Burning Alpine Sleds!!!

[smwizzz]

Awesome!!!

I will definately talk to ya if im ever headed your way...if your ever up here in the summer i will take ya sailing...there ain;t no horsepower like a sail full of wind...!!!...My son has a buddy working in Fort Mac..My son lives in Edmonton and one in Smithers..C.N. rail guys...they should be buying me that boat of yours...lol...they have that bathtub race up here from Whitehorse to Dawson...on the Yukon River...about 400 miles...now you should build a boat for that...lol..

if ya go to my profile i have a few sailboating pics in my album "summer fun "...i live on a lake 22 miles long and then it joins up to other systems through a six mile river for another 50 miles of lakes..the Yukon River flows out on end of.."my lake"..lol..

I will check it out for sure!!! Smithers.... go north to Dease lake, turn left and head to Telegraph creek and you are almost at my lodge on the Stikine river!!!


You have all bases covered!!!

 

[smwizzz]

Stinkin hot!!!

Wow what a week!!! We were at the Rocky Mountain Nationals on the weekend. It was hot!!! I came home sunday to mid 30's. It's been raining so it is humid. These are the days that make me wish it was winter already. Still, I haven't had enough summer yet... boats, bikes, jeeps and... well ya... warm weather. I haven't even looked at finishing my crispy fried Yammy and I won't see my new Po until fall. I guess winter will have to wait a little longer.....

 

[smwizzz]

Review!!!

Crazy!!! I reviewed my thread tonight... I have to say I am not ashamed of my posts. I still feel anxiety towards Alpine. I am also very proud of my little rig.

Alpine p'd in my cornflakes and I am going to keep this tread rolling for certain throughout the early sled sales season. I am sure that some of the BC dealerships will appreciate this. I can also say it will make me happy. I hope to crush some of the sales they may have otherwise had.

I have grown up with peeps who didn't like me. I have survived to date. I have had dudes try to beat me up and worse. I have survived. I learned to look over my shoulder many years ago. I don't endorse being outside the norm, however I do endorse doing what you feel is right. I stand up for me, the underdog and the little guy!!! I don't really care if I fit in. I could care less if I meet your approval. If you wish to threaten me you better back it up. I don't look for a fight but I don't recall the last time I actually backed down. I don't remember winning every fight, but I do know those who tangled with me will never forget me.

This is just me. I have some awesome!!! friends!!! I have a few peeps I don't like and don't like me. Personnal differences. Right is right!!! Good is good!!! Wrong is wrong!!! I don't need to argue. The boys at Alpine do not like me and I have no problem standing up and saying they Su@#!!! I made my opinion last season. I have yet to be challenged by Julien or Dean. I will be at future sled shows. I guess time will tell. Ignorance is bliss!!! Mind your tongue!!! A few sayings that allow peeps to back down quietly. I offered a simple offer... Appologise and this thread will fade away... . I am still waiting. My word is good... Is theirs?

 

[smwizzz]

On the lighter side

So I have run my little boat numerous times. I have made changes to the hull. We have found some of the small things that make boats act the way they act. I am 2 weeks away from the second hull. My bud wants this one and it is going to be basically in true form bolt in your own guts and go form.

The second generation will incorporate less water spray and very similar handling. Once this happens I am going to pursue certification. My plan is to get the certs done if reasonable and move onto a 1 to 2 foot longer version. This will make larger rapids and whitewater safer and bigger motors like the 4 strokers more feasible to install. I don't know the limitations of hp, but the 85 hp I am running is plenty.

I believe that once I have the hull perfected I will push the limitations of HP further. I think 120 will be close to the magic number. I am positive the 150 + range will end up being tested. It is my experience that most hulls have limitations and that include HP. Chine walking and side skipping are obvious signs of pushing limitations.

