2009-2011 Diamond Drive Bearing Failure

[Coldfinger]

Mhanson - did you use regular hardware store washers for shims? How thick each and did you stack washers to get the overall thickness needed?

My 10 track also runs closer to the tunnel on the DD side.

My concern about shimming is that it may compromise the strength of the mounting point/tunnel on the brake side.

I wish someone made a metal gasket type shim for the brake side. Anyone make this??

 

[newtrout]

The bearing rep I spoke with said he would not recommend packing a bearing with grease because it could cause the bearings to slide rather than roll and it could cause the seals to become dislodged and there is always the risk of damaging the seal.

Prior to hearing that I was planning to do the same but now I'm probably not going to pack it.

The OEM bearing Peer 6203 RLD does not have a (2) in the number so I believe it depends upon the manufacturer as to what indicates 2 seals.

Interesting. There are an awful lot of people out there who have been doing it for a lot of years. Not sure how it could be harmful, considering they come with grease in them already; maybe if you tried to packed them 100% full? I usually blast out the cheap crap they come with using brake cleaner. It's amazing how rough and noisy a brand new high-quality bearing can be with no grease. To each their own. No ill effects in my case.

Talk to Curt at Fastrax in Puyallup, WA. I believe he is shimming the brake side to fix the issue. Not sure if he's using washers or making a shim.

 

[stcatman]

my bearing looked good

took mine apart today, bearing was good, changed it any way, went with a skf 5203 , now waiting on a gasket, 09 M-1000 at 500 miles

 

[RickM]

Still many questions being asked

There are still many questions being asked about the diamond drive bearing failure, so I thought I would bring this back to the top just in case some new people needed information from this post. Hope it helps out. RickM

 

[skidooboy]

last week i installed the 4203 bearing in a 2011 m8 HCR. i did this for a buddies new sled, as a preventative measure. took about 45 minutes, most of the time explaining how primaries and secondaries work together to, transmit power to the DD then the drive axle, and on to the track. the 4203 went on like BUTTA.

i think this is the easiest option for the 2010-2011 m series dd upgrades. v.s machining the shaft shoulder. ski

 

[RickM]

TTT

TTT

 

[Dartos]

Good information. I recently had my 2011 M8 serviced and the bearing was bad. It took out a couple of gears from the chunks floating around. Cutler's took care of it under warranty and I paid for the better bearing.

 

[Brett Slagle]

Has anyone seen the service bulletin from Cat regarding the 2010 years? They say "The ring gear bearing may not be pressed fully into place causing excessive side load of bearing part #2602-108." The ring bearing is part number 1602-980. My brothers 2010 M8 has been through two DD's now on warranty because of bearing 2602-108 failing. This is the bearing that people are replacing with the wider one. His sled is at the dealer now and I spoke to the mechanic that confirmed that the ring gear was not pressed on fully in the DD he ran this year (which was a full warranty DD from cat last year). There is roughly a 1/16'' gap when there should be none.

The interesting part about the bulletin is that it has a caution note: "Only use bearing 2606-108 (the stock bearing) for this application, use of a wider bearing will cause damage."

My dealer will not install the 5203-2RS bearing because of this bulletin and with it being a brand new warranty DD. I am wondering if Cat is correct in saying that if the ring gear bearing is pressed on correctly, the stock bearing is good to run.

There is no bulletin for the 2009 sleds, so I guess there ring gear bearings were pressed on correctly. My dad has a 2009 with all stock bearings and it is running fine.

I am unsure what to do at this point. Listen to Cat, Listen to BDX, listen to SnoWest... I was going to put the 5203-2RS in both sleds this summer and can still do so, but now that Cat says it may cause damage, I don't know if I should. The 2009 has no remaining warranty and the 2010 will be out in a couple months, before the snow falls.

Thoughts?

Brett

 

[troyburt]

Has anyone seen the service bulletin from Cat regarding the 2010 years? They say "The ring gear bearing may not be pressed fully into place causing excessive side load of bearing part #2602-108." The ring bearing is part number 1602-980. My brothers 2010 M8 has been through two DD's now on warranty because of bearing 2602-108 failing. This is the bearing that people are replacing with the wider one. His sled is at the dealer now and I spoke to the mechanic that confirmed that the ring gear was not pressed on fully in the DD he ran this year (which was a full warranty DD from cat last year). There is roughly a 1/16'' gap when there should be none.

The interesting part about the bulletin is that it has a caution note: "Only use bearing 2606-108 (the stock bearing) for this application, use of a wider bearing will cause damage."

My dealer will not install the 5203-2RS bearing because of this bulletin and with it being a brand new warranty DD. I am wondering if Cat is correct in saying that if the ring gear bearing is pressed on correctly, the stock bearing is good to run.

There is no bulletin for the 2009 sleds, so I guess there ring gear bearings were pressed on correctly. My dad has a 2009 with all stock bearings and it is running fine.

I am unsure what to do at this point. Listen to Cat, Listen to BDX, listen to SnoWest... I was going to put the 5203-2RS in both sleds this summer and can still do so, but now that Cat says it may cause damage, I don't know if I should. The 2009 has no remaining warranty and the 2010 will be out in a couple months, before the snow falls.

Thoughts?

Brett

my 2009 bearing with 1600 kms on it was toast i just caught it in time! change out the 2009 to the wider bearing and i think people were saying the 2010's needed some machining. but i have heard that people had some good luck on the 2010's and 2011's with the 4203-2rs its a way better bearing and it is the same width as stock. but if you read everything in this thread you will change out the bearings for sure!

hope you get it figured out

by the way i changed out my stock bearing at 1600 km's and now have 3800 km's on my sled and the 5203-2rs bearing is like new!

