I think the Alaska guys video really was bad press. Really though if you can’t be guaranteed that the business will even be there next year it’s hard to believe they are a good idea to buy. Kinda not fair to guys that trusted them and bought snow check. Could be like a old Indian motorcycle too I guess. Time will tell.
Arctic Cat in Trouble
- Thread starter GoBigParts
- Start date
Better one than cats giving…
Don’t get me wrong I love my 600 and I. Know I’d love the 858 it’s just kinda scary to think there may not be much support. I bought cat care for ni e so maybe Iam good! Bwahaha!
Don’t get me wrong I love my 600 and I. Know I’d love the 858 it’s just kinda scary to think there may not be much support. I bought cat care for ni e so maybe Iam good! Bwahaha!
How’s all this snow! Omgoodness!!!
2000 was the first 800 twin. I had one. Trouble free. Sold it to my buddy and it blew up on him.
That guy lays it out pretty well, I think. I do take some exception on the question of student loans: there needs to be a lot more risk/reward calculus involved, and it should arguably be more of a conventional loan. Universities are getting stupid rich because of the glut of student loan money available, which means they can get away with spiraling tuition charges - even as the value of what they're delivering has completely tanked. A similar "throw money at the problem" approach has driven health care costs to the sky, with similarly dismal results. Anyway, he's absolutely right about the people at the top having little sense of their product or its long-term market. Like he said, very few companies are run by people who live and breathe the product they make - instead, it's the same guy running the show, whether the product is light bulbs or commercial jets.
I don't think Polaris is in real trouble at the moment, although I'd say they aren't pointed in the right direction. The snowmobile market isn't just going to die - even in the mountain segment, there's more than enough room for multiple manufacturers if they can keep prices down. He hit the nail on the head talking about sleds being too big and expensive though. The pool of people who can remotely afford a new sled just keeps shrinking. What's probably needed is a shift to simpler, lighter, and (unfortunately) less powerful sleds. It has to be well under $10k, and wouldn't compete with the current top mountain sleds. A fresh start approach might be competitive with 600s, but lighter and easier for the average person to handle. It's interesting to note that sled sales slid and slid in the 00s with no benefit from the bigger motors everyone was building, despite the strong economy. The '08 collapse meant the big three fell back on making a better 800. They've kind of gone back to the arms race in the last 6-8 years though, and the timing is very poor. Something smaller and more basic is called for, and an outsider might be the one to crack the code. If that's the case, the big three (maybe two) could be in big trouble. A casual rider who can buy a sled that does 90% of what he wants compared to the big boy for half the cost is going to have no trouble making that choice.
I think more guys "need" a turbo than you think... there has been an explosion of excellent riders the last few years, fueled by social media. There are also plenty of guys that don't "need" one, they just want one because they are fun. I would say my riding group is probably 50/50 but ALL now have turbos, and ALL will continue to buy turbos.
I totally disagree with focusing on NA. Cat needs to pull riders from Doo and Poo. They aren't going to do that without a turbo.
They have tried the up and coming riders thing with the whole black cat deal. I saw regular social media content from them. It's just tough with a dated chassis (yes it's updated now) and no boost when everyone else is doing catwalks in the flats, hopovers, and bowties with cool turbo noises.
Cat is not going to pull a lot of riders from Doo and Poo without a twin rail option either.
Cat should offer a twin-rail. Maybe Cat is right that there's not much reason for it, but some people will reject a monorail anyway because they "tried it and didn't like it" (hopped on a buddy's Ascender a few years ago, in many cases). Unlike the turbo, it costs them basically nothing to offer, is the thing.
The more I think about the turbo and contrast it with the market though, the more I say Cat should be going the other direction. They can slug it out for a shrinking market at the top, or work to open the bottom of the market. I'm thinking a stripped-down Catalyst with a stripped-down engine. 800ish with no exhaust valves, using the 858 bottom end, simplified clutch, body, display, etc. I think just under $10k is possible; Doo's Summit Neo is right there. No factory options - they all come the same, and the dealer can handle common add-ons (like e-start, or colors and graphics). Make sure it still rides like the 858 though. They could out-gun everything in the 600/650 class for less money. Why waste the R&D on a turbo when you'd outsell that 3-1? You're not profiting 3-1, granted, but should be the same or better, and more volume has a lot of fringe benefits.
