2009 Dragon 8 163" has arrived

[Ron]

Finally got enough snow for a break in ride today, rode 70 miles on logging roads as much as 14" powder on an old base. After about 40 miles I spent a little time looking for the stumble reported by some-mine has instant throttle response at all speeds. No bog, no hesitation.
Even with extra oil in the tank, the sled is pulling more R's than my 08 did with the only change a port job and milled head. My weights are almost a gram heavier and pulling 150 more R's first tank of gas vs end of season on the 08.
The exhaust valves seem to open at about 7600-7700 RPM's, quite a bit higher than I expected. As I recall the 08's open below 7000. I didn't detect anything adverse with the higher opening level. The transition was smooth unless I eased slowly into the higher R's then I could feel a surge as the valves opened.
As mentioned earlier the belt side clearance on my sled was excessive so I reduced it to .015. This raised engagement by almost 800 RPM (compared to last year) -by the end of the day engagement was down about 400 & engagement was smoother. Don't ask me for exact #'s, I didn't spend much time on it, just noticed it was high. When it does engage the tach jumps making an accurate reading dificult. Conclusion-.015 is too close for my clutch setup but may be perfect after another ride or two. As you adjust the shims under the spider the position of the weight on the roller changes so that the weight has less leverage (in this case). Result is more R's to create the force necessary to move the weight and engage the clutch.

 

[TEC800]

Ron - do you have the orange springs in the exhaust valves or the pink ones?

 

[Ron]

Ron - do you have the orange springs in the exhaust valves or the pink ones?

I have the stock orange springs vs pink in the 08's....I'm going to stick with the orange. I assume that Polaris has a good reason for the change...maybe a better match to the torque curve of the motor, &/or better economy. With the pink last year it seemed that cruising at trail speeds, R's were high enough that the EV's were open at times.
Another factor is the solenoid's function-until it closes valves can't open. It stays open under certain conditions leaving the EV's closed or letting them open sooner. Exhaust temp, R's & TP factor into how the ECU controls the solenoid function but Polaris doesn't give specifics-what temp, what R's, what TP? It's possible that the EV's open sooner at full throttle than at cruising speeds. (If at WOT the ECU closed the solenoid sooner than at part throttle.)
Dealers may know the logic for the EV spring change, it wasn't likely done without a reason.

 

[fraufarm]

how much oil did you get in your EV little catcher container?

 

[Ron]

how much oil did you get in your EV little catcher container?

Not much, looks like it will take several rides between changes, at least 5 or 6. I'll measure it after a couple more rides and let you know.

 

[CO 2.0]

I got 3 rides in (80 miles) and my exhaust valve catch container only has the bottom of the container layered in oil. Not much by any means. We are talking 1.75" diameter container bottom covered with ~.10" thick of oil. Definitely make sure the opening at the top of the container has a big enough opening to let out the smoke/fumes...

 

[Ron]

I got 3 rides in (80 miles) and my exhaust valve catch container only has the bottom of the container layered in oil. Not much by any means. We are talking 1.75" diameter container bottom covered with ~.10" thick of oil. Definitely make sure the opening at the top of the container has a big enough opening to let out the smoke/fumes...

The amount of oil may increase a little but I agree it won't be something that needs changed frequently. Pictures you posted of your busted sled kept me on the trail the other day. Hope it's back in the snow soon.
I forgot to mention, the powder coated (black) Better Boards work great. I was surprised how much snow still accumulates but pushes right through the openings and doesn't stick to the boards. I sprayed mine with some Rainex, that might help a little too?

 

[CO 2.0]

Yeah got her all back together last night. Got the ski alignment perfect. No damage/bends to the bulkhead or mounting points at the bulkhead so that is definitely a relief. Gonna take it easy until we get another big dump here. I don't have $1000 to spend on every ride lol. I agree the Better boards (black) worked so well for me the last couple rides in the deep. Only place it builds up is over the rear suspension bracket where there is no hole. I rarely ever stand back that far though so no big deal. Might try the rainX on that spot and see if it does anything the next ride out. Hope you guys get a big dumping soon Ron

on a side note: this thing is so much easier to throw around over my old edge. I should have gone with the 163...

 

[Johanw1978]

ron do you run whit out the t stat now ?

 

[Ron]

ron do you run whit out the t stat now ?