 

[Coldfinger]

Troy- maybe not referring to the same bearing? The one people are replacing is a 6203. I replaced with the same 6203 in my 2010 but watching to see what others are doing and having success with.

 

[troyburt]

Troy- maybe not referring to the same bearing? The one people are replacing is a 6203. I replaced with the same 6203 in my 2010 but watching to see what others are doing and having success with.

yeah i am aware of that, i replaced my 6203 with a 5203 and have put 2200 km's on my machine and its still looks like new! the 6203 after 1600km's was falling apart. on the 2009 machine you can just replace with 5203 and it fits nicely. but on 2010 and 2011 they say the 5203 in tight so some people replaced it with a 4203 which is a angular side load bearing and people are having good luck with that.

i'm pretty sure i'm talking about the same bearing that you are talking about.

correct me if i am wrong

 

[Coldfinger]

Sorry Troy, I just realized it was Brett's quote cause I didn't look close enough.

No, haven't heard of that one but I am not doubting it. I had to look at the parts fiche to see which bearings were in question.

That is an interesting possibility.

When I pull my cover this season I'll definitely check that bearing to see if it is pressed on all the way.

Brett - I agree. I wonder what the final solution will be and that is why I stayed with 6203 for now.

 

[Coldfinger]

I know that the claim is that the 6203 is a sealed bearing because it sits in a pocket and theoretically will not receive enough lube if it were an open bearing.

I can't prove this but it seems to me that the bearing begins to fail, knocking out 1 or both seals in the process. Once the seals are gone, it seems like the bearings may run a long time. Maybe this is because now they can receive lubrication from the chaincase oil?

I base this on the fact that not many people have reported here that have had total failure. Most have discovered partial failure only upon disassembly.

A few people went with an open sided bearing. How are these working out?

 

[E Money]

Sorry guys, i am a dd virgin as well and if you dont mind can you direct me to where i can take apart and replace this bearing or should i take in to dealer. will this be under warranty

 

[silverram323]

1st things 1st, become a premium member so you can read the forum. All the info you need is all ready there, I have done several write ups.

 

[E Money]

2009 M8 bearing update

Not sure if it is valuable info or not but thought I would post. I just had the DD bearing replaced in my 2009 M8 153. I used a BDX 5203 bearing and it fit perfectly in my sled, no machining needed at all. The 6203 bearing that came out of the DD (& spacer) were still in very good condition and showed no signs of breakdown.

My sled only has 464 miles on it and is running a Slp y pipe, pie & mbrp can along with reeds so not a ton of mods. Took one hour in the shop and is peace of mind to know my sled will run well for a long time.

 

[kidwoo]

Just pulled mine out on a 2010 M8 I just picked up last week. Sled has around 1400 miles and the bearing is absolutely toast. It still rolled smoothly and felt snug, but one seal was off, cage was completely wrecked and a few balls missing. Into the planetary now to see where they went. The gear surfaces look good, not pitted or anything.

Serious props to all the guys who have posted info on how to deal with this. Very much appreciated.

Off to the machine shop tomorrow!

 

[Sergeant HCR]

I just hauled my DD out and took it apart on my workbench. With 700 miles on the sled, the verdict was NOT BUSTED. Either way, I have a 3203 ready to go in. I took some pics so I'll post them when I get a chance.

I recommend taking the entire DD out of the sled. It made for an easier attempt to take the cover off the DD case and a better chance to salvage the gasket. My gasket was stuck on in places so I used a knife to separate those spots. I had my skid out anyway for a shock rebuild so it wasn't any extra effort.

I'm glad I took it apart to check and even if I knew beforehand it was not busted, I would have still replaced it.

It took me about 30-40 minutes in total minus 5 minutes trying to find enough socket extensions to get at that 16mm bolt on the brake side lol

 

[kraftymike]

This is why I believe the machining is necessary. Seems like everyone is getting different instructions on what to do when they talk to BDX.

This is off my 2010 M8. This was the OEM single row bearing at 400 miles. Tap dancing on the mine-field as you can see.

Ordered up the 5203 double row from BDX and put it in without machining the track shaft. Everything went back together and fit perfectly, so I ran it for another 400 miles. Opened it back up just to check on things and found shinnies in the DD oil. I couldn't find anything that in the case that didn't look right. The new 5203 was still complete w/both seals in place, but this is what I found inside when i cut it apart. You can see the effects of the side loading on this inner race. This bearing would not have lasted much longer.

For this season, I have completely rebuilt the DD and replaced all the internal bearings as well as the caliper side bearings too. I have machined the .065" off of the DD end of the track shaft as recommended by BDX. My machinist told me the track shaft was some of the hardest material he has ever turned so I would certainly recommend taking it in to the pro's.

 

[Sergeant HCR]

Ok, I'm sure I did something wrong because given the length of this thread and the talk of machining, cover issues, different tunnel widths etc, this job went very smoothly. I'm to the point the cover is placed back on the case but not bolted yet. It seems to be on there perfectly. I picked up a pittman arm puller to get the bearing off and then just used a hammer and the right sized socket to smack it on. With the shim removed, the new bearing seems perfectly flush with the top of the shaft. It went on pretty good too. I can't remember who had the great pics with instructions but thanks! That helped big time.