You should watch what you wish for ---
Do you know who the largest owner of Cat shares is??
Give you a hint ...... they're the only engine supplier that Cat will ever have as long as they continue to have this investment.
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Buying American Made save your future
- Thread starter Skidooer
- Start date
You should watch what you wish for ---
Do you know who the largest owner of Cat shares is??
Give you a hint ...... they're the only engine supplier that Cat will ever have as long as they continue to have this investment.
Suzuki at around 35%!! What do I win?!?
S
Slick
Well-known member
You see, thats sometimes the problem with education. It can get sorta cloudy if the info supplier has an agenda. I believe you're pretty close on your 3 % wage estimate, its the unrealistic benefits, unreasonable perks and the entitlement mindset regarding what should be expected from each member during each hour of PRODUCTIVITY, a word not much talked about during negotiations, LOL. Thats cause the workers have rights, and the pendulum has swung to that side and stayed their, but its started to swing back. I agree totally on the salary and bonus abuse and and poor management thats been rampant in some industries. A major problem though is the shareholders and CEO,s can weed out and get rid of substandard managers eventually, and unfortunately usually with a buyout, but the unions will continue to protect a member regardless of how poor his or her performance is, even if its shown to be chronic.
remember you vote with your dollars. if you are buying american just to be buying american then you are telling the companys you buy from that their product is okay. once they get that message they will continue to build crap because it sells. the most patriotic thing you can do for you country is to buy the best value for your dollar reguardless of where its made. when a company gets the message that they aren't measuring up they will either change or go broke (at least thats the way it should be.)if the unions were delivering a good product at a fair price they would have nothing to worry about. problem is there are a lot of good people in unions but a small amount of power hungrey buttheads at the top. buy the best value, send a message of what you want, don't support crap or mediorcrity
1. Reduce, reuse, recycle.
2. Buy from the most local supplier you can. That is avoid big box stores and internet sales as much as posible. All politics are local. Support your local businesses and you will support your local economy. We will never be able to always buy "North American" so atleast keep as many of your dollars in your local community by buying from the business people that will be there to take care of you.
3. Don't buy if you don't have the money. Not to say that using borrowed money is always bad, but keep it manageable.
4. Buy a house. Start gaining equity and leverage it when needed.
5. 1 - 4 is the real "Buy American" ideology.
2. Buy from the most local supplier you can. That is avoid big box stores and internet sales as much as posible. All politics are local. Support your local businesses and you will support your local economy. We will never be able to always buy "North American" so atleast keep as many of your dollars in your local community by buying from the business people that will be there to take care of you.
3. Don't buy if you don't have the money. Not to say that using borrowed money is always bad, but keep it manageable.
4. Buy a house. Start gaining equity and leverage it when needed.
5. 1 - 4 is the real "Buy American" ideology.
i would really like to see someone and actually show me that it is 3% (or 7% depending on who is telling the tale) of the price.. until then I call Bullsh*t!
It might be that much at the factory level.. factor in the downstream costs of labour in the manufacturing of parts, etc. and the upstream costs of the dealership labour and I bet the story changes a whole bunch..
The petroleum companies don't really care if you use gas or not. They have positioned themselves quite nicely. Regardless of the product, they have the infrastructure to get you from point A to B. Something that NO body else will ever be able to do. The only way to overcome that is to have the vehicles self sustaining or have the capacity to get from point A - B - A again..
It might be that much at the factory level.. factor in the downstream costs of labour in the manufacturing of parts, etc. and the upstream costs of the dealership labour and I bet the story changes a whole bunch..
The petroleum companies don't really care if you use gas or not. They have positioned themselves quite nicely. Regardless of the product, they have the infrastructure to get you from point A to B. Something that NO body else will ever be able to do. The only way to overcome that is to have the vehicles self sustaining or have the capacity to get from point A - B - A again..
On a prior thread we ran some estimated numbers on Fords union dues. I believe the employees paid somewhere in the vicinity of 800million last year. Don't really care what percentage that is, it's a lot of money.