Yes, basically have the body but removed the tstat. I still have the stock one so can still go back. I'm waiting until I get in some deep stuff boondocking to see if it'll hold enough water temp. I'll post some follow up info in a week.

 

[sldgy]

how much oil did you get in your EV little catcher container?

OK, I need to ask, what the HE!! is the EV catcher container and what am I supposed to with or to it? Hasn't been enough snow to try my dragon out but Starting Line seems to think it will rock.

 

[AKSNOWRIDER]

OK, I need to ask, what the HE!! is the EV catcher container and what am I supposed to with or to it? Hasn't been enough snow to try my dragon out but Starting Line seems to think it will rock.

Sledgy, some of the guys put a small plastic bottle in the tub to route the exhaust valve vent hose into so it wouldnt leak oul all over underhood...

 

[sldgy]

Sledgy, some of the guys put a small plastic bottle in the tub to route the exhaust valve vent hose into so it wouldnt leak oul all over underhood...

thank you for the comeback and info, makes perfect sense now

 

[Ron]

Update

I promised an update on some of the "new things" I tried for the first time this year. This seemed to be the year for endless powder in our region.

Carls Porting-Very pleased with engine performace compared to my 08 Dragon. Running 2 grams more primary weight this year. Other than the porting/head changes & ECU remap everything else is the same. There were also minor changes in the sled in stock form so this comparison may be slightly skewed by those changes. Carl's has a cyclinder exchange program so you don't need to wait for the porting itself. I am running non ethanol premium fuel.

2Cool dash vent-I wasn't happy with the performance in deep powder. By design the vent has a porus screen with a fine screen underneath. The "pet proof" type porus screen instantly plugs with snow and can't be wiped off like the stock Polaris screen. This is a great vent but it needs the fine screen on the outside.

SLP Powder Valves (airbox)-best mod ever for powder, lets your sled breathe even when all intake vents are plugged. Over the hood powder all day and not one issue when all vents plugged. I only put one valve on my sled, come with a pair, seemed to add enough air.

Thermostat-Running without the thermostat in very cold powder conditions, I did not feel any low end bog with an engine that is very cool. Removing the thermostat adds a little top end power but the concern was that the sled might run so cool when buried in powder that there would be a rich condition. No negative observed-I left the crown on my Thermostat, just removed the guts. Couldn't see engine coolant temps or any other part of my dash so don't know actual temps.

So far no issues with the catch bottle for the exhaust valve solenoid drain. Very little oil, a few drops of water, the gap behind the bumper lets the nose fill with powder. Since the hood pivots in this space I am going to build a dam with pet screen about an inch back of the opening. The large hood screens also let a lot of powder into the engine compartment with present snow conditions. I don't think this will be a big issue with normal snow, didn't have this issue last year. Early season snow has been low moisture fuzz.
Tip in Throttle bog-I tried to find a bog as some have described in previous threads. My sled has no bog, instant throttle response same as last year. Wonder if it's not more of a setup or low altitude issue rather than the exhaust valves or injector transition. Word on the street is that Polaris has some new 2009 fuel maps out for testing.

 

[Garrett]

I love your mods

but removing the thermostat, is really a bad idea...

 

[akrevrider]

Thank for the update Ron. Great info.. Will help me in the mods & tuning on my 09 D8.

 

[Ron]

