Carbed 2 stroke turbo guy's !!!

[zrt1]

Gus i have a quick question about tucking the clutch weights on a cat 9 tower. about how much to start do you take off of the heel? i like the way it shifts and pulls but it could use just a bit more engagement. also when you tuck the weight do you have to reshim the spider? thanks

 

[papafinger1]

I had some 1/2" washers that had oversized holes (.562) that were just the right size od. Pulled the springs, put the washers between the housing and bellow, over the valve. Hard to explain where, but if you take it apart its obvious where you need the spacer. The washers are just used as a spacer because they were the perfect size and sitting right there.

Yes its super simple to change it back. I could do it on the mountain in about 5 minutes.

Do it, all they are doing is hampering the turbo. I don't know any difference at all in the low end, before boost.

I will have some time tomorrow to work on it. I will try it and do some testing. I am excited to see what changes it will make. Thanks for the info.

 

[papafinger1]

any other small suggestions? I have got it pullin pretty hard and runnin solid but can't help but feel that I am still leavin some ponies un-tapped.

 

[devilrmk]

Not sure what you have for guages but I have noticed a huge gain getting the jetting right. I don't use any egt or A/F guages but I can tell big time when I got it jetted right. It makes such a big difference, much more than it ever did before turbo. I bet I am making 20 more horses when its jetted right compared to when it just starts to clean up but still rich.

I am still a long ways from optimized on clutching and I haven't really messed with that yet so I can't be of any help there.

 

[papafinger1]

Not sure what you have for guages but I have noticed a huge gain getting the jetting right. I don't use any egt or A/F guages but I can tell big time when I got it jetted right. It makes such a big difference, much more than it ever did before turbo. I bet I am making 20 more horses when its jetted right compared to when it just starts to clean up but still rich.

I am still a long ways from optimized on clutching and I haven't really messed with that yet so I can't be of any help there.

I am running egt's and an 02 sensor with a/f gauge. Sometimes I feel the 02 gauge is a little off. Right now I am reading 13.4 on the gauge which is definately lean but the plugs show just a hair lean and runnin sharp. I feel the clutching is close but room to gain. Although we could chase our tail for a long time on clutching trying to squeeze every last morsel of hp out of the beast. I will be as happy creating a turn key boosted sled that runs good day in and day out.
I will washer the valves in a few hrs and report back what I find.

Tackling all the parameters together is definately easier than doing them alone.


wes

 

[gus bohne]

o2 on carbed sleds is slow to react and read clear .
they get loaded in part throttle low rpm use, then after you hit the handlebar for 3 -5 seconds its hot enough and burned off clean ENOUGH to read SOMEWHAT correctly..
Too slow, too late.
EGT is Ahhhh,, useless as tits on a bull.. again to slow,, too late to save you from anything..

13 or over is way to lean.
stay in the high 11's to mid 12's, check the plugs and wash,, NOT just the plugs, can't see light deto on the plugs till its ALREADY melted OFF the piston.

remove the rave , look in the rave slot, you can view the piston edge and determine the REAL state of tune in miuntes. ( 2 bolts ) !!!

for all you boon docking guys,
use early arm mass, less tip mass, straight cam or reversed, and shell be better on off throttle//

Gus

zrt1, test test test.sorry its the best I can do, tucking will take some testing till you get it right, noone can tell you exactly what it will take, just keep tring and turn the mig on . you can always weld it back if you go to far.

 

[papafinger1]

Thanks gus. I know it is too lean and will richen it up. With powerjets is there any reason to change pilots at all? I haven't touched them and it seems to run well?

Also ever since the install I have had issues keeping the sled cool. It doesn't get warm once in snow but running the trail to get to the pow she heats up. I am running the stock heat exchanger will scratchers and am wondering if it just isn't enough. Is anyone else seeing this problem at all? I am running uridium plugs which will run hotter. Did this so I can run on the fat side and still have the performance. I am building ucoolers for the tunnel in hopes that this will remedy my issues. What do you fellas think? Will it work? Is there a deeper issue that I need to be concerned with?

 

[gus bohne]

more power more heat. anyone who does not look at increasing cooling capacity is leaving themselves open to trouble.

If you use the cooling sytem to ( cool) for lack of the correct word the turbo thats another issue all together.. DONT DO IT. two strokes do not get the turbo hot enough to warrant the need for coolant flow.

