A Service Department Perspective

[gcmci]

So what you're saying is I should double-check the ring gap and head torque on my new updated D8 engine?

You know since the service dept. is only being payed at a discount rate/hours.

Polaris pays shop rate at their flat rate 4.5 hours to do the update,more then enough time to do it right the first time

 

[SmokeyBear]

So what you're saying is I should double-check the ring gap and head torque on my new updated D8 engine?

You know since the service dept. is only being payed at a discount rate/hours.



Hey, look at it this way......At least you guys don't live in a state (AK) that only has "X" number of dealers. "You pay MSRP here, or you can go find it somewhere else." Problem is, there is nowhere else!

My point on warranty work was that there are only 8 hours per day per tech to "sell". A better example of where this is a problem would be an intermittent runability concern at 4-4500 feet that only happens after riding 2-3 hours. How do we diagnose that at the shop at sea level? So after an hour or two of testing (when everything tests within spec) we start swapping parts off a new sled, run it countless times, never actually get a failure, guess that it is the voltage regulator and send you on your way. We have now spent 3 hours and Polaris reimburses 18 minutes with no diagnostic time. I know this is not the owners fault; it is a dealer vs Polaris thing. Believe me I would much rather be able to hold up the "smoking gun" and say here is your problem. What if it does not cure the problem? Now everybody loses. Also there is the next guy waiting in line for bench time.
As far as the updates, we have 1 tech doing them all, with a second tech who has done a few for emergency backup. Our main guy does them accurately. If it gives you peace of mind to recheck his work, it does not hurt my feelings any. It should not be necessary but human beings do occasionally make mistakes and I would be a liar if I said that never happened. On those rare occasions all we ask is that we have the chance to check it out, determine if it is our error and rectify it asap.

 

[Mandic]

Great write up and discussions. I am a business owner, in the sales field. I routinely sell products at a premium price that my customers KNOW they can go somewhere else get it cheaper. Why do they buy it from me? Serivce, I sell it to them and I service it. If you buy a 1/2" impact gun from me today and tomorrow it breaks, I hand you a good one to use while I fix yours or send it out to be fixed. And all you have to do is call and I will be there with that replacement one. What sucks for me is when that impact gun breaks tomorrow, and the customer never calls me until next week. Only to tell me, "That gun is a piece of **** it broke right after you left last week!". "Why didn;t you call me then? I could have had this fixed by now."

I am also a former Mitsubishi Dealership Auto-Technician. Flat-rate, warranty times, and aftermarket parts hassles. Mitsusbishi is TERRIBLE for aftermarket parts. If you have an aftermarket muffler(just a muffler) and your engine blows up, they will likely deny your claim.

In the same respect, I do all my own service and maintenance on my sled, I am plenty qualified to do so. However when my sled was in warranty, it went to the dealer. Not so much because "oh it is free to me", but I knew that I wanted proper records while it was in warranty. I know the game, if my engine blew up a week out of warranty but I had taken it to the dealer for all its proper service and plug changes, etc etc, they would be more able to help me out.

I am loyal to my local dealer. I know I could pay less online, but they know me buy name, and they take care of me. Have I had things I didn't like with them? Yea sure, but it isn't the end of the world. My sled is there right now for some campaign work.

Where the real problem is, is I live in Southeastern Pennsylvania. My dealer is over 5 hours away from where I ride all season long. They aren't much help to me there. My sled broke last year and spent 6 weeks at a dealer I took it to there. I'd have gladly taken it to my dealer, but we didn't have the means to get it home and it would have cost me to bring it home(5 hours of driving with a sled trailer hurts the fuel economy). I was treated like crap at this dealer that I didn't buy it from, and I have since found their repairs to be crap. I will never set foot in their again or send anyone there. I never expected them to stock the parts or anything like that, but they never even picked up a phone. I had to call and check every step of the way. It is the little things...

