Thanks, I just picked up some injex oil. I can't find the snowmobile two stroke oil around here. The local checkers had the two stroke oil for motorcycles but the pour point is only -20.
CRANK'N my 06 900
- Thread starter CLARENCE
- Start date
Thanks, I just picked up some injex oil. I can't find the snowmobile two stroke oil around here. The local checkers had the two stroke oil for motorcycles but the pour point is only -20.
I guess after reading back through this I'm gonna just go with the Wally World TCW-3 stuff as well. That stuff is even cheaper than the Polaris Blue stuff.
I've still got a gallon and a quart of the VES-II crap, I guess I can give that to my buddy
I've still got a gallon and a quart of the VES-II crap, I guess I can give that to my buddy
Running an 06 900 myself and now you guys have me wondering what to put in it for oil my next trip. I know it was asked earlier, but is it recommended to mix the VES-gold I am running now with the old blue I am about to run out and buy...or do I need to empty out the VES-Gold junk
I for one will not buy or use any oil product that I know comes from that tyrant hugo cahvez... There is just too many other good choices to stoop to that level.
Surely you can think of a better place to buy oil than Evil Mart...I guess after reading back through this I'm gonna just go with the Wally World TCW-3 stuff as well. That stuff is even cheaper than the Polaris Blue stuff.
I've still got a gallon and a quart of the VES-II crap, I guess I can give that to my buddy
Speaking of Hugo - I looked a bottle of Citgo Sea and Snow the other day... It was made in America. At least we are supporting Americans too.
the citgo sea and snow is good stuff too!!
made from us oil in the us, what a concept!!!
made from us oil in the us, what a concept!!!
Lets NOT get confused ( " Castor " & Castrol oil. )
I HOPE know one is getting confused.
Pay CLOSE attention when the word ( " Castor " as in Castor bean oil )
Has NOTHING to do with Castrol Oil, Pay close attention to the " L " and where the " R " is at.
there is NOTHING simlar about these two products.
Castrol Oil mixes great with premix and works great in oil injector systems.
However Castor bean oil will NOT work at all in a snowmobile.
Dan
I HOPE know one is getting confused.
Pay CLOSE attention when the word ( " Castor " as in Castor bean oil )
Has NOTHING to do with Castrol Oil, Pay close attention to the " L " and where the " R " is at.
there is NOTHING simlar about these two products.
Castrol Oil mixes great with premix and works great in oil injector systems.
However Castor bean oil will NOT work at all in a snowmobile.
Dan
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I just had a senior moment. My mother would give me mineral oil if my tummy hurt ... and I'd be crapping with even worse cramps shortly afterward.
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D
deepdiver
Well-known member
I would bet that many of these breakdowns would have happened no matter what oil you had used!
I have run my last two mod sleds on Klotz for over 4500 on one sled and 3200 on the other. No problems whatsoever...when the 800 Skidut was torn down for upgrades it looked like a brand new motor. I never fogged cylinders but did start them about once a month.
I also ran the Klotz in my 99Seadoo XP limited and it was ridden hard and put away wet....had the motor rebuilt after a friend water flooded it and there was no signs of rust or any bearing issues either.
My analogy is this: if you have a cold and drink some Rum and you get better the next day...was it the rum that made the cold better? Probably not but if that happened twice you might be prone to believe it.
I run nothing but syn. oil in my Indian Chief and it gets ridden pretty hard in some real hot temps...rebuilt the motor for performance upgrades this winter and it looked like new inside...32K miles!
Sleds today are much more..."on the edge" in regards to the output per cc than ever before. There are way more people out there riding them harder than ever and with the internet you will have and hear of way more issues than ever before..of course there are going to be more failures as there are more sleds and more people riding the pizz out of them....thers my two cents!
TTT for a great thread
The truth lies somewhere between your post and dans.
GREAT THREAD
for all us peeps to reread before another season
for all us peeps to reread before another season
This Doesent make any sense
I have been thinking about this thread for a couple of days.
One thing I dont seem to understand with the Synthetic vs Petro is the brand differances. Polaris has crank problems period, thats been discussed. But look at Arctic cats, and the newer Ski Doo's. AC has been running there APV synthetic since what like 98ish ? You dont seem to hear about alot of M7-M8 eating cranks running on synthetic ?
Then theres occasions where folks have had great luck with synthetic specificlly VES ?
I just bought two gallons of VES Gold for my new (To Me) 04 800. This thread has me more confused then when I started
Is there something more to this problem then just the oil.
I am not trying to dispute everything Indy has said. He is in a field that afords him the expirence to make a formulated Opinion. That said why would Polaris not make a change, if anyone they too must be aware ? It would only cost them money, bad reputation (like they need anymore of that).
While what has been described makes sense, it seems illogical
It really seems to me this problem is more complicated the just a simple Synthetic Vs Petro.
I have been thinking about this thread for a couple of days.
