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BDX oil delete, Caused 09 M1000 crank seize in 950miles running 40:1

Are m8 having this problem

Last year I rode a freinds m1000 with stock oiler. Sled wasn't running very well so the owner played with the fuel controller (leaned it down) and said try this ran better but on the way back to the truck it locked up the crank bearings. So this year I bought a 09 m8 because I thought it was a m1000 crank problem. I rode my m8 around 200 miles stock and then installed BDX oil elemination kit I have 864 miles now. IS IT FINE OR SHOULD I TRY SOME OF THESE OTHER MODS ?
 
Last year I rode a freinds m1000 with stock oiler. Sled wasn't running very well so the owner played with the fuel controller (leaned it down) and said try this ran better but on the way back to the truck it locked up the crank bearings. So this year I bought a 09 m8 because I thought it was a m1000 crank problem. I rode my m8 around 200 miles stock and then installed BDX oil elemination kit I have 864 miles now. IS IT FINE OR SHOULD I TRY SOME OF THESE OTHER MODS ?

Sounds like he ran it a little to lean and burnt it down. As far as the BDX oil elimination........................that's the million dollar question! It's what we are trying to get to the bottom of with this post.

Aaron
 
well went riding yesterday and guess what the water pump shaft locked up on the sled! I would definetly say the bdx needs to build some kind of oiler kit for that shaft

Did you pull the BDX supplied bolt out of the bottom? Did oil come running out?

At what RPM did it lock up?

Jason
 
You guys got me worried

I just rode my sled from the trailer to garage 40'. Tipped it on its side removed belly pan and BDX bolt and tipped it back on its skis waiting for oil to run out . OIL on the end of the bolt. Maybe one drop of oil as i type this.
09 m8 bd pg turbo BDX oil delete 40to1 864 miles. NOW WHAT?
 
I just rode my sled from the trailer to garage 40'. Tipped it on its side removed belly pan and BDX bolt and tipped it back on its skis waiting for oil to run out . OIL on the end of the bolt. Maybe one drop of oil as i type this.
09 m8 bd pg turbo BDX oil delete 40to1 864 miles. NOW WHAT?

I am no expert. But if no oil comes out, then I would say some other means of getting oil into the cavity needs to be done. Rather it be drill the case, small oil bottle, ete.

These are the results I have been waiting for, as I would realy like to get rid of the stock oil injection.

I think I will just drill the case like the factory race sleds this summer.
Jason
 
How much oil should come out of the case? Maybe 2 drops came out and some on the end of the bolt. Is this enough? Is the bolt the lowest place in the case?
 
How much oil should come out of the case? Maybe 2 drops came out and some on the end of the bolt. Is this enough? Is the bolt the lowest place in the case?

Do you remember how much oil came out when you removed the factory oil line going to the water pump shaft chamber?
 
Well, I am doing the small Skidoo race bottle as stated above and tested everything on the bench. Instead of going back into the tank with the injection lines that go to the intake boots, I just "T'd" them together into one line and will "T" it right below the nipple of the bottle into the pump feed line. It works like a champ. I will have my premix for consistency and my electronic reverse ('08 model w/ BDX lite DD), but maintain oil to that center cavity. Can't see it using more than an ounce or two a ride tops. Not saying you have to have this, but after this whole post it will be nice to have the peace of mind anyways.

Aaron
 
How much oil should come out of the case? Maybe 2 drops came out and some on the end of the bolt. Is this enough? Is the bolt the lowest place in the case?

well isnt it possible some oil went into he other crank chamber from the cavity through the seal when your sled was on the side taking the belly pan off..??...i bet that with your sled on the side and bolt out you could squirt oil in there all day if you gave it a little time to seep..
 
If you want to play it safe then add a way for oil to get to the center cavity, also run the bottom end of the fuel map as fat as possible without a bog. Look at the pic on pg 1 and you can see the seals in the center so oil should get to the bearing from the injection, but one of my bearings was practically falling apart, my water pump still worked but was worn and had what looked like grey anti seize on it. I would say it was a combination of the oil delete and a lean map. thats the bad thing about pre mixing / if you lean it out your motor isn't going to get the amount of oil needed at rpm. the stock oiler works directly off of the rpm of the motor. I think we will see a lot more of this with the ability of the power commander making it possible to run on the lean side all across the board, unlike before.
 
the pc won;t affect any oiling as long as the stock lube pump is operating..your right though on pre-mix situations..good call..probably 32-1 mix is the way to go...only thing though is more premix is a leaner fuel mix so a lean burn is way more likely with more oil unless like you suggest to run as fat as possible
 
There is a bevel on the upper case split line that keeps the laby rings from sealing 100%. I don't know how much effect they have on pre-mix getting into the center cavity, but they will flow to some extent (its beveled on both sides. Something to consider.