 

[crf118r]

I don't think it should matter where you bought a sled, you should get the same service at any dealership.
Last year we went out and bought 4 brand new Polaris sleds. We called dealerships throughout the U.P. of Michigan, Wisconsin, and Minnesota. The reason being for looking so many places was because of the sleds we were looking for (it was tough finding a Assault late in the fall). Anyway, we found the sleds we want about 6 hours away from where we are. So getting our sleds serviced at this dealership is very inconvenient. I would have liked to have bought the sleds in the local area but they didn't seem to enthused to want to help us find the sleds we wanted. (You would think when you walk in the door wanting about $40,000 in sleds, a dealership would be all over that in this day and age.) Buying locally would have been a lot nicer when it comes to having warranty work done, buying parts, etc. I understand a dealership wants to help out their loyal customers. So now we often need to do warranty work with this dealership which we didn't buy the sleds from and every time I walk in the door they just seem unhappy to see me. They did my 800 update and just for kicks and giggles we brought my brothers 800 to the dealership we bought it from to have the updates done. We dropped both sleds off the same weekend and we had my brothers back home completed while mine was still sitting untouched. We even made an appointment to have mine done. It wasn't like we just dropped it off on them. The dealership where we bought the sleds has been more than willing to help us with anything. We have even ordered parts through them because the local dealer said they couldn't get them.

The point of the story is that if Polaris wants their customers to be loyal to their product, the customer should get the same service no matter what dealership the sleds were bought from. I shouldn't have to drive 6 hours to have friendly service just because I bought a sled from them. We gave the local dealership a chance to find us our sleds and they failed. I've never been "mean" to any of the employees at the dealership to make them treat us unfairly. I just think that if I own a Polaris, all Polaris dealerships should treat me the same way.

We are not brand prejudice at all. When it is time for a new sled, we will go to which ever dealership is going to be friendly to us down the line when we need help. And I'm not saying I want to walk in the door and get a discount on everything. I just want a dealer who is going to be pleasant to talk to and happy to have our business.

I am not trying to be knocking on Polaris. It is just the only experience I have with buying new sleds. Just my opinion.

There is my rant for the day. Geeze.
Have a good one!

Maybe Poo dealers should be able to (or start doing) dealer trades like the auto dealers do.That might help clear up some of the problems associated with where you actually purchased your sled.

 

[Mandic]

Problem is there doesn't seem to be enough money in them to do dealer trades.

I was in the perfect scenario a few months ago. I found a dealer 4 hours away in PA that still had a brand new 600RR in stock. I wanted it, but it was far away and for me to go only for them to give me crap in trade would have sucked. If my dealer could have dealer traded for it and all I had to do was go get it here, I'd have done it in a heartbeat. But the sled was already marked down 2000 from original MSRP, where does the money come from to pay someone to drive it across state? I mean that isn't a free, or cheap trip. Between fuel and someones time, it would be a few hundred of a trip.

It isn't like car dealers where they just throw the lot kid, or parts runner in a dealer trade and say "hey drive it to that dealer 30 minutes away". They are already paying that guy his hourly rate whether he is doing that or sweeping the parking lot. Same difference to them. The only cost is the fuel to get it there, and that isn't a big deal.

 

[MORSNO]

I think in these lean times we are going through more dealers will need to learn "The Value Of A Customer".

A good dealer will have a sales dept that knows their product, not just reading the sales literature from the counter. A parts department that carries a decent amount of parts or will willingly or order the correct parts quickly. A service department that assembles a new sled correctly and services used sleds as if they are their own. And finally dealer ownership that looks at the entire process to ensure the customer is satisfied.

My local dealer has earned my business through the years by knowing "My Value To Them As A Customer". Their entire process has always worked for me and has provided a fair profit for them in return.

 

[thefullmonte]

Great thread Smokey! Good to get the perspective of the guy turning some wrenches. Hopefully, enough Polaris guys read this and make things better as you mentioned. Here are some similar thoughts I've been having. whew I get long winded too. Some of you may want to grab a coffee.

Since someone brought up MSRP let's talk about that a little bit. Manufactures Suggested Retail Price. Why in the motor sports and automotive industry does this mean nothing? You don't walk into target and negotiate the price on a toothbrush do you? Yet, you are expected to constantly negotiate negotiate negotiate when you buy a sled motorcycle or car. It is honestly the part I hate the most about buying a new Polaris sled or any vehicle. The retail price is supposed to be the price that is fair to the consumer and allows the dealer enough profit to cover their overhead. So, is the retail price too high? The economy seems to be saying it is. Yet, here we are still doing things the same way.

There should be no need for this. The price should be fair right out of the box. No extra charges or fees. Every dealer should have to charge the same price. Much like we are seeing more and more of with the parts/ acc/ apparel side of things.

Also, dealers should have to meet certain criteria. Customer feed back to the manufacture through surveys. Annual inspections and tests of employees and mechanics. Yearly seminars on updates and new products. How knowledge able are the sales staff? How capable are the mechanics?

