Another Stimulus???

[mold]

See mold what you and the left side are looking for is rich folks to pay for stupid folks. so pepole that are good at making money should pay for those that are not so good at it. i have always went 110% at what i do to get ahead in life. see your side whants every one to be the same oh whats that called socialism you guys voted the man that wants it to happen. and to you pol dud what do you know about life im not following you anywhere im putting in my two cents. by the way how old are you can you really vote yet ?...

Wrong as usual Bubba. All I want in for the rich folks to pay the same percentage of tax as I do. I have had a job since I was 14, worked hard, and have kept my expenditures to a minimum. I currently owe nothing and expect nothing. Oh and by the way, I am 63 years young.

 

[polaris dude]

See mold what you and the left side are looking for is rich folks to pay for stupid folks. so pepole that are good at making money should pay for those that are not so good at it. i have always went 110% at what i do to get ahead in life. see your side whants every one to be the same oh whats that called socialism you guys voted the man that wants it to happen. and to you pol dud what do you know about life im not following you anywhere im putting in my two cents. by the way how old are you can you really vote yet ?...

So when you stated "Pol dude you would make a good california person. are you a 4 footer like most are in cal. you would fit in great out there with the rest of them fruit loops look at them they are the most fuked up state there is. dam oboma loving tree hugging wackos !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" your "putting in your 2 cents". Go post that over in the california section of snoWest and see what they think of your opinion.

I'm currently 19, and I believe everyone needs to pay their fair share to keep this country running. I'm sure I will get bashed for this, but I don't think it is fair that many CEO's pay themselves with 100K in cash AND give themselves stock worth millions. Then they can turn around and sell the stock and pay a rate of 15% on it. How fair is it I can be making millions, yet pay less than someone who makes 100,000$? I do not believe the wealthy need to bear the burden of this debt/government. I believe certain wealthy people in society need to step up and pay the same amount in taxes as everyone else.

 

[donbrown]

So when you stated "Pol dude you would make a good california person. are you a 4 footer like most are in cal. you would fit in great out there with the rest of them fruit loops look at them they are the most fuked up state there is. dam oboma loving tree hugging wackos !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" your "putting in your 2 cents". Go post that over in the california section of snoWest and see what they think of your opinion.

I'm currently 19, and I believe everyone needs to pay their fair share to keep this country running. I'm sure I will get bashed for this, but I don't think it is fair that many CEO's pay themselves with 100K in cash AND give themselves stock worth millions. Then they can turn around and sell the stock and pay a rate of 15% on it. How fair is it I can be making millions, yet pay less than someone who makes 100,000$? I do not believe the wealthy need to bear the burden of this debt/government. I believe certain wealthy people in society need to step up and pay the same amount in taxes as everyone else.

So to understand ... Those 2% people need to be taxed MORE. Of all tax from people 100% how much do they pay? The top 2% pay waht percent of all income taxes do they pay now today? Do you think it is 2% and the rest of the population pay 98% ?

Another issue, as president Mr. Clinton put a luxury tax a larger expensive boats ... yachts. Do you think that was fair? Do you think more taxes were generated?

Oh and for those of you who know so much about California ... Mitt Romney lives in California.

 

[donbrown]

So to understand ... Those 2% people need to be taxed MORE. Of all tax from people 100% how much do they pay? The top 2% pay waht percent of all income taxes do they pay now today? Do you think it is 2% and the rest of the population pay 98% ?

Another issue, as president Mr. Clinton put a luxury tax a larger expensive boats ... yachts. Do you think that was fair? Do you think more taxes were generated?

Oh and for those of you who know so much about California ... Mitt Romney lives in California.

Let me answer some of this so you all can comment as to how

BASIC ECONOMICS WORKS IN THE REAL WORLD IMHO

You make boat .. a special type of yacht costing $100,000 before all the goodies. Built purely for entertainment and would be very impractical for commercial use like fishing / diving / salvage etc.

Now before it is even sold the government adds a 20% luxury tax costing $20,000 PLUS the registration fees to use it in any public waterway is an extra $300 a year.

Great deal right? Rich people get the boat and extra taxes go to the government.

RICH person is now approached by BUBBA BOATING based in the Bahamas. Same boat built outside the country, no taxes at all, registration fee is $10. Plus the bahamas hire a tax attorney and have read the tax code and you can buy the boat and expense it to a business if you have a meeting on it once a year or claim it is for lease and depreciate it off you taxes.

