another shaft failure

[Dam Dave]

You really dont think they factored balance into the design of a drive shaft?

with respect to all rotating parts being balanced as a unit ........ NO

Have you never visited a assembly line.........precision does not come to mind

If I had a 2013 Pro I would buy the RKT kit , cheap insurance and I dont see it affecting balance of anything..............

 

[rmscustom]

Depends. Location matters more that weight. The shaft is so long. You have drivers in set locations already... The shaft is factory balanced... I would be curious as to how you guys are compensating for the new balance points by adding weight to this shaft in unspecified locations.

If the factory is balancing the driveshaft why have I never seen hole drilled or weight added to accomplish this?

 

[Tysonh]

You really dont think they factored balance into the design of a drive shaft?

They can hope they can try but its still not %100 when using extrusions and casting. And were talking about a company that could figure out glue never mind have a perfectly true casting. Get real. Don't get me wrong love polaris got 5 four pros myself just no 2013.

 

[mountainhorse]

Balance of the shaft is not an issue for me.

The drivers are not balanced, and the shafts show no indication of being balanced on any one that I've looked at.

The plastic drivers have been trued in the past on the shaft.

That added to the small diameter of the shaft itself... I'm not worried about it..

As many have pointed out above... the formation of ice and snow on the drivers and shaft will throw it off Way more than anything else.

My 2 cents... lots more cents out there.





.

 

[Dam Dave]

If the factory is balancing the driveshaft why have I never seen hole drilled or weight added to accomplish this?

They only put the glue on the light areas.................

 

[Tysonh]

No offense but your fixing symptoms of the problem, that's a band-aid fix. You took the time to design and machine those billet pieces, for the time you have in those you could have machined an entire billet shaft from scratch and solved the entire problem once and for all. Glued together shafts are not the right answer regardless of what any engineer says.

Its hard to build a billet shaft thats light and that cost 70 bucks The polaris shaft will be fixed and my part is a fix in the meantime so guys dont get screwed in the mountains 70 buck is cheap for a mountain rider that just spent 12grand on a sled that he shouldn't ride cause a shaft and doesn't want to pay 800 or more for a heli ride. And as far as machining and time goes clearly you have no clue cause it would take a lot longer and a lot more money to machine and spline a brand new drive shaft.

 

[X2Freeride]

with respect to all rotating parts being balanced as a unit ........ NO

Have you never visited a assembly line.........precision does not come to mind

I visit one everyday when I go to work. They build log splitters and post hole diggers. Before that everyday I went to work I was around one that build Bobcats, and before that one that build Electric cars. Im not an assembler either or a forklift driver.

Your correct in saying that assembly is not a precision operation. However, you are incorrect in thinking that products don't have any precision design or testing. Do you have any idea how many hours of testing the average product goes through from the design stage to the implement stage? Even the most simple products have 100's of hours of testing. We still test log splitters to this day that have a base design that has been in the field for almost 10 years with only very minor changes.

I guarantee that the original design of this drive shaft was designed with balance in mind. Is it perfectly balanced, absolutely not, but it is balanced.

 

[snowmobiler]

its roundish so its kind of balanced

 

[Dam Dave]

I visit one everyday when I go to work. They build log splitters and post hole diggers. Before that everyday I went to work I was around one that build Bobcats, and before that one that build Electric cars. Im not an assembler either or a forklift driver.

Your correct in saying that assembly is not a precision operation. However, you are incorrect in thinking that products don't have any precision design or testing. Do you have any idea how many hours of testing the average product goes through from the design stage to the implement stage? Even the most simple products have 100's of hours of testing. We still test log splitters to this day that have a base design that has been in the field for almost 10 years with only very minor changes.

I guarantee that the original design of this drive shaft was designed with balance in mind. Is it perfectly balanced, absolutely not, but it is balanced.

I know quite a bit about rotating equipment..................

 

[SSABMUD]

It is very nice that we are not analyzing the pistons, cylinders, and oiling system this year! Anybody have a dyno sheet they could post up?