One thing I dont seem to understand with the Synthetic vs Petro is the brand differances. Polaris has crank problems period, thats been discussed. But look at Arctic cats, and the newer Ski Doo's. AC has been running there APV synthetic since what like 98ish ? You dont seem to hear about alot of M7-M8 eating cranks running on synthetic ?
Then theres occasions where folks have had great luck with synthetic specificlly VES ?
I just bought two gallons of VES Gold for my new (To Me) 04 800. This thread has me more confused then when I started
Is there something more to this problem then just the oil.
I am not trying to dispute everything Indy has said. He is in a field that afords him the expirence to make a formulated Opinion. That said why would Polaris not make a change, if anyone they too must be aware ? It would only cost them money, bad reputation (like they need anymore of that).
While what has been described makes sense, it seems illogical
It really seems to me this problem is more complicated the just a simple Synthetic Vs Petro.
Oil confusion
Hello folks.
I hate to see mass confusion, I know things have gotten alittle wild in injector oil world sense I mentioned I really prefer petroleum base oils verses synthetic.
And when I talked about the warranty on the Torque Master crankshafts.
Lets just say this, Polaris has had mass crankshaft failure on their 800 Big Block. for the most part NON of them are oil related ( so the comparrison to cat ) s not a fair one. The New Cat motor has a great bottom-end designed by qualified Suzuki engineers. where as Polaris has choosen a route of using people that are book smart and field stupid in the crankshaft & crankcase finish product. Polaris has a quality control problem. The 2000 to 2005 800 Big Block is one of the best 800's built to date ( The quality control is what has haunted it )
The warranty on the Torque Master crankshafts is for the most part a PTO - End Warranty ( thats where the Polaris failures have been )
Out of the hundreds of 800's cranks and Crankcase I have done there has been at least 17 - 800 Cases that failed to make the cut for a good core, And at least 12 - 800 cranks that had a frozen bearing in areas other then the PTO - Side we could not remove that rendered the crank junk and could not be used. And there have been welded cranks that could not be used. All that being said I have not called a customer and told him is core was junk ( I hold as close to the line as I can ) That the price you expected to pay when I call was exactly what you thought it was going to be.
And there has not been a warranty claim yet, Feel secure in your purchase of a Torque Master Bottom-end. If there is ever a warranty claim you can be sure that I will do everthing in my power to make sure you don't pay a cent.
So that being said, Run whatever oil makes you feel good.
#1 - Advertising - Believe NON of it.
#2 - Weather - Use a oil that is rated for the temp you operate your toys in. ( In other words ) Don't run your sled oil in your chain saw in the summer time. If you cut wood in the winter then the sled oil is fine.
#3 - And most important ( Use your head ) Common Sense. I am one of those people that if am at the hardware store and I am buying parts for my toilet and there are 3 different brands of the same part ( I am buying the most expensive one ) Only unless a friend or plumber I respect tells me that there is a brand out there thats priced for less and its also better. ( More expensive ) is normally better. But is better really needed all the time.............. Tell me this.........If your installing a mail box and you deside that your going to use a 4 foot diameter solid steel pole and bury it 20 five foot deep and concrete it in, to hold your mail box up............does this really make good sense ???
When it comes to Oil, I run expensive Valvoline Extreme Blue in my Dodge Cummins ( in the winter only ) and I go right back to the cheap sh!t in the summer. Why you ask............. Well
#1 - Cummins designed Extreme Blue for Valvoline for their diesel motors.
#2 - and most important in this comparrison - 15/40 weight Pretrolem base oil has a pour point at sub-zero temps that I am NOT comfortable with. ( in other words ) the oil does not flow fast enough thru the oil pump, or the crank and cam bearings. PERIOD . There is no 5/40 weight petroleum based oil rated for a diesel at minus 20 tha will allow a unplugged in diesel to start safely. This is where the synthetics are magic.
I only piss the money away when I think its needed.
My sleds get Castrol T2, Or Old Cat Green NON synthetic. PERIOD.
Remember this ..........I don't ride when its below zero ( my trucks got a heater ) my sled don't. So pour point means nothing to me in a sled.
If your wondering about how different oils pour in the cold...... Do a test yourself.
I do it all the time, just to see if things are acting the way to ADVERTISERS say they are.
get a pack of Dixie Cups and fill them 1/2 full, put them outside on the coldest day that you will actually ride and after a few hours pour them from cup to cup and see what you see. Try and imagin that oil gravity feeding to your oil pump ( and then your oil pump ) pumping it.
when it comes to 4 strokes ( Imagin this ) Your crankshaft is hollow and oil must be pumpped thru it from one end to the other and in doing so that oil MUIST make it thru .002 thou clearances in each and every bearing ( this is why oil presure is higher ) when the motors cold.
Remember this also - Most 4 strokes get their oiled from one end to the other ( this takes time ) and oil must flow freely for this to happen.