Once the second/third (I think we may actually build two) are complete we should have a very good time frame for costing purposes. I am sure after they are complete we should also know how a boat construction works. We have made some drastic and some less drastic changes in this hull. I have only one change left to make. Once it is made, I have limited time until the next build to had a little fun with this one. I look forward to the next build.

Hopefully the certification process is somewhat painless. I am not convinced of this... just dreaming!!! Still it is a concept that keeps me rolling.

Cheers....

Keep ya filled in!!!!

 

[smwizzz]

Oops...

So I said I wouldn't be posting any more pics of the boat. Well I wasn't going to... but, I just modified a reverse gate assembly to fit my little rig. It turned out pretty well. I have yet to test it. I think it should work just fine. I did have to cut the corners of the bucket off so I don't know how well it will steer. I also had to cut a notch for the trim cable and lever. I think it may spray some water out back but I guess if it stays away from me and the inside of the boat it really doesn't matter. I guess it would have been helpful to have the bucket first and design the swim platform/pump guard to make a little more room. Next one I guess!!!

 

[Matte Murder]

This is not a post based on experience so take it for what it is worth. Just like you think Alpine hosed you on the sled deal(which seems like a real safety issue) try and look ahead and spot safety issues with your boat. It might pass certs and still have safety issues. I would expect once you sell a few of these the crazies will get their hands on them and do things that they weren't designed to do. One thing I was wondering about is what you could do for a shock absorbing seat. If a guy hit a rock an inch under the surface at 50-60 mph it would compress his spine terribly. If there was nothing to absorb or crush under his butt his spine will come under severe compression. You don't have your legs under you or any kind of suspension. I would also suspect guys will jump these boats(what don't people jump these days) and the same issue will be there. Also, is there anything to get hung up on if the boat goes under or gets sucked into a hole. Seems like you would want it to be really easy to float out of the boat if it goes under right side up. Just stuff like that to try and anticipate.

 

[smwizzz]

Agreed.

This is not a post based on experience so take it for what it is worth. Just like you think Alpine hosed you on the sled deal(which seems like a real safety issue) try and look ahead and spot safety issues with your boat. It might pass certs and still have safety issues. I would expect once you sell a few of these the crazies will get their hands on them and do things that they weren't designed to do. One thing I was wondering about is what you could do for a shock absorbing seat. If a guy hit a rock an inch under the surface at 50-60 mph it would compress his spine terribly. If there was nothing to absorb or crush under his butt his spine will come under severe compression. You don't have your legs under you or any kind of suspension. I would also suspect guys will jump these boats(what don't people jump these days) and the same issue will be there. Also, is there anything to get hung up on if the boat goes under or gets sucked into a hole. Seems like you would want it to be really easy to float out of the boat if it goes under right side up. Just stuff like that to try and anticipate.

We have thought about these things. That is precisely the reason I wish to do a certification. If it meets or exceeds coast guard requirements then whatever someone may add that destroys the rating is up to them. I do not have any intention of installing motors, pumps, fuel cells or electronics. The hull ratings generally include weight ratings, horsepower maximums etc. Obviously one would have to carry insurance policies to protect themselves from possible failures or problems. I would also think a weld procedure would have to be developed and followed by one who is properly qualified in welding. I am also certain the hull would have to be formally inspected and records kept on file. I have given this a lot of thought. Most of these procedures are a normal part of my daily business activities. I am sure that we will need to make a few additions or changes to make this happen.

And who knows.... maybe it is not even feasible to pursue once we find out the legal requirements. One thing for certain, I will not be building them out of my backyard.

Thanks for your insight, all help and concerns are welcomed!!!

 

[Matte Murder]

I sent a buddy of mine a link to your thread a while ago. He has a large river running jet sled and is really aggressive driving that thing. He ordered some plans from a guy in NZ and is having a local welder/fab guy build him an 11' hull. I might end up with something like this so I have been on youtube watching guys run rivers in small sleds like these. They seem to get swamped a lot. Most of them are totally open on top and as soon as the boat gets caught for a second the water just pours in over the side. One guy had a helicopter pick his sled off the bottom of the river and slowly extract it. I like how your boat has that cover over the back, some kind of skirt around the cockpit would really seal it up and make it much harder to sink. The other thing was that no one wears any kind of helmet. Skull vs rock is 100% fail.