 

[X2Freeride]

Its hard to build a billet shaft thats light and that cost 70 bucks The polaris shaft will be fixed and my part is a fix in the meantime so guys dont get screwed in the mountains 70 buck is cheap for a mountain rider that just spent 12grand on a sled that he shouldn't ride cause a shaft and doesn't want to pay 800 or more for a heli ride. And as far as machining and time goes clearly you have no clue cause it would take a lot longer and a lot more money to machine and spline a brand new drive shaft.

I have more of a clue than you realize when it comes to machining. What do you what to run 3 axis? 5 Axis? Fanuc? Bridgeport? Mazak? Haas? Want to hood a robot up to it to auto load? I can do that too.

I never once brought cost into the equation at all so I have no idea where your money argument comes from or how price is any way valid in this. You spent 12K on a sled. Even if you sold a solid billet shaft for 700 dollars with a built in profit margin you'd more than likely make money hand over fist.

 

[skibreeze]

No offense but your fixing symptoms of the problem, that's a band-aid fix. You took the time to design and machine those billet pieces, for the time you have in those you could have machined an entire billet shaft from scratch and solved the entire problem once and for all. Glued together shafts are not the right answer regardless of what any engineer says.

I think that you are missing their point. They aren't making these for a permanent fix. They are making them as a band aid fix. They are making them so that guys can put them on a shaft that may or may not fail, so guys can continue to ride their sled until Polaris pulls their head out of their ***. There are some guys that want to ride their sled and better their chances of not breaking their shaft and then having to sit on the sidelines for weeks for a replacement.

I don't mind these guys making these parts and I don't blame somebody for buying one. Why do you?

 

[X2Freeride]

I think that you are missing their point. They aren't making these for a permanent fix. They are making them as a band aid fix. They are making them so that guys can put them on a shaft that may or may not fail, so guys can continue to ride their sled until Polaris pulls their head out of their ***. There are some guys that want to ride their sled and better their chances of not breaking their shaft and then having to sit on the sidelines for weeks for a replacement.

I don't mind these guys making these parts and I don't blame somebody for buying one. Why do you?

Im not blaming anyone for buying them. If they want to do it more power to them. I simply proposed a concern regarding the balance of the shaft with the attached pieces.

Its your sled you can fix it however you wish. I dont agree with it as a solution because I simply don't believe in band aid fixes. Why not spend more time and money and fix it once and for all?

 

[Dam Dave]

I visit one everyday when I go to work. They build log splitters and post hole diggers. Before that everyday I went to work I was around one that build Bobcats, and before that one that build Electric cars. Im not an assembler either or a forklift driver.

Your correct in saying that assembly is not a precision operation. However, you are incorrect in thinking that products don't have any precision design or testing. Do you have any idea how many hours of testing the average product goes through from the design stage to the implement stage? Even the most simple products have 100's of hours of testing. We still test log splitters to this day that have a base design that has been in the field for almost 10 years with only very minor changes.

I guarantee that the original design of this drive shaft was designed with balance in mind. Is it perfectly balanced, absolutely not, but it is balanced.

Log splitters and Bobcats..........now those are some high speed equipment...........

 

[ak49er]

IMHO

I get what everyone is saying about ice build up and it's effects on balance, but that ice is building up on a rotating part.

So for the most part it should "balancing itslef" to a certain degree.

This is why you never feel the imbalance but rather the tightness of the track and the "crouching" of your suspesnion as that ice ball increases in diameter.

Unless you stop and a little water drips on one side from the coolers and then freezes up, and then you can feel it.



I balance things somewhat for a living, every electric motor rotor, up to 500hp gets balanced at the plant, every pump shaft, every trubine shaft, to the gram inch....GRAM.

With RPM ranges from 1750 (motors, pumps) to 3600, Gas and steam turbines.

Including the ABB 11DN Rotor which whieghs 38 tons, which is balacned to 13 mils displacement. Now, 38 tons, spinning at 3600 RPM now effectively weighs 9.5 pounds or so on the journal bearing.

Centrifugal forces are amazing.