The problem isn't going to be cured by Americans buying American. We need Americans to build quality innovative products. We import import import because other countries build things we want. Yet our export numbers are very low in comparison. Why, because we don't build a product desirable to other countries. Nobody wants to pay more for less including us.
Lets look at Klim for example. For starters, how much more would you be willing to pay to have it produced in America? Not to mention the requirements that are needed for a factory to even assemble Gore-Tex are almost non existent in America. Again, a quality issue.
I am constantly slapped in the face with safety gear standards. For some reason we are convinced our standards are the way it has to be. While other countries (much like the auto industry) continue to advance. I see stuff being used overseas that is 5-10 years ahead of what we have. Body armor that has next to no bulk, yet protects better. Helmets that weight half as much yet protect better.
We need to get smarter and start giving a crap about what we are doing. Sorry, just my thoughts on that. Just my opinion and nothing more.
The problem isn't going to be cured by Americans buying American. We need Americans to build quality innovative products. We import import import because other countries build things we want. Yet our export numbers are very low in comparison. Why, because we don't build a product desirable to other countries. Nobody wants to pay more for less including us.
Lets look at Klim for example. For starters, how much more would you be willing to pay to have it produced in America? Not to mention the requirements that are needed for a factory to even assemble Gore-Tex are almost non existent in America. Again, a quality issue.
I am constantly slapped in the face with safety gear standards. For some reason we are convinced our standards are the way it has to be. While other countries (much like the auto industry) continue to advance. I see stuff being used overseas that is 5-10 years ahead of what we have. Body armor that has next to no bulk, yet protects better. Helmets that weight half as much yet protect better.
We need to get smarter and start giving a crap about what we are doing. Sorry, just my thoughts on that. Just my opinion and nothing more.
A
Adrenaline Revolution
Well-known member
I'm not sure about the cost of labor in an American Car being 3% but I'll bet it's not that far off.
I am in a Union also and I can tell you that our labor cost that goes into the product we, (actual hands on the product) assemble is 4 to 5% of the total cost of the product and Slick, that always includes benefits and wages combined.
That is the way it's figured.
Our workforce was asked to go "Lean" and over a period of 3 to 4 years we, as a workforce did just that and brought our cost from 7% to the 4 to 5% that it is today.
That was huge.
Oh, BTW we now do with just 26,000 members what we used to do with 64,000 people just 15 years ago.
Yes, we do a lot of things more efficiently but mostly it's because all those jobs were shipped overseas.
The ONLY reason they dont ship them ALL overseas is BECAUSE of the Union so don't sit there behind your keyboard making judgements on Unions and how evil they are when they save thousands of jobs and American workers every year.
And none of us vote how we're asked to vote by the Union Leadership.
We vote for who we want. WTH ? Do you think we're puppets?
I am in a Union also and I can tell you that our labor cost that goes into the product we, (actual hands on the product) assemble is 4 to 5% of the total cost of the product and Slick, that always includes benefits and wages combined.
That is the way it's figured.
Our workforce was asked to go "Lean" and over a period of 3 to 4 years we, as a workforce did just that and brought our cost from 7% to the 4 to 5% that it is today.
That was huge.
Oh, BTW we now do with just 26,000 members what we used to do with 64,000 people just 15 years ago.
Yes, we do a lot of things more efficiently but mostly it's because all those jobs were shipped overseas.
The ONLY reason they dont ship them ALL overseas is BECAUSE of the Union so don't sit there behind your keyboard making judgements on Unions and how evil they are when they save thousands of jobs and American workers every year.
And none of us vote how we're asked to vote by the Union Leadership.
We vote for who we want. WTH ? Do you think we're puppets?
AR,
I am not bashing ALL unions but I will bash the UAW all day! Unions are an inportant part of North American companys period.