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P1060781b.JPG
 
I don't see the washer that stays between the shaft and the oil delete in that picture.

Aaron
 
Good catch, that picture was taken while the engine was just mocked up for drilling the pre-mix ports. Good thing eh!
 
When I originally pulled the stock fitting on the bottom of the case oil did come out. Can't remember exactly how much, but it was more than a few drops. Then, when I first put in a zerk it sat overnight before I took a grease gun to it and there was a 1/2 dollar size puddle of oil on the floor.

Removed the zerk and put the bolt in, as I was afraid if any pre-mix washed out the grease it would leak (maybe I had a cheap zerk, I don't know).

Anyway, today I pulled the bolt to re-grease the cavity (note I'm using lithium engine assembly lube, <500mi on the delete). There was a very thinned out drop of grease on the end of the bolt, but nothing came out. Would make sence if there was original oil in the cavity that mixed with the grease or more pre-mix seeped in. Quirted more grease in the cavity for the time being.

I have a SkiDoo race bottle coming in next week and going to do the same as AaronBND just for peace of mind.

ArronBND, where did you buy the 'T' hose fittings?
 
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What we have to think about here is the basic theory of a two-stroke engine. Remember that the spark-plug fires once every revolution in a two-stroke engine and not every two revolutions like a four-stroke. Because of this, the fuel and air in the cylinder are compressed, and when the spark plug fires the mixture ignites. This resulting explosion drives the piston downward and as the piston moves downward, it is compressing the air/fuel mixture in the crankcase. As the piston approaches the bottom of it's stroke, the exhaust port is uncovered and the pressure in the cylinder drives most of the exhaust gases out of the cylinder. Once the piston finally bottoms out, the intake port is uncovered. What this does is pressurize the mixture in the crankcase, so it rushes into the cylinder, displacing the remaining exhaust gases and filling the cylinder with fresh fuel. Now the momentum in the crankshaft starts driving the piston back toward the spark plug for the compression stroke. As the air/fuel mixture in the piston is compressed, a vacuum is created in the crankcase. This vacuum opens the reed valve and sucks air/fuel/oil in from the throttle body. Once the piston makes it to the end of the compression stroke, the spark plug fires again to repeat the cycle all over again. It's called a two-stoke engine because there is a compression stroke and then a combustion stroke with a vacuum and a pressurization of the cylinder in one revolution. With understanding how a two-stroke works, it is pretty easy to assume there is not pushing and pulling of air or oil in that center cavity, otherwise it would affect the opposite cylinder and they would not be able to counter-act each other. Am I saying there is no seepage at all between the inner bearings, no. What I am saying is I can't see those inner bearings relying on any oil being pulled into them through that center cavity, or the theory of it being a two-stroke wouldn't work. In my testing of the stock oil pump on the bench, I found that the lower banjo fitting supplying this center cavity drips about 1/20th the amount of oil or less the injection fittings do. My conclusion, for what it is worth, is that it is important to get some type of lube in that center cavity to lube the gears and possibly the shaft bushings, but by no means lubes the inner crank bearings to the degree that it is detrimental to the engine for these bearings to survive. Like I said in my post above, to be on the safe side, I am installing a small bottle that will provide oil to this center cavity. Do I need it? Who knows. I believe it is still unconfirmed, but it is certainly a cheap insurance to me.

Aaron
 
Anyway, today I pulled the bolt to re-grease the cavity (note I'm using lithium engine assembly lube, <500mi on the delete). Squirted more grease in the cavity for the time being. I have a SkiDoo race bottle coming in next week and going to do the same as AaronBND just for peace of mind.

ArronBND, where did you buy the 'T' hose fittings?


In my experience with grease and fast spinning gears, the grease gets "slung" off the gears pretty easy and sticks to the sides of the case while the gears tend to run dry. I would use like a "Lucas Oil Stabilizer" or a "Power Punch Oil Supplement" in there I think. It is thick and super slick. Just pull the plug and squirt some of this up in there.

You can get the "T" fittings at any auto parts store. You could use brass or plastic because there is no pressure on these lines.

Aaron
 
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