 

[smwizzz]

Yup

I watched the same thing and combined with experience decided a few things were needed. One a fire wall to keep chunks and pieces from grinding into the passenger compartment if something blows up. Two an engine bay cover to keep water out. Three a good pump protector to keep rocks from bashing important parts. Four a roll bar to allow me to get out if it upsets.

If you look closely, my windshield comes down the sides and has a lip that goes across the back of the seat so water that does end up on the engine lid doesn't get in the cockpit. My windshield has a lip to deflect water back and out. They are little items, but they do work. We have tested them. I will say if you do something real stupid you can get the water to come over the windshield. Once again we tested this and managed close to 45 gallons of water I think. Still that is miles from sinking, I never did the math to see how many gallons this rig will hold, but it is way beyond 45 gallons. 45 gallons did get us wet though lol.

I haven't even come close to upsetting it. Honestly that is one thing I really don't need to test. We have done some crazy turns and it is very stable. I can see if one was in the wrong spot in a set of rapids and got messed up, it could definitely be upset. I try to keep it shiny side up, greasy side down. The roll bar is just a back up. Hopefully we never find out how well it works.

 

[smwizzz]

longer is better

Oh yeah, mine is 8 ft 10 1/2 inches long. Your bud is doing an 11 foot hull. I think that may be beneficial in the whitewater. It will help keep the pump in the water. It also streamlines the hull. My hull has had some streamlining done to make it work properly but it is limited by length. The length also allows larger frame motors to be installed.

Mine rips at 37.8 mph on GPS with a 650. I think we could probably tune it to the 40 mark if we spent some time. It would be nice to run a larger 4 stroke to get the hp and fuel economy.

I built my boat wide for floatation. I would have no prob with a larger engine aside from the length. We had 3 people in it and no issues. Same speed, same handling and economy.

You asked about the seats. My seats are cushioned and we have hit some big rocks, jumped off some rock shelves, jumped logs and been in some decent size... actually pushing the limits of a little boat, white water. I have hit sand and gravel bars to see the effect. The design seems to work and doesn't hurt. Worst was my bud wacked the dashboard with his knee. He is OK and he learned to keep his legs under the dash and feet on the foot rests.

There are a million things one could do and some would definitely help and I am sure some would hinder the little rig. We have tested different strakes, modded the reverse chine, tweaked different areas of the hull just to see how it effects the boat. I have some ideas to incorporate into my next one this year. Next year I am going to design a more speed influenced design that is longer and will run much more power.

Yeeeeee....haaawwwww. Git R Done!!!!

Having the time of my life!!!!

 

[Matte Murder]

Do you know how much it weighs? Do you have bilge pumps? I really like your closed off design much better. The enclosed bow and engine cover make it a lot harder to swamp. I really like the aluminum construction too. A guy could easily mod the hull to fit his own requirements. My buddy is putting an 1100 Sea Doo engine in his. Pretty sure it is a non-turbo older gen as he is trying to really hold the costs down. The new Sea Doo turbo engines make 250 plus HP. Guys are running 16 foot sleds with a lot less than that. Just to make things a lot more complicated take a look at the Wooldridge boats and how he does what he calls the "jet tunnel".

 

[smwizzz]

Ya...

Do you know how much it weighs? Do you have bilge pumps? I really like your closed off design much better. The enclosed bow and engine cover make it a lot harder to swamp. I really like the aluminum construction too. A guy could easily mod the hull to fit his own requirements. My buddy is putting an 1100 Sea Doo engine in his. Pretty sure it is a non-turbo older gen as he is trying to really hold the costs down. The new Sea Doo turbo engines make 250 plus HP. Guys are running 16 foot sleds with a lot less than that. Just to make things a lot more complicated take a look at the Wooldridge boats and how he does what he calls the "jet tunnel".

