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Arctic Cat in Trouble

that’s one thing that always baffled me. When the proclimb came out and had issues in 2012 they were never allowed to live it down, at least on the internet, even though they were pretty solid sleds by 2014 and just got better from there. Even after the ascender came out people were still bad mouthing them for the 2012 issues. Yet Polaris has been building less than reliable engines for years and then the stacks of recalls in recent years, or the belt eating issues when the doo 850 came out and aside from the guys who personally experienced the issues, not much was said.
 
It also seems like Cat started to get lazy with R&D schedules around that time. With the m series they were good with keeping it updated, and they stayed popular. New chassis in 05, new motors in 07, dropped 20lbs in 09, new motor in 2010.

With the Proclimb and Ascender, they were slow to progress. New chassis in 2012 and then the only thing that changed for the next 3 years were fixes to the 2012 problems. 2016-2019 all had good improvements but then they were stagnant again from 2020-2023 (and 2024 only saw the 600cc version of the Catalyst).

The other two drip-feed new features better to keep people coming back, just like car manufacturers do. Mid-model refreshes and updates are needed to keep people interested.
 

 
that’s one thing that always baffled me. When the proclimb came out and had issues in 2012 they were never allowed to live it down, at least on the internet, even though they were pretty solid sleds by 2014 and just got better from there. Even after the ascender came out people were still bad mouthing them for the 2012 issues. Yet Polaris has been building less than reliable engines for years and then the stacks of recalls in recent years, or the belt eating issues when the doo 850 came out and aside from the guys who personally experienced the issues, not much was said.
Uhh pretty much all of us on the Polaris forum bitched about it. But it was either go to a reliable but piss poor handling Doo or the Stoneage Cat. Kinda between a rock and a hard place. And aside from the annoying recalls, most had good luck with their sleds

I really hope cat makes it. i really want to ride the new sled. But as terry said, you need a turbo in the lineup (even though most riders don’t “need” one). I have to imagine my market is one of the largest in the US. I ride from 9-11k feet. The power loss is insane. NA 850 won’t wheelie or bow tie for **** where i’m at. NA is easier for technical situations but not as fun.
 
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I now understand why congress is so dysfunctional, like this thread, they are spending far to much time telling the masses what they need and far to little time listening and find a solution. Why are some so damn adamant about who needs a turbo? If a turbo prevents me from being stuck one time all day, in that one moment I needed a turbo! The argument based on a turbo being the only issue for artic cat is over simplification. If a product is lacking the profitability to invest in research and development it will become obsolete. The consumer is the impetus, no amount of hype and promotion will make a product successful if it isn't what the costumers want. All three offer expansive product lines, the lack of a turbo for an ice fisher is meaningless, are they buying cats? Apparently not in large enough numbers. Okay I am done being pragmatic. Somewhere between 10% and 93% of riders don't need no stinking turbo!
 
It is justification of the purchase they have made. Doo and Poo people don't want other brands to have any success to help them be happy with what they have minus the flaws that each brand has. If a Cat rider loves the chassis they have that much there are turbo option. They will make it happen. It will cost within 1-2 k of what other brands are charging for turbos. Same with a twin rail. Might even run better. Everyone is screaming warranty, but are living with throttle cables sticking and totaling sleds. Pulled a btand new 9r off the mountain 2 days ago with that problem after hitting a tree. People are evolving to the point of only being happy when they can tell everyone their stuff is better and you must follow their lead. I understand brand ribbing and competition but it is getting ridiculous.
 
It is justification of the purchase they have made. Doo and Poo people don't want other brands to have any success to help them be happy with what they have minus the flaws that each brand has. If a Cat rider loves the chassis they have that much there are turbo option. They will make it happen. It will cost within 1-2 k of what other brands are charging for turbos. Same with a twin rail. Might even run better. Everyone is screaming warranty, but are living with throttle cables sticking and totaling sleds. Pulled a btand new 9r off the mountain 2 days ago with that problem after hitting a tree. People are evolving to the point of only being happy when they can tell everyone their stuff is better and you must follow their lead. I understand brand ribbing and competition but it is getting

You need a few feet of snow and some throttle therapy to help you through these trying times.
 
