BDX oil delete, Caused 09 M1000 crank seize in 950miles running 40:1

[WyoBoy1000]

Your absolutely right, and I would like to add that we, as the consumer, need to take responsibility for our equipment too. The BDX bumper causing tunnels is a great example. Its our responsibility to inspect our sleds on a regular basis, especially when we modify them with light weight and/or performance parts. Its also our responsibility to install our mods with care and understanding of how they work. How many people here, that have had oil delete kit failures have taken the time to actually measure the clearance between the water pump shaft and the bushing? How do we know that the shaft wasnt slightly out of spec from the factory?

None of us can prove without a doubt that our sleds wouldn't have had a crank/waterpump shaft failure if we had left our stock injection pump alone.

Agreed.
This also needs to be taken care of by BDX. Its a customer service issue
and when there part doesn't do the expected function they claim its a problem, If they can't start taking more action on prevention and letting customers that have already bought there product know of possible(I'm not saying every little thing, just the ones that are actual problems from modding and have happened many times) problems then they will loose business. Even though this is my fault they are loosing business because of it. Surprising they have nothing to say, or maybe they know when to stay quite.

 

[JHG]

maybe they know when to stay quiet.

I think this is the case. I know of several people, including myself that have talked to them about this and they will say nothing but the product is fine and the failures are from improper premixing. In the thread about this I started at the end of the summer, Photomaker emailed BDX and posted their response. It went something like this "we have only heard of one failure on snowest and it was the result of improper mixing. Mix 40:1 and you will be fine."

I don't know if anyone has the correct answer. I believe that something needs to be done, and I have taken care of it on my sleds. Fixing the potential issue isn't to hard when you balance the effort to fix it and the risk without it. Connect an oil line, install and bottle, grease zerk, drill the cases....lots of options. Everyone on here has been warned that there "may" be a problem.

Lots of people have different opinions about sleds. Example: Backcountryislife doesn't feel the need to run a draw down resistor w/o headlights. I think it’s a good idea and a $50 resistor is cheaper than a bad stator. Just different outlooks. He also thinks the oil delete is fine, I think a couple hours in the shop to get it right is cheaper than a crank. Again, different outlooks. He's not wrong (in fact, I think he's right on both occasions), and has tons of trouble free miles to prove it. I also have never had an issue doing things my way and I don't have any worries about it when I ride. If you can leave it alone and not worry then go for it, if it's going to bother you fix it.

 

[Klimbing Kitty]

2400 miles on my delete and no problems. But you got to be kidding me if you start modding out your sled and expect to last as long as a stock M8. Nobody mods out an M sled and rides it on the trail with their Grama. People who mod sleds generally ride hard and are not easy on machines. if your sled is running that lean and you ad more oil to your premix you are actually leaning it out more. you pay to play in this sport. When you mod a sled you loose your warranty fact of life. In fact when I pic my sleds up from the dealer they did not even give me my warranty as they new a turbo was going into it. If you feel safer putting a fitting in there so that you know it is getting more oil go for it. if not dont! I didn't.

 

[JasonAK]

Has anyone with just the BDX Delete, taken out the bolt to see if any oil comes out of the hole?

 

[WyoBoy1000]

BigHoe I remember your thread and some very good info, I was one like Backcountry that said _____ miles no problems. I was going to add a line to add oil but kept running out of time and figured I'll be fine.

Klimbing kitty, I expected more than 950 miles on a non turbo, especially this motor, and obviously you do to. More so I expect more out of aftermarket companies. When I called and asked for more info and none is given and am told you'll be fine. Well that's BS at this point. I can guaranty this would not have happened without the oil delete. I get the point though as I have stated many times, my fault. even though I learned about how the crank case works after I installed it.

there wasn't enough oil in the center of my case to soak some up on a paper towel. DRY

 

[1badm1]

Ok got a question. Every time you hear about a crank failure that involves the BDX oil deletion kit, it is always on a 1000 motor. Why no problem with any of the other cat engines. Seems to me that cat has a problem with there 1000 cranks. A lot of people have lost there cranks in the 1000 with and without the BDX oil deletion.

Who has lost a crank in any other engine besides the 1000 that runs the BDX oil deletion kit???????

