have to wonder; If it is working good in my engine, is there any reason that I should seriously consider changing?

I know, I am one of those people who buy into the "follow the leader" mentalities, (I even run the "Higher Mileage Engine" oil in my truck), but I am just curious about this whole situation now.

With about 1150 miles on it now, it is definitely in the category that I want to do what I can to keep it in the best shape I can... I guess I am just at a loss now

Thanks for the info tho, it is definitely advice to consider

 

[Storyboy]

Polaris Gold

Indy Dan has me nervous about Polaris Gold to. I have a 06 900 and my wife has a new 07 600. I have been running gold in both of them. The one thing that puzzles me is that the ves gold passes the highest ratings in both JASO and ISO. Not that many oils do. So how did they pass such high ratings if its such crap?

 

[mountainhorse]

I don't think that JASO and ISO test the oils Miscibility with Gasoline or the tenacity of the oil in coating parts for corrosion prevention.

I'd like to see some tech data on the comparison of the Miscibility of synth compared to mineral oil and the film strength/duration..

Fog those engines heavily during storage and listen to Dan about the heat soak... It can only help your engine.

 

[indydan]

I 'm not an oil expert, And I really don't want be tell anyone what they should or should not run. However I do know a few oils that for sure work over the long haul and none of them are synthetics.

Polaris does not tell people what oil to run. ( Its up to the dealer ) Polaris warranty does not know what kind of oil you run. ( They don't ask the dealer ) The dealer is the who can rasie helll if they see different oil in your tank.

I have desided that there is no way I can control what oil anyone runs in their sled so that being said, If any inner bearing or connecting rod problem that i see to be oil related can't be a warranty item. My warranty is really about the PTO side of the motor.

Chances are if anything is even questionable I am going to warranty it. Its just how I do things.

Dan

 

[indydan]

900 Crank Dynamic balance

I thought some of you might be interested in this new info.

We just got two cranks done, Dynamic balanced both.

One was a 900 Crank with OEM centers, and the new Heavier Billet MAG & PTO - Ends. ( Needed two tungsten weights 180 degrees from the rod pin ) In other words, even as heavy as the new billet webs are it still needed more weight.

The other 900 all Billet crank was so close to perfert it didn't need any weight added or taken off.

The OEM Center Crank Pictured with 33mm Billet PTO-End and Billet MAG - End.

Picture added shortly. Having carmera trouble.

 

[indydan]

900 Crank Pictures

Half Billet 900 Crank with balance weights

 

[Spaarky]

k.... I dont know what this thread is anymore, a crank, oil, or belt thread?..........

This got me to thinking today(BTW before I forget, holy crap you added some weight to that crank Dan). There has been many threads started to the downfalls of the Poo crank. Dan you have posted a few different threads or replys which you believe may lead to the cranks demise. Things like improper primary balance, case problems... ect....

I, myself am tired of all the Polaris is junk cause of their crank threads, but how much of the time do you think it is just that the crank is junk, or faulty. The question came to my head, because of this scenario....

Riding Cooke City(which you know well), buddy has his 04' 800 RMK, @ that point it has about 250 miles on it. We ride down to TOW for the day and are headed back. Just before we get to the parking lot, one of my buddies disappears. Went back for him, and crap, crank is done. Hauled the sled into town, and Rick tore it down. If I remember right it was the PTO end, dont remember the exact point it was spit, but it was in two (sorry, not good with exact lingo). Polairs overnights a crank and Rick has it put back together the next day.

I may be wrong, and I dont know what kind of mechanic Rick is, but I dont believe there was any machining, or any discussion of the cases. Basically what I am saying is there was no discussion of the things you talk about...

Now the sled hasnt skipped a beat, and has almost 4,000 miles on it. If there was a case problem, or some other underlying problem, wouldnt have he tore up another crank???

Do you understand what I am getting at???

 

[indydan]

Great questions

k.... I dont know what this thread is anymore, a crank, oil, or belt thread?..........

This got me to thinking today(BTW before I forget, holy crap you added some weight to that crank Dan). There has been many threads started to the downfalls of the Poo crank. Dan you have posted a few different threads or replys which you believe may lead to the cranks demise. Things like improper primary balance, case problems... ect....

I, myself am tired of all the Polaris is junk cause of their crank threads, but how much of the time do you think it is just that the crank is junk, or faulty. The question came to my head, because of this scenario....

Riding Cooke City(which you know well), buddy has his 04' 800 RMK, @ that point it has about 250 miles on it. We ride down to TOW for the day and are headed back. Just before we get to the parking lot, one of my buddies disappears. Went back for him, and crap, crank is done. Hauled the sled into town, and Rick tore it down. If I remember right it was the PTO end, dont remember the exact point it was spit, but it was in two (sorry, not good with exact lingo). Polairs overnights a crank and Rick has it put back together the next day.

I may be wrong, and I dont know what kind of mechanic Rick is, but I dont believe there was any machining, or any discussion of the cases. Basically what I am saying is there was no discussion of the things you talk about...

Now the sled hasnt skipped a beat, and has almost 4,000 miles on it. If there was a case problem, or some other underlying problem, wouldnt have he tore up another crank???