Nope, the solution is a fair tax rate that applies to everybody equally. The tax code is riddled with carve-outs and loopholes the average person can't use - true - but they wouldn't be there except for the high upper-bracket rates. And even with the "tax cuts for the rich," the top 1% still pay 45% of personal income tax. Who can tax cuts possibly go to when the bottom 50% of earners pay about 3% of taxes? Tax the rich unequally, and they'll find ways around it, leave, or just live off what they've got already. Corporate taxes are just passed onto consumers. Finally, the real theft from the middle class is convincing them to lock 15% of their earnings away while dollars are being printed (or just digitally created), inflating away most of the future value while the smart money moves to tangible assets. A stable currency and firmly limited taxation (25% should be the absolute ceiling) are essential to a functioning (let alone strong) economy, and we're burning that candle at both ends.
Beartooth: You should read the Thomas Piketty book "Capital". After that, you will be informed, and your advice may become factual and valuable. As of right now, your advice is the Kool-Aid, delivered from rich guys who want money from the bottom 98%, served to the ill-informed masses via guys like you, for the purpose of deceiving the masses. Good luck with that strategy! And welcome to the poor house.
 
Beartooth: You should read the Thomas Piketty book "Capital". After that, you will be informed, and your advice may become factual and valuable. As of right now, your advice is the Kool-Aid, delivered from rich guys who want money from the bottom 98%, served to the ill-informed masses via guys like you, for the purpose of deceiving the masses. Good luck with that strategy! And welcome to the poor house.
I don't read material from proponents of failed economic theories, and it's the rich guys who are fine with highly progressive taxes. It's the climbers who pay them, not those on top. Every generation has economists who repackage Marxism (although the ideas are age-old) and manipulate facts and figures to back it up. Don't fall for it. Real economics boils down to simple principles that don't take hundreds of pages to explain. I'll consider your approach when you can point to a country that prospered as a result of wealth redistribution. We're nowhere near a truly capitalist economy, and yet the closet Marxists get to play it both ways, criticizing "capitalism" [that isn't] and calling for nice-sounding policies ("from each according to his means") that just kill incentive and economic freedom. At best, Piketty's theories will make everyone equally miserable; all to often the end product is millions dead.
 
I don't read material from proponents of failed economic theories, and it's the rich guys who are fine with highly progressive taxes. It's the climbers who pay them, not those on top. Every generation has economists who repackage Marxism (although the ideas are age-old) and manipulate facts and figures to back it up. Don't fall for it. Real economics boils down to simple principles that don't take hundreds of pages to explain. I'll consider your approach when you can point to a country that prospered as a result of wealth redistribution. We're nowhere near a truly capitalist economy, and yet the closet Marxists get to play it both ways, criticizing "capitalism" [that isn't] and calling for nice-sounding policies ("from each according to his means") that just kill incentive and economic freedom. At best, Piketty's theories will make everyone equally miserable; all to often the end product is millions dead.
"when you can point to a country that prospered as a result of wealth redistribution" If you would read history you would know that includes the British United Kingdom, United States, Canada, France, and several other countries from 1920 to 1980. Those countries achieved the largest growth in the middle class, largest shrinkage in the number of Robber-Barons and Monarchs, the largest shrinkage in the number of poor working / starving people, the largest growth in science and technology, AND the largest economic growth in the history of mankind. All of that was achieved at the same time! Simply from installing progressive income taxes, on top of Freedom and Capitalism. Those are 500-year-old facts, thoroughly researched, documented and discussed in great detail in Piketty's book and many other books. That is the root-cause reason we won both WW2 and the Cold War, against fascist, commie dictators. But how could you possibly know that? You don't read books. Especially not books written by Western Phd Economists (Piketty is French). And why should you read Piketty, when you have Commie Russian RT bullshit propaganda on the internet?