Definitely run bilge pumps. I have the venturi set up on the pump which is twin pickups one on each side of the intake. I also run two electrics. So far the electrics have not really been required with the venturi setup. My intake has a gap at the transom so water can get from side to side which is good if one pump quits. I have managed to get a good bit of water over the windshield a couple times... Once trying to see how it handles a 40 mph panic turn to see if it could be swamped and once I hit a boulder the size of my truck coming down some rapids. It gets your attention real quick but the boat floated very well and not enough water got in to effect the rest of the trip. by the time I turned on the bilge the venture's had taken care of it. Probably should just turn them on in those spots and let them run. After thought....

As far as big power goes, I a running 85 HP and it works very well. I do believe 150 HP is really starting to push the boats limits. I see some with 120 hp and they fly. It has a very stiff steering also and the more HP the harder it will steer unless you go with a rack and pinion or the other popular one... can't remember the name. Once again it costs $$$. I added two 12 ft cables that we had from another boat project and they never cost anything. My concern with too much power is the handling of the boat as they are very twitchy already with 60 degree lock to lock steering. I think a 50 - 60 MPH boat would be awesome but I am more concerned with the cruising speed and being able to drive slowly in technical spots. Weight is also a factor. Although.... I would be willing to sacrifice weight for the right 4 stroke for the torque and fuel economy.

My boat rings in close to the 600 lb mark dry. I have not weighed it yet and may not until my next one is complete. It probably should have been around 500 lbs but the firewall and engine bay cover are 0.100" alum and are heavy. I also added the swim grid which I thought may be useful for long trips that require spare fuel or a cooler for carrying fish on fishing trips. The roll is a no brainer... a must have in one of these boats. We went up a small river that was pretty extreme for the size of boat... actually any boat would have potential problems with the amount of rocks one could hit. I put the bar in not so much for rollover protection as a means to escape if the boat flipped over in shallow water. If it pinned you down it wouldn't take much to drown. My concern was more like falling of a shelf sideways for some reason and tipping over.

The next boat will be slightly different and I will shave some weight where it is not required. I have been keeping my eyes open for a bigger engine/pump combo. The basic idea will be the same and I want to keep it as simple as possible... I may keep the drive train the same for another season. I have found a couple good buys with good power but I don't need anything more. I am waiting for the right combo to come up and I have the time to wait for the best one, which is not nessecarily the cheapest. I want a good setup with reliability, fuel economy and as quiet as possible.

Good luck bud, hope it works out as well as mine... you'll be happy with that!!!

 

[smwizzz]

Check it out!!!

A small boat vid... it is long but after a minute or so it gets pretty rough. I'll post a couple more using a different camera at a different angle.

http://youtu.be/tML4FsSj3dU


Oh yeah it's a good idea to NOT bring someone who panics...

 

[smwizzz]

One more.... for now

So my internet is real slow as usual. I did get these two new vids on there but the rest are taking their time.


http://youtu.be/U8LzHjK6R1o

 

[Matte Murder]

What is the venturi effect? Water in the bilge gets sucked out by the jet pump?

 

[smwizzz]

venturi

What is the venturi effect? Water in the bilge gets sucked out by the jet pump?

Yup, there are two tubes going into the pump outlet and it pulls bilge via venturi created by the tubes in the jet stream. Kinda like a carburator....

 

[smwizzz]

Wow!!!

It always amazes me how fast time flies. The summer just started... months ago... but it seems like it just started. I built my boat and have used the crap out of it. I have a new hull sitting in the shop with the mods done and a new engine pump setup ready to roll. I have a third proto type on the way and guess What!!! It's almost time to work on my sled!!! Another month and I better be getting on that. I have a new one on the way but I need my turbo Yammy to be rocking for the season. My new Pro is going to be alot of fun I am sure but it is not a turbo 4-stroke!