4 strokes need 800 degrees in the turbo to create boost, we don't..

Ideally, coolant would flow thru the turbo, THEN to the exchangers, back thru then engine and LASTLY thru the turbo on its way OUT to the exchangers.

This would be the method to least effect the engine operating temps.

Gus

 

[devilrmk]

more power more heat. anyone who does not look at increasing cooling capacity is leaving themselves open to trouble.

If you use the cooling sytem to ( cool) for lack of the correct word the turbo thats another issue all together.. DONT DO IT. two strokes do not get the turbo hot enough to warrant the need for coolant flow.

4 strokes need 800 degrees in the turbo to create boost, we don't..

Ideally, coolant would flow thru the turbo, THEN to the exchangers, back thru then engine and LASTLY thru the turbo on its way OUT to the exchangers.

This would be the method to least effect the engine operating temps.

Gus

This is how I have mine setup, its the last thing to get coolant before it hits the exchangers.
It gets warm on the trail without my scratchers, with the scratchers it drops right down to 120 immediately. This is stock cooling on mine. Figured on putting on a U-cooler we will see if I need it.

 

[papafinger1]

more power more heat. anyone who does not look at increasing cooling capacity is leaving themselves open to trouble.

If you use the cooling sytem to ( cool) for lack of the correct word the turbo thats another issue all together.. DONT DO IT. two strokes do not get the turbo hot enough to warrant the need for coolant flow.

4 strokes need 800 degrees in the turbo to create boost, we don't..

Ideally, coolant would flow thru the turbo, THEN to the exchangers, back thru then engine and LASTLY thru the turbo on its way OUT to the exchangers.

This would be the method to least effect the engine operating temps.

Gus

I am running an aero set-up. Not sure how I can run coolant thru the turbo. Will increasing coolant capacity help me or am I wasting my time and money?

 

[gus bohne]

add cooling extrusions. to keep max temp below 160 and your good to go.

Read above DO NOT DO IT. means do not cool the turbo on a 2 stroke, not needed ..

Gus

 

[papafinger1]

add cooling extrusions. to keep max temp below 160 and your good to go.

Read above DO NOT DO IT. means do not cool the turbo on a 2 stroke, not needed ..

Gus

O.K. I am a moron. I am not understanding the cooling extrusions. I have vents on the hood, turbo, and clutch sides. Other than that everything else is stock. What is my next step to cool this bad boy down. To be honest I am not sure what my engine temps are but I do now that I run hot egt readings from the y-pipe. On the trail excess of 1280 degrees. You are all so full of knowledge that I feel like a kindergartener talking to a college professor. Learn me fellas. haha

 

[gus bohne]

you are too ****in funny..

tunnel cooler . ie extrusions of aluminum alloy that allow passage of liquid coolant to exchange btu enregy with cold snow on outer surface !!!


egt's at part throttle are usless.. use the plugs luke !!! ( or the force )..lol
Coolant emp is what we are refering too

you guys are to much man.. thanks for keeping me laughin./

Gus

 

[jcrjet]

Power jets

Hey Gus,
I know its here somewhere but couldn't find it.
Anyhow I have a aero53 turbo doc setup 2007 600 rmk. What's the best way to set the fuel flow at altitude in the parking lot. I have a power jet on each carb and a jet on the turbo I believe goes to the charge air. As I understand it, the turbo jet is for low and mid, the carb powerjets for the high end. This thing is ultra rich, it runs OK, scares the crap outta me but I am too skittish on leaning because I don't want to burn it.

 

[papafinger1]

you are too ****in funny..

tunnel cooler . ie extrusions of aluminum alloy that allow passage of liquid coolant to exchange btu enregy with cold snow on outer surface !!!


egt's at part throttle are usless.. use the plugs luke !!! ( or the force )..lol
Coolant emp is what we are refering too

you guys are to much man.. thanks for keeping me laughin./

Gus

Thank you. At least I am good for something even though it is only amusement. Cooler, that is what I thought and is being built. How do you go about checking your coolant temp while runnin down the trail. Do you stop, blow the top, and insert thermometer? If so I will be bringin my rubber gloves and suit with next ride. Thanks for all the help.