The 3% or 7% or whatever is total BS, who cares. Tell me, what percent of a Fords cost equates to the CEO flying home to Seattle every weekend JUST to please his bit(h wife. Is that ok becase it's just a small percentage? Or insane CEO pay, what percent does that equate to?
I also don't think anyone said anything about how union MEMBERS vote, although I would guarnetee it's WAY left wing and socialist. It's all about where your union LEADERS spend YOUR lobby money. And yes, you support it indirectly with your union dues. It's kinda like putting money in the basket at church, do you know where it's going? Are you feeding the hungry or lining the pocket of some selfish rich priest, paster, ect, or worse.
As far as your arguement that unions help to keep businesses in North America, please elaborate, I could easily make a counter arguement.
As you know, Boeing is going to be outta here sooner than later, I'll bet my life on it. Is it because Washington state is a crappy place to do business? Is it because the unions go on strike every 4 years no matter what shape the economy is in. Or, is it because Airbus is built in a socialist country that give tax payer money to Airbus to under cut the competition? Or is it "D" All of the above?
Without unions we would have no barr set for employee benifits, pay and rights, so they serve a huge purpose and are extreemly impotant. The problem is knowing when to draw the line. Your union did what the UAW wouldn't to cut costs, although maybe too late.
Do you think some high school drop out should be making $150,000 a year in pay and benifits on an assembly line because the union says they're entitled to that pay under union rules. The competition over seas thinks it's great that we are that stupid.
For me it's not really just about cost and quality, all though that is huge. It's more about agenda. I mean no disrespect to you or your family, it's just my opinion. Eric
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This is a great conversation and it's good to hear from someone directly involved in the union. I just want to add some thought here. Play a little devils advocate in a friendly sort of way.
I'm just going to guess your union dues are around $2400/yr. With 26,000 members this would come out to $62,400,000 a year. What is the union doing with this amount to ensure you have a job? Again, I'm not trying to start argument or belittle anyone's position, but most of the country feels you should be without a job anyway. Not that we want to see anyone jobless in this country. I'm just trying to say that through poor leadership or something that the auto companies would seemingly be out of business. The union certainly isn't helping the situation. And now it would seem that everyone is going to have to pay to ensure that auto employees will stay employed. Again, I'm not bashing you or the union. We are all Americans and I don't wish poor fortune on anyone. Just wondering if you or anyone could shed some more light.
It is my feeling that in consideration/comparison to the rest of the world that we possibly make too much money. Now don't take that the wrong way either. The cost of goods etc dictates that we must make that amount. However, this should have been looked at over 20 years ago. The government should have had all kinds of bells whistles and sirens going off when companies were finding it more cost effective to outsource, buy materials, assemble and ship clear across the ocean than to manufacture product right in their own backyard. Granted there are some standards that exist here that don't in other countries. Child labor, poor work conditions etc.. But to say this isn't a problem would be foolish.
Just some more thought.
for everyone that we may come out of this with our retirements intact.This is a great conversation and it's good to hear from someone directly involved in the union. I just want to add some thought here. Play a little devils advocate in a friendly sort of way.
I'm just going to guess your union dues are around $2400/yr. With 26,000 members this would come out to $62,400,000 a year. What is the union doing with this amount to ensure you have a job? Again, I'm not trying to start argument or belittle anyone's position, but most of the country feels you should be without a job anyway. Not that we want to see anyone jobless in this country. I'm just trying to say that through poor leadership or something that the auto companies would seemingly be out of business. The union certainly isn't helping the situation. And now it would seem that everyone is going to have to pay to ensure that auto employees will stay employed. Again, I'm not bashing you or the union. We are all Americans and I don't wish poor fortune on anyone. Just wondering if you or anyone could shed some more light.
It is my feeling that in consideration/comparison to the rest of the world that we possibly make too much money. Now don't take that the wrong way either. The cost of goods etc dictates that we must make that amount. However, this should have been looked at over 20 years ago. The government should have had all kinds of bells whistles and sirens going off when companies were finding it more cost effective to outsource, buy materials, assemble and ship clear across the ocean than to manufacture product right in their own backyard. Granted there are some standards that exist here that don't in other countries. Child labor, poor work conditions etc.. But to say this isn't a problem would be foolish.