So say let them go to the Bahamas.

USA Harbor losses slip fees
USA Diver Boat losses business
USA local dive shop losses business
USA Canvaser shop losses business
USA gas station shop losses business
USA food store shop losses business
USA Company making the boat losses business
USA Cable company / water / wastewater shop losses business
USA Company that made the boat here and now losses business to builder in Bahamas
Lays of fabricators, diemakers, buys less fiberglass, motors, grease, line makers, truck drivers.
USA hardware store sells less lumber
USA restuarant sells less food
USA trucker ships less cargo

ALL THE TAX MONEY LEAVES THE COUNTRY

Which in case ripples thru the community to the guy with the homeless sign on the street cause the boat company down the street just layed off 400 people making boats for rich people.

How does the homeless guy with the sign get less ... cause there is less traffic and less money in the economy ... at least the 400 people building the boats and the "rich people" no longer drive by for the chance to give him $$$.

Maybe they can add a luxury tax on another uncommon item .... hmmm what could they tax most don't use in the USA except maybe Alaska?

One of the Billionaires of Facebook left the USA and became a citizen of Singapore cause selling stock in Singapore has no capital gains tax. he saved 400 million by leaving ... probably bought a private jet (IN SINGAPORE !) and now travels everywhere to have a good time. After he runs out of his 400 million in savings MAYBE he will come back and spend some of the other 600 million to contribute to the US economy.


I'm trying to get some feedback here ... with instant communication ANYWHERE in the world created competition and substitutes for everything inclusing heavily taxed luxury items, places to live, places to keep the toys

As a free country you can take your money and go anywhere.

Added 7 December. This example did in fact happen. (names / countries ficticious)

Bill Clinton and a democratic congress added a 10% luxury on boats priced above $100,000.
The tax lasted from 1990 to 1993 and boat sales cut more than half. They were gonna tax "luxury jets" costing over $250,000 but was cancelled from union lobbying efforts.

Employment directly in this industry was 600,000 in 1989 and was under 400,000 by 1993.
30% of the labor force GONE !

Before the law passed an average (seasonally adjusted) of 650 boats sold per month. After the law NOT ONE BOAT SOLD FOR 4 MONTHS until they figuired how to recoup the tax.

The main reason new boats sold after the law was to corporations who could use it as a decreciating asset to reduce taxes. Even before the bill passed in 1990 the US Treasury Department acknowledged in a report to congress the 10 percent luxury tax on boats will not produce tax revenues to help solve the budget crisis.

In reality the yacht luxury tax revenue did not replace the income tax revenue lost by unemployed workers and bankrupt yacht manufacturers.

The competitive advantage of the USA was reduced and shipbuilders in Europe replaced the boat building from the downsizing of America.

As recent as the oil spill in the Gulf the US leased oil skimming boats from Europe cause we don't buld them anymore!

A republican congressman from Florida presented a bill to repeal the tax and passed late in 1993 when the Demoncrats lost control of congress.

 

[AZ800]

but I don't think it is fair that many CEO's pay themselves with 100K in cash AND give themselves stock worth millions. Then they can turn around and sell the stock and pay a rate of 15% on it. How fair is it I can be making millions, yet pay less than someone who makes 100,000$? I do not believe the wealthy need to bear the burden of this debt/government. I believe certain wealthy people in society need to step up and pay the same amount in taxes as everyone else.

You're partly correct. I make more than 50% of my income from "qualified" dividends. The 15% rate is not on selling stock. That is classified as capital gains and taxed as such, much higher.
Yes that portion of my income gets taxed at a lower rate, but the fact that it adds to my overall income and my overall income is over the $150k threshold for alot of deductions and credits, I get taxed as much or more overall.
Example, dividends come from a Canadian Company (god bless Canada btw or Iwouldn't be in as good of a spot right now!). They come pre-taxed 15%. I only get a foreign tax refund of about 30% so I actually get taxed about 25% at the end of the year.
Many other deductions are out the door now as well. Child tax credit, gone, childcare expenses deduction, gone, rental property losses deduction, gone (well, carried over until I quit making money, but inflation by then will reduce it to pennies on the dollar), investment interest expense deduction, gone, 2nd home mortgage interest deduction, gone (becasue I chose to be honest and report it AND keep paying on a house that has tanked in value rather than adding to the sorry state of housing prices now).