The PRO has a shaft that I will estiamte to about 10 pounds? spinning at what 8350 RPM?, add a gram to one side at that speed and watch the fun.

I will leave the math to the mathmagicians.

Once again IMHO, and as always, I welcome the argumentt stating otherwise.

Misspelled to hell but I gotta' roll....(fly)

 

[skibreeze]

Im not blaming anyone for buying them. If they want to do it more power to them. I simply proposed a concern regarding the balance of the shaft with the attached pieces.

Its your sled you can fix it however you wish. I dont agree with it as a solution because I simply don't believe in band aid fixes. Why not spend more time and money and fix it once and for all?

Because Polaris will address it under warranty. A person can buy this part and spend 5 or 10 minutes bolting it on and ride with a little bit more confidence until Polaris replaces the shafts.

 

[X2Freeride]

Log splitters and Bobcats..........now those are some high speed equipment...........

No better argument for the current debate?

Im encouraging you to think outside the box on this and figure out the long term solution to your problem. If you don't want to do that its your choice.

 

[Tysonh]

I get what everyone is saying about ice build up and it's effects on balance, but that ice is building up on a rotating part.

So for the most part it should "balancing itslef" to a certain degree.

This is why you never feel the imbalance but rather the tightness of the track and the "crouching" of your suspesnion as that ice ball increases in diameter.

Unless you stop and a little water drips on one side from the coolers and then freezes up, and then you can feel it.



I balance things somewhat for a living, every electric motor rotor, up to 500hp gets balanced at the plant, every pump shaft, every trubine shaft, to the gram inch....GRAM.

With RPM ranges from 1750 (motors, pumps) to 3600, Gas and steam turbines.

Including the ABB 11DN Rotor which whieghs 38 tons, which is balacned to 13 mils displacement. Now, 38 tons, spinning at 3600 RPM now effectively weighs 9.5 pounds or so on the journal bearing.

Centrifugal forces are amazing.

The PRO has a shaft that I will estiamte to about 10 pounds? spinning at what 8350 RPM?, add a gram to one side at that speed and watch the fun.

I will leave the math to the mathmagicians.

Once again IMHO, and as always, I welcome the argumentt stating otherwise.

Misspelled to hell but I gotta' roll....(fly)

The bottom shaft is not going 8350 rpm if your going 40mph its going like 2200rpm

 

[X2Freeride]

Because Polaris will address it under warranty. A person can buy this part and spend 5 or 10 minutes bolting it on and ride with a little bit more confidence until Polaris replaces the shafts.

If this part doesnt void the warranty. Polaris has voided warranty for a sled that had the hood foam removed.

Also with their track record for coming up with timely fixes to problems since I dont know 2005, I wouldn't hold my breath your still waiting for a factory fix for the 800 cfi.

 

[LoudHandle]

Really? Worse than this?

Yes, I see nothing wrong with the factory glued shaft if they had applied the proper ratio of base and hardener and mixed right. These shafts will survive when the glue is applied correctly! Just like Mark Williams' Accu-bond aluminum drive shafts will handle 60% more torque and horsepower than the best steel drive shaft of the same size! It is unfortunate that some moron on the assembly line didn't get the dispenser set up correctly on an unknown number of shafts but they will survive and all these bandaid will not be needed. Check your glue if it is setup you are fine! ride it like you stole it!

I am a welder by trade and this technology will take work away from my peers and I, but it is a proven technology when the joint is engineered correctly and the glue is mixed and applied correctly.

Tysonh
As for the balance issue, I do not ride stock sleds. I buy individual parts and rework every one and build the sled from scratch. Yes I do balance everything even the driveshafts on my Mountain sleds, because I can. If you want to throw your billet parts on your sled so be it. I don't want to argue with you over it. From the spelling and grammar in your post you don't seem very well educated and think you could have given the clamp a tiny bit more thought and not had to make two different pieces, as one could have been a mirror image of the other and been much cheaper to make and eliminated all this balance talk entirely. Would have used less material as well. I do not have a CNC machine at my disposal yet so do what you will with yours. Good luck with your clamp. I would also bet the stub end is forged not cast as you seem to think.