Just some more thought.
Great post!
Why do people seem to think they are the only ones that should make a descent living?
Everyone loves to blame the unions, bet they are a large reason why the average blue collar white man can make a descent living with out going to school.
You know what happens without unions, companies hire cheap labor and you guys get your favorite mexican labor...
Seems eventually we are just going to become a nation of sales people.. Guess those are the only jobs that mean anything anymore..
All bow down to the dollar...
Everyone loves to blame the unions, bet they are a large reason why the average blue collar white man can make a descent living with out going to school.
You know what happens without unions, companies hire cheap labor and you guys get your favorite mexican labor...
Seems eventually we are just going to become a nation of sales people.. Guess those are the only jobs that mean anything anymore..
All bow down to the dollar...
As stated earlier in this thread, I work for the UAW (Ford). I pay around $650.00 per year in union dues. I know that it is very hard for people on this site to understand the situation the Big Three have gotten them self into. Ever since 2001 the UAW has done nothing but give up cost saving concessions to the leadership that has driven these companies into the ground. 4 year contracts are constantly being reopened and renegotiated every 6 months to a year, to help better position each company to return to profitability. The only ones that have given up anything is the middle class workers of US and Canada.
The thing that bothers me the most about this thread is that, here in Michigan there are more registered snowmobiles than any other state in this country. A large portion of those that I work with not only have a snowmobile, but also give money to help support our sport. Being a state that is OVERLY reliant on manufacturing, most get their income from assembling or selling American manufactured products. Why does that matter? Because a large majority of those who support our sport rely the decisions you make in the showroom. How many dollars do you think make it back to the snowmobiling industry when you purchased that shiny new Toyota Tundra? Just another view.
The thing that bothers me the most about this thread is that, here in Michigan there are more registered snowmobiles than any other state in this country. A large portion of those that I work with not only have a snowmobile, but also give money to help support our sport. Being a state that is OVERLY reliant on manufacturing, most get their income from assembling or selling American manufactured products. Why does that matter? Because a large majority of those who support our sport rely the decisions you make in the showroom. How many dollars do you think make it back to the snowmobiling industry when you purchased that shiny new Toyota Tundra? Just another view.
R
Rob1334
ACCOUNT CLOSED
Very interesting post, I agree on some points.
Question for you though, and not trying to be a di(k but just pointing out another fact. Aren't all Toyota Tundra's made in either Princeton, Indiana or San Antonio, Texas? (Possiblly just SA, Texas now I think.)
As I have bought American made vehicles before, pulling the plasitc panels off my Chrysler turned out to be a rebadged Mitsubishi, so if the parts are still being made in foreign countries but assembled here, what does the actual Brand name mean anymore?
Question for you though, and not trying to be a di(k but just pointing out another fact. Aren't all Toyota Tundra's made in either Princeton, Indiana or San Antonio, Texas? (Possiblly just SA, Texas now I think.)
As I have bought American made vehicles before, pulling the plasitc panels off my Chrysler turned out to be a rebadged Mitsubishi, so if the parts are still being made in foreign countries but assembled here, what does the actual Brand name mean anymore?
Right on Ruffy thanks for chiming in, now I know I'm right. LOL
Everyone has the right to earn a descent living but no one should be ENTITLED.
BTW - I drive a Have a Dodge and a Nissan and my wife works in a union. Peace brother - Eric
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You are just playing a semantics game to make your argument feel better..... make / earn... whatever..
Wait, you don't make any money do you?
You EARN it.... blah...
Guess I should have maybe said
"Why do people seem to think that they are the only ones that are entitled to make a descent living?"
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You're right, I don't make any money and why should I? I live in Seattle and so does Bill Gates, I use the internet and windows, I should be entitled to some of his money to feed my family.