Without devulging what I make, I still get taxed overall, over 30% of my gross income every year. I pay more in taxes than double the median per capita income. PLUS, I'm supporting the economy with my income more than most.
I employ an average of 50 ish people per year, pay interest to 3 different banks monthly for mortgage loans, spend money on the same stuff as the rest of you all on SW, BECAUSE I have it to spend. Donate a decent amount to the less fortunate, etc.
I'm not complaining about the current tax rates (yes, I am, but I accept them) but if certian tax breaks are removed I will tighten my purse strings alot more than someone making 100k a year and all my money will be going to support govt rather than the free economy.

And this is all while the same kids that are playing football with my kids at an overall cost of about $500/kid per season are receiving FREE breakfast,lunch and afternoon snack at school! It's not free, I buy breakfast and lunch for 3/4 of the school every day!

 

[donbrown]

And this is all while the same kids that are playing football with my kids at an overall cost of about $500/kid per season are receiving FREE breakfast,lunch and afternoon snack at school! It's not free, I buy breakfast and lunch for 3/4 of the school every day!

Wow football only $500 here it is over $1,500 per student at the public school.

Cheerleader is over 3 grand.

My daughter auditioned for advanced music was accepted and asked for $2800 plus volunteer to set up take down concert hall, drive my SUV, take and pay for meals during road trips, chapperone etc.

 

[mold]

Oh and for those of you who know so much about California ... Mitt Romney lives in California.

Sorry California, but better you than me.

 

[Twostroke]

We should close our boarders and give california back to mexico!!

Chew on that

 

[polaris dude]

Wow football only $500 here it is over $1,500 per student at the public school.

Cheerleader is over 3 grand.

My daughter auditioned for advanced music was accepted and asked for $2800 plus volunteer to set up take down concert hall, drive my SUV, take and pay for meals during road trips, chapperone etc.

Wait. You actually have to pay to play football and stuff like that? Or is that the expenses of traveling, gear, and stuff like that?

And AZ thanks for the honesty and perspective. Its refreshing to see someone who can explain things without being insulting. I realize some of this stuff I don't have a complete understanding of, but there is only one way to learn

 

[mold]

I realize some of this stuff I don't have a complete understanding of, but there is only one way to learn

Do you need a tutorial on the proper use of velcro gloves? If so, bubba's your go to guy.

 

[Bubba]

Velcro

I think most velcro gloves are west of the river they dont stock them over here.

 

[Mafesto]

Let me answer some of this so you all can comment as to how

BASIC ECONOMICS WORKS IN THE REAL WORLD IMHO

You make boat .. a special type of yacht costing $100,000 before all the goodies. Built purely for entertainment and would be very impractical for commercial use like fishing / diving / salvage etc.

Now before it is even sold the government adds a 20% luxury tax costing $20,000 PLUS the registration fees to use it in any public waterway is an extra $300 a year.

Great deal right? Rich people get the boat and extra taxes go to the government.

RICH person is now approached by BUBBA BOATING based in the Bahamas. Same boat built outside the country, no taxes at all, registration fee is $10. Plus the bahamas hire a tax attorney and have read the tax code and you can buy the boat and expense it to a business if you have a meeting on it once a year or claim it is for lease and depreciate it off you taxes.

So say let them go to the Bahamas.

USA Harbor losses slip fees
USA Diver Boat losses business
USA local dive shop losses business
USA Canvaser shop losses business
USA gas station shop losses business
USA food store shop losses business
USA Company making the boat losses business
USA Cable company / water / wastewater shop losses business
USA Company that made the boat here and now losses business to builder in Bahamas
Lays of fabricators, diemakers, buys less fiberglass, motors, grease, line makers, truck drivers.
USA hardware store sells less lumber
USA restuarant sells less food
USA trucker ships less cargo

Which in case ripples thru the community to the guy with the homeless sign on the street cause the boat company down the street just layed off 400 people making boats for rich people.

How does the homeless guy with the sign get less ... cause there is less traffic and less money in the economy ... at least the 400 people building the boats and the "rich people" no longer drive by for the chance to give him $$$.

Maybe they can add a luxury tax on another uncommon item .... hmmm what could they tax most don't use in the USA except maybe Alaska?

One of the Billionaires of Facebook left the USA and became a citizen of Singapore cause selling stock in Singapore has no capital gains tax. he saved 400 million by leaving ... probably bought a private jet (IN SINGAPORE !) and now travels everywhere to have a good time. After he runs out of his 400 million in savings MAYBE he will come back and spend some of the other 600 million to contribute to the US economy.