 

[WyoBoy1000]

The 1000 crank is huge compared to any other crank on the market. it requires more of everything and creates more heat.

 

[AaronBND]

Refering back to my post #19. I did testing on the oil pump on the bench with the two ports blocked off that go to the intake boots. I spun it with the drill for a good 20 minutes total. It spins it's normal direction counter-clockwise very easy. It did work like a champ and the adjuster arm was removed. It drips a drop of oil every 9 seconds from that bottom banjo where I have it set which is like 1/4 open from idle. The problem is, I have no idea how fast the crank spins it. I guess it would be a trial and error thing. After like a good 3-4 hour ride you could look at the bottle level and go from there on adjusting it to more or less. The way I look at it, anything it is getting is better than the current setup of not getting anything at all. Another concern I have, is with the other 2 ports blocked off, is it putting extra stress on the pump and going to seize or shorten it's life? I'm not sure how the pump is set up inside. If it bypasses it will not be an issue. It does seem to, because it is easily spun with no noticeable load on the bench. I am really thinking about doing it! All you would have to do is run it for a few rides and than pull that bottom banjo bolt and see if oil runs out and if it is really puddling in there. That would tell you if you were pumping to much to it and it not getting transferred out of that cavity. Looks to me like a guy could do the oil delete by just pulling and plugging those two ports and pulling the adjuster arm and than installing a small bottle with oil to feed it.

Aaron

 

[AaronBND]

Funny how if you look at the list of people who have read this post on the bottom of the first screen you will see "BD-Xtreme". Think they had anything to say or add?

Aaron

 

[bgreen776]

Agreed.
This also needs to be taken care of by BDX. Its a customer service issue
and when there part doesn't do the expected function they claim its a problem, If they can't start taking more action on prevention and letting customers that have already bought there product know of possible(I'm not saying every little thing, just the ones that are actual problems from modding and have happened many times) problems then they will loose business. Even though this is my fault they are loosing business because of it. Surprising they have nothing to say, or maybe they know when to stay quite.

Your right, bdx should probably address the issue, as there are at least a solid handful of people that have had problems. Maybe all they need to do is add a disclaimer in their installation instructions, or maybe charge a bit more and include an oil bottle or grease zerk and some tubing.

 

[m8magicandmystery]

this is one of many many repeat threads on this subject...BDX has responded on earlier threads...they stand by their product as it is..do they have to respond every time when we know already..??...and as for the bumper kit i am sorry for a few fellas caught unaware...but the very first sign of trouble almost everyone knew...and knew to be carefull till the update came out...maybee my crank will go...maybee not..but im taking the sled into the modification arena...so i take my chances with the lions

 

[bigcat_ak]

If you don't have a mind coming on this forum crowing about your products then you should do the same when there is a possible problem!

 

[WyoBoy1000]

Funny how if you look at the list of people who have read this post on the bottom of the first screen you will see "BD-Xtreme". Think they had anything to say or add?

Aaron

LOL

Your right, bdx should probably address the issue, as there are at least a solid handful of people that have had problems. Maybe all they need to do is add a disclaimer in their installation instructions, or maybe charge a bit more and include an oil bottle or grease zerk and some tubing.

All it would take is a disclaimer, that read reads there have been very few cranks go out with the BDX oil delete installed that may or may not have been caused by By the BDX oil delete. There are further options to insure longevity of your crank if needed. It is your responsibility to figure it out.

If this kind of statement would have been made, I would have absolutely no problem what so ever with them selling there product as is and taking full accountability. Also with this statement I would have added an extra way to get oil to the center of crank.

I am taking full responsibility of this catastrophic failure so no need for people to say stuff like, what do you expect when modding or if you don't have the money don't mod. But I do expect accountability on the part of aftermarket companies to correct problems and keep us informed, especially when asked.

I think it is a good product and would have installed it even if they told me I needed to add extra stuff, so its not like they would have lost business, but them failing to do so will loose them my business. I will let others be the testers first when it comes to there products.