To make the industry better Polaris can start by getting rid of flat rate and commission. Nobody wants to deal with a pushy salesman who is worried about his cut. And he shouldn't have to worry about putting food on the table all year either. I see so many dealers constantly rolling over sales staff because the sales man can't make a living. I don't want to deal with a new person each time I come in.

Nor do I want to have a guy working on my sled with a hangover and trying to rush through the job to make flat rate so he can get paid. That is half the problem on the assembly line that causes some of these original problems. We don't need things being rushed at the dealer so mistakes are made too. I've worked for a very large dealer before and it made my stomach turn to see the stuff they did to make flat rate. Flat rate fixes what was broke, but doesn't fix what caused it. Nor does it look for prevention of future failures. Which is what we see so much of these days. Most techs can't even find a cause as they were trained to just replace parts. I would like to have some words with the people who originally thought up "flat rate" and "commission". It hasn't helped our industry one bit IMO.

And why are dealers charging over $100 dollars an hour for labor? The mechanic is only getting about $15 of that. Nobody should have to pay that. It is not realistic even with shop expenses. Treat others as you would wish to be treated. Do these dealership owners like leaving a diff. business with their butt puckered? Most people leave the dealership with an empty wallet and a sore backside feeling like they were totally taken advantage of. To add insult to injury, half the time they didn't get the problem fixed anyway.

Remember, in the eyes of the consumer a mechanic is the expert. If they can't fix the problem and the consumer gets charged too much for it. They are left feeling about the same way as spending too much on a poorly designed product. Which is how quite a few Polaris loyal are feeling these days. If you shop at Target and buy that great blender, but something is wrong with it. You can return it and try your luck with something else. As Smokey pointed out this is not an option with a snowmobile. Which is why Polaris and their dealer network need to focus on value for dollar spent.

This is just feedback I get from local customers that come into our store, but I can't even recommend a Polaris dealer that isn't 20 miles away. And there are some 2 miles away. The customer gets treated poorly and doesn't want to shop there ever again. I have a friend that works for a dealer just down the road and I won't shop with him because I was treated poorly there. I still shop with Four Season's Sports Center in Rapid City, SD over 600 miles away! I haven't lived there in 5 years and they still know me by name when I walk in. I always leave there feeling like I was treated fairly.

I know it's hard to stock everything. Sometimes all it takes is the right parts manager to properly stock necessary items. Give your dealer notice so they can get it in quickly for you if they don't have it. Create a relationship with your dealer. And dealers you create relationships with your customers. Don't forget about them once you sold them something. That is a short term recipe for failure that I'm seeing too much of these days. Big volume flashy dealers loose their luster quickly when they burn bridges with their customers.

 

[SmokeyBear]

Wow, the more this goes the more complex it gets...And not one comment that is not useful in some way. Other chat forums I occasionally visit are nowhere near this articulate and helpful. No snide remarks or taking things out of context. I wish now that I had started it somewhere else to get more feedback; i.e. all sleds instead of just Polaris IQ in order to broaden the feedback. Any of the moderators or old time posters know how to do this?

Negotiating a price goes back to the days when consumers were not as educated and did not have easy access to as much information. Way back in the 80's I tried my hand at auto sales. A salesman who could "grind the tits off of" a buyer and "lay them away" was a hero to management and was rewarded with a bigger paycheck. Morally I could not do this so I moved on.
As I mentioned earlier, Saturn tried no negotiations and they are for sale and GM itself is getting gubbmint help so maybe the failure of Saturn to change the way cars are sold cannot be attributed to no negotiation pricing. I bought a used car at a Saturn dealer once and found the process relatively pain free. The price was fair and I eventually put 180k on the car with only one major repair.
The problem is how to change something so ingrained in the industry. Will it take an owner with deep enough pockets and daring to say "Let's try something else." And how long to try? I guess it would depend on how deep the pocket is. And who decides what is a fair price? Percentage, or $xx.00 per unit? Somebody somewhere will always undercut a price, for whatever reason. You can't even say a '09 RMK 800 costs a dealer $xxxx.xx. due to flooring, promotions, rebates and the like. If my store buys a sled in August and another dealer buys one in October we are going to have the cost of 2 months of flooring interest more in the cost than the other guy.
If a dealer committed to trying to make this change how many consumers would vote with their wallet and say "I could have bought this $600.00 cheaper somewhere else but I support what you are trying to do and want you to succeed." It would take an owner with some pretty big balls to take the gamble. It is always simpler to stick to the status quo. So now let's point to the industry people who did dare to do it differently and revolutionize an industry: McDonalds, Henry Ford, the guy who first thought of putting baristas in bikinis...it is the American way! Anybody out there with the means to do it?