I'm trying to get some feedback here ... with instant communication ANYWHERE in the world created competition and substitutes for everything inclusing heavily taxed luxury items, places to live, places to keep the toys

As a free country you can take your money and go anywhere.

That is an excellent example of how it happens in the real world.
However, I would bet that many Democrats would still fail to follow the point of your example.

 

[freekweet mods]

"Tale of two boat makers" Let's say an independent American rebel wants to build boats.He wants classy high end boats for everyone.He knows he will have to compromise on the trim-aluminum and stainless vs. sterling and platinum,no big deal. He employs 400 people all of who he wants to have a boat. So he pays a higher wage to his people vs. the other boat builder.All his workers can afford one of the boats on the monthly pay program including the interest. Now there are 400 new boats in the harbor all of which had to have sales tax paid on them and all other applicable fees (the whole list that donbrown mentioned).One day a person from across the country came to the harbor for vacation,seen the boats and had to have one-he bought a boat paid all fees and had it shipped by truck to the local lake where he lived. Many more people seen this and had to have one-a classy high end boat built by Americans and affordable to boot. Now this rebel American is a savvy business man but he's not greedy so he set his goal for 15% profit and sells 10000 boats for $60,000 each and profits $90,000,000 while circulating $510,000,000 of taxable dollars thru the economy.The other guy thinking since he only caters to the rich and his boats hold more status because of the sterling and platinum trim he will go for 30% profit.Therefore he pays his workers less, none of his people can afford a $100,000 dollar boat. Then one day a rich man came in and bought one of the boats cause this boat had status.But people like this were few and far between and so this boat maker could only sell 3000 boats to get his $90,000,000 and then he only circulates $210,000,000 of taxable revenue while paying his workers less who paid less in income tax and he also took away 7000 chances for others(all the ones donbrown mentioned)to circulate revenue. If consumers demand more and can afford to consume more ,and corporations (in this case the two boat builders) have fair business ethics and are not greedy everybody wins. The wealthy have never been the gears that drive the economy its the consumer,the more everybody has the more everybody has. Besides do you want a Yugo or a Rolls Royce-as for me I'm good with a Cadillac.

 

[skibreeze]

The wealthy have never been the gears that drive the economy its the consumer,the more everybody has the more everybody has. Besides do you want a Yugo or a Rolls Royce-as for me I'm good with a Cadillac.

I'll ignore the rest of your diatribe, but your own statement confirms why "Taxing the rich" is so Fawking stupid. Taxing those luxury boats is a democrat talking point, stick it to the rich. The reality is it didn't work to generate more tax money for the govt, it didn't help the economy, it is an utter failure.

 

[donbrown]

Sorry California, but better you than me.

Great bait and switch of topics but I really don't understand since I don't understand what fair means?

Whats fair share mean?

 

[donbrown]

We should close our boarders and give california back to Mexico!!

That is exactly what many Californians think should happen.

Many more want the state to break up into 3 areas cause some cities take more than they give back to the smaller communities , especially our most scarce natural resource ... water. Agriculture still uses the most water but gets challenged all the time. Parts of Yosemite are restricted so San Francisco can take the water.

California's economy is the eighth largest economy in the world for 2011.

That's if each state of the U.S. were compared with other countries.

As of 2010, the gross state product (GSP) is about $1.9 trillion.

1.9 trillion is 13% of the United States gross domestic product

California has more dairy industry than any other state and generated $47 billion in sales employing over 400,000 people.

California is the world's fifth largest supplier of food and agriculture commodities. The agriculture here is more than twice the size of any other state.

But I must say Illinois does great growing horseradish and Wisconsin a fine job processing horseradish.

Seen any movie stars lately? How bout movie studios, million dollar houses?
Who do you think is number one? How bout the rated X industry? Although Russia is very active tapping market share.

I think only Congress has more small planes than California residents.

Today like most states, Government is the largest industry, with about 2.5 million employees. The second largest industry is Healthcare and Social Assistance which is more local business.

Do you want to talk about what state has the most natural resources like oil? Geothermal?

How bout industry ... ever heard of Silicon valley and how much wealth is created ?

Does California have more than its fair share of homeless, people completely on welfare, the mentally ill ... yep.

California is the richest state in the United States of America with a per capita income of $22,711.