 

[WyoBoy1000]

this is one of many many repeat threads on this subject...BDX has responded on earlier threads...they stand by their product as it is..do they have to respond every time when we know already..??...and as for the bumper kit i am sorry for a few fellas caught unaware...but the very first sign of trouble almost everyone knew...and knew to be carefull till the update came out...maybee my crank will go...maybee not..but im taking the sled into the modification arena...so i take my chances with the lions

I can't remember seeing there response to these types of threads and started this as I told people I had no problems before in many of the other threads.
Can you remember there statements?

Any one have a crank or full motor they want to sell.

 

[backcountryislife]

Lots of people have different opinions about sleds. Example: Backcountryislife doesn't feel the need to run a draw down resistor w/o headlights. I think it’s a good idea and a $50 resistor is cheaper than a bad stator. Just different outlooks. He also thinks the oil delete is fine, I think a couple hours in the shop to get it right is cheaper than a crank. Again, different outlooks. He's not wrong (in fact, I think he's right on both occasions), and has tons of trouble free miles to prove it. I also have never had an issue doing things my way and I don't have any worries about it when I ride. If you can leave it alone and not worry then go for it, if it's going to bother you fix it.

On the other hand, because of your thread, I DID add grease to the delete on this sled, so thank you for the ideas that get posted on here!!

I think it's a good mod, but I find it strange that they don't just suggest a simple change in directions to have folks add a step to increase reliability for those FEW people that will have a problem. I think it's worth a bit of work to not have the sled blow up!! Hell, the zerk that sidehill showed, is a VERY simple fix that requires a tiny amount of work to add, it's a shame to not do something just for insurance. Adding a squirt each month or so would take about 2 minutes & someone who is going to pull their oil inj. isn't going to be scared off by the tiny amount of work that would take.

btw, well over 10k miles without lights now (and HOPE I don't get proven wrong on that one!!) We've all got different opinions & levels of acceptable risk, that's the way it goes, but I think we get enough info out there that helps folks make a better choice on how to make something work better.

 

[highmark18]

We have been deleting oil pumps for years. The only safe, bulletproof, for-sure method of getting lube to the center crank bearings/water pump shaft is to angle drill a hole in the top half of the case. Sure it takes extra time, but what is it worth when you are sitting at the bottom of a ravine with a busted sled? Why take off the oil injection system, then replace it with some made up system to try and lube the center shaft? Do it right the first time, then you can pull the rope and ride with no worries. And if you want to save a little money, just buy the block off plate from Cat part # 3006-633 and the gasket # 3004-286. Together they are under 10 bucks.

 

[gopher-it!]

oil

Great idea. I've been greasing the cavity every few rides, which is kind of a PITA... and potential blow-up is always in the back of my mind. Just ordered a racing bottle from a SkiDoo dealer, $35. PN 420956240

In the SkiDoo pictures (440 racer parts diagram), they are using it for the same thing .. to lube the oil pump shaft cavity when pre-mixing. But, from the pics it looks gravity fed (no pump).

From what I've read, sounds like gravity feed would use oil faster than the pump system? Guys talk about smoking like crazy, etc..

Opinions ??

Gopher .. do you need PN's 28, 29, 30 for the hoses to fit? What fittings did you use to 're-route' the injection hoses going back into the tank?

no gravity feed .just used fittings i had, make sure you connect to the proper outlet on the bottom of the tank,also the cap didnt vent very well so i put a one way check valve in. check this by filling with oil and see in drains out with cap tight, put a tee in the main oil line feeding the oil pump, then connect the two oil lines that were going too your reed cages to another tee and connect the two tees , done.

 

[M1000Mod162]

well went riding yesterday and guess what the water pump shaft locked up on the sled! I would definetly say the bdx needs to build some kind of oiler kit for that shaft

 

[snowmobiler]

got the engine apart?lets see some pics of your lack of oil smoked bushing.never seen one.

 

[AaronBND]

Just for reference, are you one that greases, shoots oil in there or does nothing? Take pictures when you have it tore down. I am curious if your inner crank bearings are spinning rough, if your oilite seal in the end of the BDX piece is dry, or if the gears are stripped or seized on the pump shaft. We HAVE to get to the bottom of this for guys. It's sounding to me like the only safe method is the little tank in there oiling that lower cavity.

Aaron