Piketty doesn't criticize "capitalism". He merely points out WHY we need to let rich people pay taxes that benefit everyone - especially benefitting the same rich people (roads, schools, police, fire departments, medical care, military defense, social order, border security, etc.), and not expect poor people to pay those taxes. It's because rich people have money, and poor people don't. Is that simple enough for you? The second big reason is when you let the top 1/10 of 1% have all the money for about 300 years, and they waste it building mansions on private, protected castles and islands, private armies, and more hoarding - which naturally occurs in capitalism, the 99.9% of the other people who are poor and starving eventually kill the rich people via revolution, war, or anarchy. It's the natural end-state of Capitalism, and has happened many times throughout history. Progressive income and wealth taxes PRESERVE Capitalism, from dummies like you and Putin.

Is that what you prefer - anarchy, revolution, and war? That's what Putin wants for America. Even ultra-rich people don't like their head going into a guillotine (note the French Revolution). With Dopes like you reading RT crap on the internet, and voting accordingly, Putin is making headway. Sorry, I don't mean to be harsh, and wish you the very best. Am being blunt, because you and your backward thinking (Putin's propaganda) are very dangerous.
 
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"when you can point to a country that prospered as a result of wealth redistribution" If you would read history you would know that includes the British United Kingdom, United States, Canada, France, and several other countries from 1920 to 1980. Those countries achieved the largest growth in the middle class, largest shrinkage in the number of Robber-Barons and Monarchs, the largest shrinkage in the number of poor working / starving people, the largest growth in science and technology, AND the largest economic growth in the history of mankind. All of that was achieved at the same time! Simply from installing progressive income taxes, on top of Freedom and Capitalism. Those are 500-year-old facts, thoroughly researched, documented and discussed in great detail in Piketty's book and many other books. That is the root-cause reason we won both WW2 and the Cold War, against fascist, commie dictators. But how could you possibly know that? You don't read books. Especially not books written by Western Phd Economists (Piketty is French). And why should you read Piketty, when you have Commie Russian RT bullshit propaganda on the internet?

Piketty doesn't criticize "capitalism". He merely points out WHY we need to let rich people pay taxes that benefit everyone - especially benefitting the same rich people (roads, schools, police, fire departments, medical care, military defense, social order, border security, etc.), and not expect poor people to pay those taxes. It's because rich people have money, and poor people don't. Is that simple enough for you? The second big reason is when you let the top 1/10 of 1% have all the money for about 300 years, and they waste it building mansions on private, protected castles and islands, private armies, and more hoarding - which naturally occurs in capitalism, the 99.9% of the other people who are poor and starving eventually kill the rich people via revolution, war, or anarchy. It's the natural end-state of Capitalism, and has happened many times throughout history. Progressive income and wealth taxes PRESERVE Capitalism, from dummies like you and Putin.

Is that what you prefer - anarchy, revolution, and war? That's what Putin wants for America. Even ultra-rich people don't like their head going into a guillotine (note the French Revolution). With Dopes like you reading RT crap on the internet, and voting accordingly, Putin is making headway. Sorry, I don't mean to be harsh, and wish you the very best. Am being blunt, because you and your backward thinking (Putin's propaganda) are very dangerous.
Dang... I'll just mention that the middle class is dying in every country you mention because of progressive taxes, and countries like England especially are self-destructed because of confiscatory taxes (ever hear the tale of the golden goose?), but you've already done me far better than any argument I could make. I know I'm not getting through to you no matter how many books I read or who I cite, and this isn't the place anyway. The sudden hard left to Putin tells me everything: it's remarkable that I'm pointing out economic realities that led to the fall of Rome, but you think you're the student of history and I'm a student of Putin's propaganda. Finally, I read on a regular basis - recently the likes of Solzhenitsyn, Dostoevsky, and Orwell have become all to prescient - and for better or worse, I'm well past the "I can't believe this is happening here" phase.
 
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