Do you understand what I am getting at???

Justin, you bring up some great questions.

as for Rick at Cooke City exxon, I have never seen Rick work on anything first hand, I have had Rick do a few things for me while I was there riding.

he is a very capable wrench and has a great abilty to ( lets say get things done ) he has seen far more engine problems then many average shop mechanics. And there are alot of facts that enter into your comparison ( 250 miles on a OEM built motor, verses a rebuilt motor with a new OEM crank that has gone 4000 miles.) it can be as simple as, The first crank that was installed was not tru to start with ( lets say .003 runout on the PTO-side ) and the crank was its own worst enemy. Or the Rod pin was to hard and it just broke.

Or both cranks were the same and the crank case was to tight and the tramma from the first crank going out could have loosened the case and added needed clearance ( and it was all luck ).

Or, its possible the factory worker ( or workers ) did a poor job at assembling the case ( used to much sealer ) Lets say he applied the case sealer and then got interupted and the sealr set-up and when he bolted it together the case fit was to loose and the crank did not have the proper support it needed to hold the crank tru.

My belief would be that Rick just did a better job at dotting all the ( I's ) and crossing all the ( T's ) them the mass produced motor assembly and thats that.

This thread has taken some strange turns, - But in the end its just information, And what great mechancis do is read between the lines and take out the info that you believe works for you and put it in your arsenal of things to remember.

Its mostly simple logic, There is alot to be said for time in service and the more one see the more one learns. small volume shops that see vary few motors do not have the advantages that large volume shops.

Chances are, Rick at Cooke has seen more motor damage from deep snow and big tracks then 10 midwest shops put together. Rick also has the abilty and expertise to rebuild crankshafts. Most deals do not. I can almost quarranty rick doesn't put a crank in a case without checking the runout.

Most shops in the midwest don't even have a dial indicator or fixtures to hold the crank. ( Sad but true ) IMO this is not the shops fault, Its Polaris's fault they should work harder to insure their dealers have the resourses to do things correctly. ( But they don't )

Justin, does this help...........

Dan

 

[Lake Cle Elum]

Dan: Quck question: What's max runout on an 800 crank before it's time to tear into it? I think I heard someone say .012 inch (not mm)?

I bought a used '04 (159 track) from an older guy with 2,800 miles on it....First thing I did was check the runout and it was was: .0047.....I'm not young and don't ride hard anymore, my plan is to pull the clutch and check it every 500 miles until I can go thru everything and send the crank to you one summer in the near future? BTW, I have lite mods with SLP pipe, V-force and airbox stuff.....Thax..

 

[indydan]

800 Poo crank run out

Dan: Quck question: What's max runout on an 800 crank before it's time to tear into it? I think I heard someone say .012 inch (not mm)?

I bought a used '04 (159 track) from an older guy with 2,800 miles on it....First thing I did was check the runout and it was was: .0047.....I'm not young and don't ride hard anymore, my plan is to pull the clutch and check it every 500 miles until I can go thru everything and send the crank to you one summer in the near future? BTW, I have lite mods with SLP pipe, V-force and airbox stuff.....Thax..

.003 run out, Out of the case is max so Polaris says.

in the case should .002 or less

removing your drive clutch is a terrible tramma to the crank. don't remove it unless you need to service it.

you will feel it in the handle bars if things are getting worse.

 

[Lake Cle Elum]

Got it....Thanks much Dan.......

 

[Spaarky]

Justin, does this help...........

Dan

Yah, totally. Its basically a lot of your findings, just a little different situation.

kinda like this point.....

And what great mechancis do is read between the lines and take out the info that you believe works for you and put it in your arsenal of things to remember.

I just needed to think about it longer..... and use some of the data to diagnose the problem.

Hopefully that wasnt taken as a slight to Rick. I just thought maybe you knew him a little better than I did. Plus I am sure it is tough for him to be as detailed as what is probally the best machine shop in the Midwest....

 

[Clarke673]

My dad went to school with rick and we are all good friends. Rick fixes al of our sleds and we ahve never had a problem. He is a great guy, does the job right, and promt. But he is the kind of guy that doesn't get outa bed for less then $100

He charges $200 to get one of his rentals unstuck. My dad had a baring go out on his drive shaft so we were down at the shop and a guy wanted help geting unstuck so i did it for $100 It took 5 minuets and i discovered a untouched medow to play in

 

[skibreeze]

Always enjoy reading Indydan's posts, very informative.

To: I own u
I can't believe that you'd charge somebody to help unstick their sled, if it took all day to get it out, then that would be a different story

 

[ttyR2]

I'm no oil specialist, but I'd venture a guess that synthetics are much more appropriate for a 4 stroke engine that uses a lubrication system that recirculates oil whereas a 2 stroke engine is a "constant loss" type system where oil is burned and not re-used. In a 4 stroke, the oil needs to keep dirt and deposits in suspension so the filter can remove it along with not breaking down on the cylinder walls and in the bearings because the oil is constantly being recirculated until you do an oil change.

Just my $0.02 worth