BDX oil delete, Caused 09 M1000 crank seize in 950miles running 40:1

[lasse]

Full Oil-Injection/pump delete... ?

Ok, I've tried to look at this both ways & either way I don't get it.

IF the center cavity is 100% sealed then shooting some grease in there would solve the problem.

IF the center is not sealed, then we don't have a problem at all,
the premix will get in there one way or another.

The water pump cavity is not sealed to 100 % due to the labyrinth seals.

The stock labyrinth seal on crankshaft leak enough gas/oil to lubricate the gear and bushing.
The center cavity is not completely sealed.
If it was, that cavity would pump completely full of oil and you'd probably blow the oil seal and waterpump seal out.
A labyrinth seal is not a positive seal, especially the little tiny ones we have in our crankshafts.

The Arctic Cat 600 cc race engines have 2 passages drilled in the crankcase to direct lube to the waterpup gears and bushings, the race sleds where siezing pump shafts untill they did this.

That is one one way to do it.
Picture of a Race crankcase ?

I think the mod you did bgreen is the proper way to do it.
Unfortunately, not everyone tears their engine down like you did to do the mod the correct way.
The question is... what can the regular Joe Blow do to protect himself when he wants this mod?

Is that center section a positive vacuum I assume?
If that's the case, a guy should be able to get a 6 mm 90° barb fitting and screw it in the bottom of the case and have a little bottle full of oil somewhere for it to draw out of going to it in a clear line.
It would be interesting to see at the end of a 3-4 hour ride if the bottle was down at all.

For me, doing the delete was for a more consistent injection mix.
I figured it was at least a good 8lbs losing the oil tank too.
You hear a lot of cases of the stock oiler going bad too whether over oiling or under oiling so I guess either way has it's problems.

Yes, oil level will have decreased
because the labyrinth seals do not seal to 100%
...Been there done that

The decision to delete your oil pump should be based on several factors, one of which is your own tolerance for risk.
If a person wants to delete their pump simply to save a few lbs, but doesn't have the budget to pay someone to strip their motor down and do the porting (or have the time/ability to do it themselves),
they probably shouldn't consider it an option.
A burned up motor or two is a pretty expensive way to save 8 lbs or less.

If a guy is concerned about a stickey oil pump causing runability problems, has exhausted all other means of eliminating his bog/etc,
has the time and ability to perform the necessary mods to the case,
and has a moderate tolerance for risk,
then this stuff we are talking about might make sense.

The center section is probably in a constant state of change, positive pressure, through one part of the cycle, and negative pressure (vacuum) in the other.

I hooked up a hose to a banjo fitting to the bottom hole,
ran the hose up and tied it off and plugged it off after adding an ounce or two...

I can fill that hose all day and start the sled and it smokes like a train...
so the oil definately passes through the cavity and labyrinth seals into the main crankcase...
so the crankcase definately lubes the cavity.

x2
exactly !

I run 40-1 premix and have a Ski-Doo racing bottle ( holds about 5 ozs.) reroute oil lines from throttle bottle boots back to tank, keep oil line going to crank cavity and good to go.
I use about 2 ozs per 50 mile ride and no worries.

I've been greasing the cavity every few rides, which is kind of a PITA...
and potential blow-up is always in the back of my mind.
Just ordered a racing bottle from a Ski-Doo dealer

In the Ski-Doo pictures (440/600 racer parts diagram),
they are using it for the same thing...
to lube the oil pump shaft cavity when pre-mixing.
But, from the pics it looks gravity fed (no pump).

From what I've read, sounds like gravity feed would use oil faster than the pump system?
Guys talk about smoking like crazy, etc..

Opinions ??

Rotax uses a far more supperior crank seal compared to the Suzuki labyrinth seal.
Rotax crank seal design seals to 99~100%
On all Rotax water cooled engines with an Oil Delete you just mount the bootle and the gravity will take care of the rest.
Rotax has had this design since the 70's.
Fill the oil reservoir at the beginning of each season and then you will not need to refill it throughout the season ( provided the seals are intact )

Just for reference, are you one that greases, shoots oil in there or does nothing? Take pictures when you have it tore down. I am curious if your inner crank bearings are spinning rough, if your oilite seal in the end of the BDX piece is dry, or if the gears are stripped or seized on the pump shaft.
We HAVE to get to the bottom of this for guys.
It's sounding to me like the only safe method is the little tank in there oiling that lower cavity.

I am doing the small Ski-Doo race bottle as stated above and tested everything on the bench.
Instead of going back into the tank with the injection lines that go to the intake boots, I just "T'd" them together into one line and will "T" it right below the nipple of the bottle into the pump feed line.
It works like a champ.
I will have my premix for consistency but maintain oil to that center cavity. Can't see it using more than an ounce or two a ride tops.
Not saying you have to have this, but after this whole post it will be nice to have the peace of mind anyways.

I have tried this on Wife's sled and I must fill the oil bottle before every ride.
Next step is to get the same type of crank seals that Rotax using and mount them on the Suzuki cranksahft.
I am tired of constantly filling the oil reservoir and that a lot of unnecessary oil is constantly being supplied
which, among other things, has an adverse effect on idling.

 

[Hardass]

we did the pump delete to all ours put a grease fitting and only grease about 3 times a year with thousands of mile no trouble