For every 100 employed people in California; 139 people are supported by those 100 employed thru Government programs.

Yet California has contributed on average over 3.65 billion dollars per year for the last twenty years to the federal government than it has received.

 

[AZ800]

Wow football only $500 here it is over $1,500 per student at the public school.

Cheerleader is over 3 grand.

My daughter auditioned for advanced music was accepted and asked for $2800 plus volunteer to set up take down concert hall, drive my SUV, take and pay for meals during road trips, chapperone etc.

Kids are only 6&9 years old. Paying for hs sports?? That's crazy.
My point was not to complain about the cost, just point out the irony of the situation.

 

[donbrown]

"Tale of two boat makers" Let's say an independent American rebel wants to build boats.He wants classy high end boats for everyone.He knows he will have to compromise on the trim-aluminum and stainless vs. sterling and platinum,no big deal. He employs 400 people all of who he wants to have a boat. So he pays a higher wage to his people vs. the other boat builder.All his workers can afford one of the boats on the monthly pay program including the interest. Now there are 400 new boats in the harbor all of which had to have sales tax paid on them and all other applicable fees (the whole list that donbrown mentioned).One day a person from across the country came to the harbor for vacation,seen the boats and had to have one-he bought a boat paid all fees and had it shipped by truck to the local lake where he lived. Many more people seen this and had to have one-a classy high end boat built by Americans and affordable to boot. Now this rebel American is a savvy business man but he's not greedy so he set his goal for 15% profit and sells 10000 boats for $60,000 each and profits $90,000,000 while circulating $510,000,000 of taxable dollars thru the economy.The other guy thinking since he only caters to the rich and his boats hold more status because of the sterling and platinum trim he will go for 30% profit.Therefore he pays his workers less, none of his people can afford a $100,000 dollar boat. Then one day a rich man came in and bought one of the boats cause this boat had status.But people like this were few and far between and so this boat maker could only sell 3000 boats to get his $90,000,000 and then he only circulates $210,000,000 of taxable revenue while paying his workers less who paid less in income tax and he also took away 7000 chances for others(all the ones donbrown mentioned)to circulate revenue. If consumers demand more and can afford to consume more ,and corporations (in this case the two boat builders) have fair business ethics and are not greedy everybody wins. The wealthy have never been the gears that drive the economy its the consumer,the more everybody has the more everybody has. Besides do you want a Yugo or a Rolls Royce-as for me I'm good with a Cadillac.

Great example about opportunity cost but the comparative advantage needs more attention IMHO. Especially between countries today when comparing the efficiency and effective of a government.

If it wasn't for rich people the USA would be gone a long time ago ... why ???

Cause rich people ... actually one rich person bailed out the USA financially 3 times during imminent bankruptcy. After the 3rd bailout this rich guy said no more

This of course caused a crusade to bust up those big industrial revolution giants and created permanent taxation SOLELY on the highest incomes ... those 1% . Plus they regulated them so today comparative advantage has the business on another continent.

1% of the American population owns 34.6% of the country's total wealth, and the next 19% owned 50.5%.

The top 20% of Americans owns about 85%of the country's wealth and the bottom 80% of the population owns 15%

So your gonna tax the money from them? ... General Electric paid no taxes the last couple of years and Warren Buffet is in litigation against the USA for paying too much taxes.

 

[donbrown]

Kids are only 6&9 years old. Paying for hs sports?? That's crazy.
My point was not to complain about the cost, just point out the irony of the situation.

Yep no pay no play. Stuff like uniforms transportation, equipment, insurance for the school, players against liability etc. This doesn't include stuff like mascots, bleachers and the like. We get the money thru fundraising.

Now I'm in a more educated, wealthier school district. "Less fortunate" school districts get this all paid for thru government programs.

One less fortunate school district had the high school built with custom towers of school bells in the front, an agriculture farm, and an olympic swimming pool while a high school (in a wealthier neighborhood) not 30 miles away had the HS bleachers condemed and were denied funds to repair them (in the same school district). The wealthier neighborhood has tried to annex from the school district (at least twice I know of) and requires a distrrict wide democratic vote.

 

[donbrown]

That is an excellent example of how it happens in the real world.
However, I would bet that many Democrats would still fail to follow the point of your example.

today the average Democrat houshold has $6,000 in more wealth than the average Republican household.

More Democrats have become richer and more Democrats in congress have gained more wealth than any time than the past 4 years.

I wonder if its from tithing?