I will probably post some pics of the repairs in the near future.

Cheers!!!

 

[smwizzz]

Parts

Well I feel the chill in the air. It is almost fishing season now which is the fall. I came home to a cold house tonight. I just built two more mini boats. I have a Skinz front end coming for my Yammy and I have a snow check ride yet to show up.... probably sooner than later... I will be assembling the poor burnt up Yammy very soon.

Time flies when you are busy. I have a trip to our lodge north of Prince Rupert to make before the snow flies. I need to catch a couple salmon for the winter months and I think the grass needs cut around the house and cabins. I think burning out went out along time ago.... just fizzling now!!! lol.

I am not sure what happened this year, I haven't even started my dirt bike!!! I haven't even pulled it out of the cube van I have it stored in. My Jeep hasn't moved an inch, I took the snow plow off and thats it!!! I have parts for my snow ride and I hope I have time to do whats right and assemble it all.

I think we are all in the same boat... summer comes... winter comes... and they both move on again and again. Looking forward to some white time!!! Guess I'll have to put the plow on the Jeep and drive it in the winter!!!

 

[EZmoney]

If you come to prince Rupert and bring the little boat give me a heads up. There will be a few of us who would like to see it from prince Rupert and terrace

 

[smwizzz]

Cool

That would be awesome. I think this year will be my big boat. Our lodge is west of Dease Lake on the Stikine River. I am hoping to have a little boat up that way next summer. I need my big boat this trip to pack our gear, hopefully next year my dad will be there for the summer and have a big boat there... mind you I could put the little boat on the back of my big one... lol.

On another note: We have three of the little hulls built now. We built one 14 inches longer for my bud. I have revised the chine on the second shorter one. I am hoping we have all three complete and tested this year before snow flies... well before the river freezes lol. I want to prove the best one. I do not believe the longer one is going to be something we build for awhile. My brake is not big enough to handle it. We worked hard to bend the bottom and and the side panels are too short so we have a seam in the rear quarters. It will be interesting to test it though for future progress. I have plans to eventually purchase a much larger break/press. The plan is to know which one is the one. Then I will build a hull this winter and check into certification for the spring.

If all goes well I may have the final one on the Skeena tributaries next summer. I'll post the progress once it all comes together. My new hull has a new bow cover, more sporty looking. The windshield is 3 inches higher and a steeper angle which suits the new design very well and hopefully deflects wind and bugs better. I have logged the fab time and have a close ballpark in $$ to fab it. One more hull will set the exact price. I will not be installing intakes, pumps, motors etc. It will be a bare hull only.

Hope this info helps. I know it the time frame is a bit uncertain yet but we have actually worked pretty hard to get this off the ground. I follow certain threads and I feel the same way alot of the turbo guys do about new products. Snowmobilers have been the test crew for the kit builders in the past. I have read suggestions for the new builders to spend their $$ and get the kit on the snow to be proven. I agree and don't want to build something that needs a bunch of work to make it work.

There are a few things that will have to be left for the owner like plain aluminum hull, steel plating or UHMW. Every owner will have their own preference to motor pump etc so pump guards etc will be something they will have to figure out. I can fab the pipe pieces etc as an add on. The engine covers and fire walls once again will depend upon the gear installed under the hood as to location. Mine was installed before the engine and I could have moved it back 4 inches for more cockpit room.

The roll bar is something that is once again a certification issue. I don't need any hassles with failures of such parts. Honestly the boat is so stable I don't believe it needs a roll bar anyway. I have considered not putting one in on my new hull but it does give a great place to mount a GoPro so I may build something similar to a roll bar.

Well I think this has gone on long enough. I will keep everyone posted as things progress.

Cheers!!!