The more I think about the turbo and contrast it with the market though, the more I say Cat should be going the other direction. They can slug it out for a shrinking market at the top, or work to open the bottom of the market. I'm thinking a stripped-down Catalyst with a stripped-down engine. 800ish with no exhaust valves, using the 858 bottom end, simplified clutch, body, display, etc. I think just under $10k is possible; Doo's Summit Neo is right there. No factory options - they all come the same, and the dealer can handle common add-ons (like e-start, or colors and graphics). Make sure it still rides like the 858 though. They could out-gun everything in the 600/650 class for less money. Why waste the R&D on a turbo when you'd outsell that 3-1? You're not profiting 3-1, granted, but should be the same or better, and more volume has a lot of fringe benefits.
Although I hear a lot of talk about the prices of new sleds and many being priced out of the sport, how many would actually really buy a bare bones, stripped down model?
When I traveled Europe, you'd see so much commuting in cities done on 1970's era bicycles. One speed, steel frame, no thrill bikes. The masses used them, no need to lock them up, they're barely worth $50 anyways, right?
Take that concept to America and within a year, it'd be an LED headlight, then a lighter alloy frame, more gears, followed by phone chargers, navigation, etc. After five years, there'd be no more $50 bikes, only $1,000 commuter bikes that you'd have to lock up....it's the American way to try and outdo everyone!
When I traveled Europe, you'd see so much commuting in cities done on 1970's era bicycles. One speed, steel frame, no thrill bikes. The masses used them, no need to lock them up, they're barely worth $50 anyways, right?
Take that concept to America and within a year, it'd be an LED headlight, then a lighter alloy frame, more gears, followed by phone chargers, navigation, etc. After five years, there'd be no more $50 bikes, only $1,000 commuter bikes that you'd have to lock up....it's the American way to try and outdo everyone!
Very well stated.
Americans are our own worst enemy and it's all driven by the constant unadulterated advertising and market manipulation that we fall for every day. Big bore sleds (800cc and up) out sell mid level sleds (600-650) in the neighborhood of 8-1. So for those who think they just need to build smaller/cheaper sled, it won't work. Although the argument makes logical sense from from a consumer cost standpoint, the markets have already been programmed to desire and have to have the "biggest."
The goldwing of snowmobiles. Hideous but functional and way faster than it should be. Also some similarities with a fat girl, I don’t want my friends to see me with one
Totally agree, I’m 68 and don’t like “out of control” that turbos spooled up can create
An NA sled will get me everywhere I want to go with much less fatigue. I understand why the younger, fitter, quicker and less concerned about injury or avalanche want to ride a turbo.
As stated in one of the above posts, 80 percent of riders should not be on a turbo and in most terrain and snow conditions would ride an NA better. The other 20% are very skilled who benefit from a turbo.
Totally agree also, played on this for a couple of hours also, it has two purposes deep or trail in between I don't want it.Totally agree, I’m 68 and don’t like “out of control” that turbos spooled up can create
An NA sled will get me everywhere I want to go with much less fatigue. I understand why the younger, fitter, quicker and less concerned about injury or avalanche want to ride a turbo.
As stated in one of the above posts, 80 percent of riders should not be on a turbo and in most terrain and snow conditions would ride an NA better. The other 20% are very skilled who benefit from a turbo.
Lynx makes that same verision turbo R with a twist. It'll eat that 20 wide expedition for lunch. Different skid different skis different program. Wrong guy on it and it won't make it threw the season. Skis are only happy lightly touching or cat walking and still pull like a freight train on a trail without over heating.
Off trail this is not a friendly machine, HTFO, Cat needs to be smart on thier next move because if you can think of something someone is already doing it.
4 years ago
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The masses are all poor in Europe.
They wouldn't even have the pos bikes if it wasn't for United States sending money to that cesspool.
Insane taxes.
Eff that.
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Say what you will but this guy absolutely rips ! Don’t think it matters what he rides but he likes the 858 .
Shame Cat came out with a chassis that rocks and the parent company cant see the future of what it could bring long term.