 

[thefullmonte]

This thread originated in the Polaris IQ section and we just felt it was to good to keep to ourselves.

 

[Loudisfast]

Wow, do you guys really sit and read all that. you guys are like typing women, blah, blah, blah, blah.

 

[AKSNOWRIDER]

Wow, do you guys really sit and read all that. you guys are like typing women, blah, blah, blah, blah.

this is a great opurtunity to give quality input to dealers to make things better for us...I have given negative rep to two peeps on here..you just became #3..

 

[theultrarider]

It is the little things that matter. I called my dealer here yesterday for parts. Like most, I do bad mouth them from time to time. Mostly because there are times that they even run out of oil and spark plugs!!! But that is not why I am posting here. When I called, they reconized my voice and called me by name. Yes, I spend too much money in there. I asked the parts guy (the owner) to pull a part number and see if he had it in stock. Nope. Well, that part was just a washer/bushing on the rear axle shaft. I know how Poo is, they will have 10 part numbers for basically identical washers. I told Brian I needed x # of 3/4" id washers and x # of 1" washers. He told me he would dig through the bins and call me back in a few minutes. A few minutes later he calls me back and says he has my parts in his hand. By the time I get to his shop, they are sitting on the counter waiting for me with the ticket printed out waiting for me to pay for them. It is this kind of thing that keeps me riding the brand I am, and from shopping online. Like has been said, for shops to stay alive these days, they need to learn what customer service is or they won't be around very long.

 

[AKCoop]

SmokeyBear,

I think you are right, the MSRP should be the fair price. However, competition breeds greed for market share.

My parents ran a yamaha shop (southeast) for years when I was a kid. My dad was the service mgr, mom was the parts/sales mgr.

The first thing my mom did was stock as many aftermarket/factory parts, and riding gear for the machines in the current inventory, and as much as she could for the "popular" bikes. On each new bike sale they made they used the parts and accesories as the "leverage," since there was way more of a profit margin in those items. She would constantly discount (10% above cost) or throw in items to make a sale. My dad "actually oversaw" (not just sit in an office) maintenance. Each item that was repaired, he inspected and corrected any issues as needed. He "trained" techs., and ensured the shop stayed current on training. When an issue arose with a new bike he made sure he (salary worker) was there to help troubleshoot the problem and report any issues to his regional contact. The issues would be resolved in one way or another (loaner bike, etc.) if the wait would be unexceptable. It was treated as if it were my dad's own personal bike. Additionally they would ensure the customer was given discounts, free service or anything else to make up for the "inconvienence."

Although some customers will never be satisfied, most are willing to work with the dealer to a point, BUT must compensated in some way for their time.

To my specific dilemma....I have an 08 D8 snowcheck (163) first 800cfi released. I ride from 0-5500' in Alaska. I paid full MSRP, and got a discount on the extra belt. The sled has had the bog issue after the 100 mile break-in. Since then I have had every flash, topend (09 & 10) tps adjustment, clutch readjustment (waaaayy off) and anything else that was believed to help. The entire time I have been very patient, and forgiving (the chassis is wonderful!)to the dealer. Although until recently, the only guy who gave a damn who I was, was one kid who was my salesman. Nobody else in the shop gave a damn of my name, etc. After finally (2 years of polaris bull****) I went into the shop and raised hell about paying for the stupid SLP can since I'm a low alt. RMK rider, now everyone in the shop knows my name and wants to help! Iguess the squeaky wheel gets the grease.

To top it off, POLARIS warranty claim/customer service number doesn't even give a **** about your complaint. They just log it and redirect you to speak to your dealer. In my opinion they should have someone at the regional office (with some sort of machine knowledge) call the customers back with possible solutions, instead of relying/pushing the issue on the dealer.

My $.02

 

[icr]

And why are dealers charging over $100 dollars an hour for labor? The mechanic is only getting about $15 of that. Nobody should have to pay that. It is not realistic even with shop expenses.

Since someone brought up MSRP let's talk about that a little bit. Manufactures Suggested Retail Price. Why in the motor sports and automotive industry does this mean nothing? You don't walk into target and negotiate the price on a toothbrush do you? Yet, you are expected to constantly negotiate negotiate negotiate when you buy a sled motorcycle or car.