2 strokes normaly get it from many different fittings all at the same time. ( premix is magic ) as long as you understand the efects on jetting and the fuel injection systems of today.
So, That being said - Use your brains alittle now and then. Common sense goes along way ( if you don't feel you have any ) then ask one of your friends that does.
Every now and then we are going to make the wrong dession based on the situation were in.
That is called, .......... - Experience and College don't teach it.
Have a great winter everyone !!!!!
Dan
Hello folks.
I hate to see mass confusion, I know things have gotten alittle wild in injector oil world sense I mentioned I really prefer petroleum base oils verses synthetic.
And when I talked about the warranty on the Torque Master crankshafts.
Lets just say this, Polaris has had mass crankshaft failure on their 800 Big Block. for the most part NON of them are oil related ( so the comparrison to cat ) s not a fair one. The New Cat motor has a great bottom-end designed by qualified Suzuki engineers. where as Polaris has choosen a route of using people that are book smart and field stupid in the crankshaft & crankcase finish product. Polaris has a quality control problem. The 2000 to 2005 800 Big Block is one of the best 800's built to date ( The quality control is what has haunted it )
The warranty on the Torque Master crankshafts is for the most part a PTO - End Warranty ( thats where the Polaris failures have been )
Out of the hundreds of 800's cranks and Crankcase I have done there has been at least 17 - 800 Cases that failed to make the cut for a good core, And at least 12 - 800 cranks that had a frozen bearing in areas other then the PTO - Side we could not remove that rendered the crank junk and could not be used. And there have been welded cranks that could not be used. All that being said I have not called a customer and told him is core was junk ( I hold as close to the line as I can ) That the price you expected to pay when I call was exactly what you thought it was going to be.
And there has not been a warranty claim yet, Feel secure in your purchase of a Torque Master Bottom-end. If there is ever a warranty claim you can be sure that I will do everthing in my power to make sure you don't pay a cent.
So that being said, Run whatever oil makes you feel good.
#1 - Advertising - Believe NON of it.
#2 - Weather - Use a oil that is rated for the temp you operate your toys in. ( In other words ) Don't run your sled oil in your chain saw in the summer time. If you cut wood in the winter then the sled oil is fine.
#3 - And most important ( Use your head ) Common Sense. I am one of those people that if am at the hardware store and I am buying parts for my toilet and there are 3 different brands of the same part ( I am buying the most expensive one ) Only unless a friend or plumber I respect tells me that there is a brand out there thats priced for less and its also better. ( More expensive ) is normally better. But is better really needed all the time.............. Tell me this.........If your installing a mail box and you deside that your going to use a 4 foot diameter solid steel pole and bury it 20 five foot deep and concrete it in, to hold your mail box up............does this really make good sense ???
When it comes to Oil, I run expensive Valvoline Extreme Blue in my Dodge Cummins ( in the winter only ) and I go right back to the cheap sh!t in the summer. Why you ask............. Well
#1 - Cummins designed Extreme Blue for Valvoline for their diesel motors.
#2 - and most important in this comparrison - 15/40 weight Pretrolem base oil has a pour point at sub-zero temps that I am NOT comfortable with. ( in other words ) the oil does not flow fast enough thru the oil pump, or the crank and cam bearings. PERIOD . There is no 5/40 weight petroleum based oil rated for a diesel at minus 20 tha will allow a unplugged in diesel to start safely. This is where the synthetics are magic.
I only piss the money away when I think its needed.
My sleds get Castrol T2, Or Old Cat Green NON synthetic. PERIOD.
Remember this ..........I don't ride when its below zero ( my trucks got a heater ) my sled don't. So pour point means nothing to me in a sled.
If your wondering about how different oils pour in the cold...... Do a test yourself.
I do it all the time, just to see if things are acting the way to ADVERTISERS say they are.
get a pack of Dixie Cups and fill them 1/2 full, put them outside on the coldest day that you will actually ride and after a few hours pour them from cup to cup and see what you see. Try and imagin that oil gravity feeding to your oil pump ( and then your oil pump ) pumping it.
when it comes to 4 strokes ( Imagin this ) Your crankshaft is hollow and oil must be pumpped thru it from one end to the other and in doing so that oil MUIST make it thru .002 thou clearances in each and every bearing ( this is why oil presure is higher ) when the motors cold.
Remember this also - Most 4 strokes get their oiled from one end to the other ( this takes time ) and oil must flow freely for this to happen.
2 strokes normaly get it from many different fittings all at the same time. ( premix is magic ) as long as you understand the efects on jetting and the fuel injection systems of today.
So, That being said - Use your brains alittle now and then. Common sense goes along way ( if you don't feel you have any ) then ask one of your friends that does.
Every now and then we are going to make the wrong dession based on the situation were in.
That is called, .......... - Experience and College don't teach it.
Have a great winter everyone !!!!!
Dan
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Dan,
I mostly drank in college....
I mostly drank in college....
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