Clutching

Update-My sled is fantastic, it rips, I couldn’t be more pleased….
Weather in SW Idaho has been strange to say the least. November snow melted & my first ride in mid December was all fuzz. Soon we had 5-6’ of fuzz, no bottom, then it turned to rain and mush through New Years. So long story short I had 103 miles on my sled at year end vs 580 the year before.
As noted earlier, I run a clutch kit from Carl’s that worked well last spring on the 2008’s they ported. But I have made several changes to my sled from stock, including a reduction of belt side clearance by .046”-this in itself changes clutching. Early season, my sled ran well, turning 8350, but it didn’t seem to shift out in powder. Ran hard on the trail but was “flat” in deep snow & it seemed to trench rather than “hook up”. In late December Jack Struthers gave me another set of weights to try (+2g) and clutching felt good but by then snow had turned to mush. Back from a trip last week, so my first ride in 2009 was Thursday and Friday. As I left the parking lot at 6000’ I knew the clutching was very, very good, but what about high elevation? Most good riding in this area is 7000’-8500’. Good snow conditions now, packed powder, track running 8-12” deep. Ran 6 miles of trail to a play area & checked my clutches, very cool and belt running 1/4'” from the top in the drive clutch so getting full shift. We did some tree riding, boondocking, some climbing through different drainages, checked again still cool, getting excited, still pulls good, but R’s a little low. Feeling the engine torque now, pulls like a tractor.
Stopped at a high mtn lake, 7060’, untracked, did some drag racing-200-300 yards. My “benchmark” sled has been a bud with a mod Edge 800, rebuilt over the summer and one of the fastest 8’s around-every lightweight part including carbon fiber hood. His sled has an SLP single, Carl’s engine work- heads, ported, tunnel ported, carbs bored, Carls clutching and he recently added a new Polaris 2.4” track. Even after taking 25 lbs off my sled his is still 15 lbs lighter, he is 15 lbs heavier so an even match up, track & rider. In a drag race he would pull my 2008 Dragon 1 or 2 lengths. I pulled him so far Thursday that he used his nitrous to catch me. When we stopped he accused me of slipping in an 860 kit. (Other sleds in the group 2007 Dragon, 2008 Dragon, 2008 XP, not even close.) My clutches still very cool and my mood is getting better….beautiful day & sled still rips @ 7000’ but what about 8000’?
During the day we rode to an elevation of about 8350’, R’s down to 8150 but still pulling hard. Mid day got to a hill with a NE face, good snow, that I like to use to test backshift & suspension setup, about 7700’ elevation. Sled pulled hard, no wheelie, R’s about 8150 and zero issue with backshift. Pleased with the Holz suspension in all conditions. Steering a little too aggressive so I may reduce pressure in rear shock &/or change back to stock Gripper ski.
Happy with the sled but still wondering if it would run better at higher R’s??? Trying to get R’s up a little so switched to the 2nd angle (a 40 degree cut) on the Carl’s helix day 2. No real testing, but it seemed faster on hardpack, not as good off trail-“seat of pants”. This 2nd angle will likely be very good in spring snow conditions, should have increased R’s but didn’t.
Water temps-no thermostat-checked a few times and saw temps ranging from 88 degrees to 105-coolest running down the trail at 6500 R’s. I didn’t check during hill climbs so it probably runs higher. Ambient temps ranged from 10 degrees in the AM to 34 degrees afternoons. Friend on a 2008 Dragon with thermostat ran about 125. I’ll probably put it back in later, takes a long time for engine warm up.
Sled now has 240 miles. I plan to experiment to see if I can gain a few R’s without losing performance. If it wasn’t for the tach reading, I would be completely satisfied. Maybe the torque curve on my engine is matched to the lower R’s but I won’t know for certain until I tweak clutching a little more. Bottom end performance is great, looking for some more mid and up. I consider my clutching to be dialed and the Carl’s port job delivered the goods. If there’s any more performance from minor clutching changes I’ll consider it a plus.
Unexpected bonus-Running the heavier weights had some welcome benefits.
First-Lower R’s cruising-this increased fuel efficiency and reduced oil consumption. I used 1 gallon less gas than the stock 2008 Dragon 8 and 2 gallons less than the Edge 8.
Second-the symptoms of “engine braking” went away completely. With the lighter weights, if my hand slipped off the throttle it was like putting on the brake. I took more than one tumble last year. Now the drive clutch releases and the sled coasts-I like this a lot!
Reminder-my 2008 with SLP single would not have pulled this clutching, IMO. So I’m not suggesting that anyone riding at elevation try this without the total package and clutch mods. It’s not all about RPM either, getting the clutches in sync is not easy, but still the key!

 

[akrevrider]

Thanks for the tuning update Ron

It is much apppreciated and is help giving me some ideas on what direction to take on my sled.

 

[harrysmith500]

got my 2 dragons today.. this is my buddy sitting on one of them.
They looks so innocent before you start modding the crap out of them.

 

[EburgBrandon]

I bought a pack of the bottles that are approved to take liquids onto an airplane and just wrapped one with some heat tape. I checked it after each of the first four rides and got about two drops. I didnt check it for another 4 or 5 and on started to notice some really bad stumbling in the mid-range. I decided to check the bottle since it is the only other "motor mod" besides my can. The bottle was a bit more than a quarter full

Is it possible I did any detrimental damage? I understand how a exhaust valve works and its function...I am just not very keen on the polaris valves.

Thanks guys and thanks for the great posts Ron!