You answered your own question there. There's no money in initial sales, so the dealer has to turn a profit elsewhere, like parts and service. The dealership I worked at the parts guys were making $15 an hour, I'd assume the mechanics were close to double that. I think they charged $85 an hour shop rate...so let's say the mechanic got $25 an hour.

So now the dealer has $60 an hour to cover other expenses, like the electric bill, their accountant, the heat bill, maybe save a couple pennies in case that sled comes back and they eat the cost to satisfy the customer. They've got to pay the yard guy who's pushing snow, keeping the outside units clean, helping load sold units, etc.

But people want to knock $1200 off their new M8 and get a free coat, maybe 10% off all parts for a year, then complain about a high shop rate, or high part prices. You have to let the dealer make money to stay in business.

Don't order your A-arms online to save $60 then complain because you need to replace a broken one so you can ride the fresh snow tomorrow, but the dealer quit stocking them because everyone was buying them cheaper online.

And I'm guilty of this too to an extent. I usually find the cheapest price I can get from a retailer on snowest for a part shipped to me, then go to my local shop, ask how close they can get to that price and buy from them. I paid $100 more for my track locally than I could have got it online, but I still got it for $150 under retail.

 

[Mandic]

You can always find it cheaper online. How? Because online stores aren't your local dealer. Most of the time they don't carry ANYTHING in inventory. They take your order, send it along and get it dropped shipped to you. They don't make the profit margin that the dealer does, but what do they care? They don't have the expense of an inventory either. If there is some dealership selling parts at a discount online, they are doing so at a loss to themselves and just doing it to turn quantity. They are working on the idea that selling 20 of them is better than selling 10. Is it? Yea, but it kills the market in the end.

That is where the MSRP comes in. Same as gas prices. Why does a gas war start? Because someone decides they are gonna cut their own throats and make .01 cent a gallon just so they get the flood of business. Hopefully they sell a lot of cigarettes and sodas and in the mean time hurt the competition. Problem is we are getting more and more like this anymore. Going online and comparing prices. Finding that dealer in east bumble**** that is selling sleds $1500 off MSRP because they don't care to make a dime on them, they just want to move them and count on other stuff. Then going to your dealer and asking them to do the same. What do they do? They are between a rock and a hard place.

And the problem is, only the guy willing to make nothing gets the business anymore. Then after he goes years of not actually turning a profit, he either has to put his prices back up where they should be, or go out of business. I had a competitor who lasted about 9 months. His stuff was often cheaper, by say 5%. However that was because he was making 5% less. He sold plenty but couldn't figure out why he couldn't make money. Out of business.

As a business owner in the sales field, it is really really really hard to not get salty somedays. It does not reflect well on my business when I do, but sometimes I can't help but make comments I shouldn't to customers. When you are buying a sled at a dealer, beating them on price, then beating them up any time they try to make a dime, only to end up buying your parts online anyway. How can they not get salty or bitter?

 

[Super Dave3]

You can always find it cheaper online. How? Because online stores aren't your local dealer. Most of the time they don't carry ANYTHING in inventory. They take your order, send it along and get it dropped shipped to you. They don't make the profit margin that the dealer does, but what do they care? They don't have the expense of an inventory either. If there is some dealership selling parts at a discount online, they are doing so at a loss to themselves and just doing it to turn quantity. They are working on the idea that selling 20 of them is better than selling 10. Is it? Yea, but it kills the market in the end.

That is where the MSRP comes in. Same as gas prices. Why does a gas war start? Because someone decides they are gonna cut their own throats and make .01 cent a gallon just so they get the flood of business. Hopefully they sell a lot of cigarettes and sodas and in the mean time hurt the competition. Problem is we are getting more and more like this anymore. Going online and comparing prices. Finding that dealer in east bumble**** that is selling sleds $1500 off MSRP because they don't care to make a dime on them, they just want to move them and count on other stuff. Then going to your dealer and asking them to do the same. What do they do? They are between a rock and a hard place.

And the problem is, only the guy willing to make nothing gets the business anymore. Then after he goes years of not actually turning a profit, he either has to put his prices back up where they should be, or go out of business. I had a competitor who lasted about 9 months. His stuff was often cheaper, by say 5%. However that was because he was making 5% less. He sold plenty but couldn't figure out why he couldn't make money. Out of business.