One other thing. What am I looking for in a good piston wash? I am going to do some more testing tomorrow and any info would be helpful. Plugs I can read but am new to the piston wash terminology. Remember when talkin to me to keep it clear and simple. Am I smarter than a fifth grader? I think not!

 

[devilrmk]

Lean them out until it just cleans up. On mine, about a half turn farther and its rockin.

I don't use a charge tube jet, just carbs. I open mine up a turn or so before I start. I turn them down until I just get it boosting, too rich and it won't even boost. Mine will blubber a bit and then boost and clean up. Once I hit that point I go 1/4 turn farther and it will run clean all the way through. I run the trail that way when I get to where I play, I will lean it out another 1/4 turn and it runs great.

 

[devilrmk]

Thank you. At least I am good for something even though it is only amusement. Cooler, that is what I thought and is being built. How do you go about checking your coolant temp while runnin down the trail. Do you stop, blow the top, and insert thermometer? If so I will be bringin my rubber gloves and suit with next ride. Thanks for all the help.

One other thing. What am I looking for in a good piston wash? I am going to do some more testing tomorrow and any info would be helpful. Plugs I can read but am new to the piston wash terminology. Remember when talkin to me to keep it clear and simple. Am I smarter than a fifth grader? I think not!

Thumbnail sized clean spot on the edge of the piston coming from the transfer ports. The bigger the clean spot the richer your jetting, the smaller the clean spot the leaner you are.

 

[DWHalverson]

So true, so true. I wont even recommend AFR gauges anymore on my kits. From what I have seen--------ABSOLUTELY WORTHLESS!!

Still have to stick with my EGT's based off of very carefull and consistant obsevation of piston wash to know what numbers I need. Not running on the ragged edge though.

Dave

o2 on carbed sleds is slow to react and read clear .
they get loaded in part throttle low rpm use, then after you hit the handlebar for 3 -5 seconds its hot enough and burned off clean ENOUGH to read SOMEWHAT correctly..
Too slow, too late.
EGT is Ahhhh,, useless as tits on a bull.. again to slow,, too late to save you from anything..

13 or over is way to lean.
stay in the high 11's to mid 12's, check the plugs and wash,, NOT just the plugs, can't see light deto on the plugs till its ALREADY melted OFF the piston.

remove the rave , look in the rave slot, you can view the piston edge and determine the REAL state of tune in miuntes. ( 2 bolts ) !!!

for all you boon docking guys,
use early arm mass, less tip mass, straight cam or reversed, and shell be better on off throttle//

Gus

zrt1, test test test.sorry its the best I can do, tucking will take some testing till you get it right, noone can tell you exactly what it will take, just keep tring and turn the mig on . you can always weld it back if you go to far.

 

[papafinger1]

I had some 1/2" washers that had oversized holes (.562) that were just the right size od. Pulled the springs, put the washers between the housing and bellow, over the valve. Hard to explain where, but if you take it apart its obvious where you need the spacer. The washers are just used as a spacer because they were the perfect size and sitting right there.

Yes its super simple to change it back. I could do it on the mountain in about 5 minutes.

Do it, all they are doing is hampering the turbo. I don't know any difference at all in the low end, before boost.

Alright I did this and made some test runs today. Boost engages earlier and is quite a bit smoother thru the powerband. It doesn't hit so hard and throw ya back. Start starts easy and keeps pullin. So smooth in fact that my mind may be playing tricks on me cuz I can't help feeling that there is less power than before. I am sure it is from the lack of jerk that it had before. I might just switch it back, take a few laps, and then reinstall the washers to prove myself wrong. I certainly do like the earlier engagement as well as the smooth power. I have a pretty good feeling that it will help with boondocking. Thanks for the tip devil...

 

[devilrmk]

Alright I did this and made some test runs today. Boost engages earlier and is quite a bit smoother thru the powerband. It doesn't hit so hard and throw ya back. Start starts easy and keeps pullin. So smooth in fact that my mind may be playing tricks on me cuz I can't help feeling that there is less power than before. I am sure it is from the lack of jerk that it had before. I might just switch it back, take a few laps, and then reinstall the washers to prove myself wrong. I certainly do like the earlier engagement as well as the smooth power. I have a pretty good feeling that it will help with boondocking. Thanks for the tip devil...

Thats exactly how mine is. I think its your mind, I felt the same way until I made a few climbs.