As a business owner in the sales field, it is really really really hard to not get salty somedays. It does not reflect well on my business when I do, but sometimes I can't help but make comments I shouldn't to customers. When you are buying a sled at a dealer, beating them on price, then beating them up any time they try to make a dime, only to end up buying your parts online anyway. How can they not get salty or bitter?

Well said, I couldnt agree more.

 

[Chubby]

I think that to fully understand this tread you have to have 1. Owned you own business for at least 8 years and a business that deals with the general public. This will give you a Idea on what it really take to keep the doors open, Untill then Most have not a clue !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[xrated]

I would love a good dealer.

there is a dealer in my town for bikes and sleds. Usually very good to deal with and order stuff fast. This spring I asked abotu wheel bearings for my dirt bike....got the price and said, huh I'll let ya know. Planned to order cheaper ones, was actually surprised they didnt offer me non OEM parts.

Well I was riding that weekend and found out on Saturday that my bearings were shot in the front wheel. I needed the parts then, not tomorrow so I paid the convience charge for those bearings. At the same time my father0in-law needed a radiator cap fro his KTM, they area yami dealer but they gave us one to try and let him return it....but the box, etc couldn't even be torn. WTF?

Now this winter I needed a bearing pulled off my driveshaft. Went to the same dealer, Yami and Cat. My sled is Poo, I called and asked what it would be to press the bearing? 15-20 bucks as it would take 15-20 minutes, sounds like shop rates for a 2 minute job. Then the guy tells me, well we will stop TRYING after 20 minutes, if we can't get it off by then it's not coming off. He said since it's a Poo he can't be sure their tools will get it off. Really it's a freaking bearing.

No biggy, I tried the local Poo dealer in the next town. Walk up to the service counter, guy comes over and I ask what it would cost to press the bearing off my DRIVE shaft. Knew it was bad when he busts out the shop rates manual. Flips through it and can't find a rate to charge. Then he says, "to be honest I'm not sure if we have a press in the back, we send most of our crank work out".......Anyone else confused? I sure was. IF you don't know what I need done, or the parts I'm dealing with, why wouldn't you stick your head into the shop and ask for a mechanic?

Stuff like that is why I choose to order parts, etc online, why should I support poor service? Good thing Bobs Cycle is on my drive north to play.

 

[sled_guy]

Online is a fact of the world we live in. If local businesses can't survive because of online sales then that is the new reality. If local buyers are willing to give up what the local business offers to buy it online then that is the new reality.

I don't use my local dealer service department unless they call me because of a recall on my sled. I don't buy OEM parts any more unless there is no aftermarket option... the OEMs have gotten stupid expensive on their parts. And it isn't about "keeping the doors open". I've complained about OEM parts prices before, I'm not going in to it again here.

If the dealer sells aftermarket parts at suggested retail then I'll buy them from them. If they don't stock or won't order the aftermarket parts I buy them from another source.

I gave up thinking my local dealer would have something in stock a couple of years ago... funny, that dealer went out of business. But the dealer 30 minutes north of me nearly always seems to have the part in stock when I need it and their business is doing dang well... I see a pattern.

I've owned businesses, ran businesses, and even shopped in a couple of businesses. I can garantee that the death nail for a business is if you give the customer that just walked in your door the opportunity or more damaging the 'requirement' to go somewhere else to buy something. Chance are, if they can buy it somewhere else, they aren't ever coming back to you.

sled_guy

 

[xrated]

good points on the guys doing the work Monte.

I know it's not always the case, and maybe not the norm, but I know a dealer(the only one within 30 miles) in my hometown area, where I seriously doubt the credentials and skills of the guys working the shop. I only say this because I have known those guys since I was little, and as far as I can gather they never had much past what the HS offered in shop class.

Not really what you want working on your brand new sled, or in my case my old sled. If I have a choice between a guy who took small engines in high school and myself(who never took shop classes), odds are pretty good I'm going to tackle the job myself and learn something. I know this particular dealer put a brand new 4 stroke Merc on my cousins boat a few years back....he had an old 80s 2 stroke Evinrude before. Somehow the guys doing the install thought it was OK to reuse the old electrical harness.....yep 1 month later I was towing my cousin back to shore after he had a fire start in the harness.

I think if dealers make sure they have good workers, and the general population knows the guy spinning a wrench is Honda, Cat, Poo, whatever certified and current, they would deal with higher costs, etc, just knowing that if you need work it's good work.