15" wide cammo 162 x 3"

[mountainhorse]

From what I'm hearing... the track price will be comparable to the current 16" wide versions. The street price will be around $1000 for the track.

Drivers... about $250

Drop an roll.. about $1000 plus install.

Your approx cost when you are all done will be about $2500 US dollars not including labor.

Installing a Drop and roll will void the sled warranty overall... I'm told that cutting into the chassis and changing to a track that will place significantly more load on the drive train will void the warranty.... So you will have to weigh the pros & Cons in your decision to do this carefully.

This new design shown in glassman's pic and my dwg above... will only be avail in the 15" wide 162" length... If you want a 16" wide... The same model that was available this year is what you will get in both 162 and 174" lengths... which will not be made with the "drum mold process".

 

[winter brew]

I will do some careful measuring on our '12.....we were told a 3" would not fit in an XP 3 years ago but tried it anyway.....it works great and now everyone is doing it! The numbers didn't add up on the XP either...I'm sure someone out there has tried it?? Or will try it
Even if you have 1/16" of clearance like the XP it will probably be fine....or trim 1/16 or 1/8 off the tip if needed??

 

[mountainhorse]

Paul... Just did a 2010 XP...TONS more room in there than a PRO RMK...

1/16" tip clearance.... Are you serious?

Making something "FIT" and having proper clearance for the track so that you are not loading the clutches and robbing power that should go to the track...that is another thing. Plus, the secondary gets very strange feedback from the track with that little clearance.

The goal would be to do the install right... not just to get it to "fit" IMO.

Did a 7 tooth driver / 3" paddle combo with the 3" paddle on the XP last season... This season, with no other changes besides the Avid extended chaincase... Huge difference in the performance of the sled... especially in non "blower/sugar" powder snow like Scott has stuck in the tunnel above.

Hey..... don't get me wrong.. I'm all for having a cheaper alternative to do anything.... I'd just like to see people go into this with eyes-wide-open.

I'm interested in seeing what you come up with.

No problem with an extended chaincase to get it to fit... I just hate to move the driveshaft down that much in the sled and needing to also drop the front mounting point of the bolt location in the tunnel for the front swing arm of the rear-suspension that much in order to clear the track.... lots to consider with this.

 

[winter brew]

I know what you're saying Eric....when we first did it, and I saw the small clearance I shook my head and felt the track would be coming off after 1 ride. I predicted plugging with snow and a dozen other reasons why it would not work or work good....I was wrong!
No plugging, no loss of track speed, no rubbing, no track contact except the same areas on the sides where the stock track rubs. Been doing this for 3 years now with zero issues on dozens of sleds. In fact, with the lugs being that close there is no opportunity for snow build up....with shorter lugs the snow is allowed to build up (as in your pic) which essentially proves zero clearance as the track carves it's own slot in the ice...plus the added weight of snow/ice. If you are thinking of the old "air pressure build up" from lack of clearance, I can guarantee that is 100% myth....there is no way for pressure to build in there. Have done testing on that in my other line of work.
Not saying that there would not be an issue with that little of clearance on a Pro chassis, but there is only one way to find out....if it fits at all of course.
No time to measure tonight...but if you say it's less clearance than a XP then there is no way it will fit for sure.

 

[winter brew]

Eric, do you know if the Doo and Poo 2.86 8t drivers are the same diameter where the track belt lies? Doo looks to be 6.8". Looking at the 2 sleds side by side the Pro appears to have the same clearance (or slightly more directly above the drivers) as the XP even with a track that is .15" taller from driver to lug tip. If I had to guess, I would say the 3" will fit with Avid drivers....a little smaller then the Wahl's.
7T avids are 6.1" OD.

 

[4Z]

I ride with a guy that has 1/16" clearance with his 3" on '12 E-rect Doo and it works VERY well.

 

[Sheetmetalfab]

Have to agree with winterbrew

Air can flow freely within the paddles my tunnel always has enough ice to almost contact the track.

 

[mountainhorse]

Like Paul said... only one way to find out.

Let us know how it works.

The 2013 and the 2011/12's have the same lug tip clearance... same tunnel...same driver outer dimensions... same track...same driveshaft location.

I've only heard of those with an extended chaincase do the 3" install on the PRO...Anyone with a 3" on JUST 7 tooth drivers on a 2011/2012 PRO RMK out there?

 

[mountainhorse]

I've installed the AVID 7 tooth drivers with the 2.5" 9174M track (3" pitch) on a 2012 PRO... there was just about 3/8" clearance at the tightest spot using wood "feeler gauges" milled to thickness to check.

Paul, how did you measure the 3" pitch 7 tooth avid drivers for the Pro RMK shaft... across the flats or across the major diameter?

Check out the roof of any hard ridden pro and you will most likely find skid marks on the tunnel roof.

I'm not worried about air pressure... but pumping losses as you try to pump a lot of snow through a small opening takes away from the gains of a longer paddle IMO...

My general point is... reduce the size of the radius of the driver by .3 - .4" and increase the track size by .6"... and you will have less clearance than the stock track.

This one has been hashed over countless times in many threads here... In the end... run what you like and have fun.

 

[mountainhorse]

Paul... I believe that PPD makes both drivers for the factory XP and the RMK's. I think they are the same outside diameter.

 

[diamonddave]

I know what you're saying Eric....when we first did it, and I saw the small clearance I shook my head and felt the track would be coming off after 1 ride. I predicted plugging with snow and a dozen other reasons why it would not work or work good....I was wrong!
No plugging, no loss of track speed, no rubbing, no track contact except the same areas on the sides where the stock track rubs. Been doing this for 3 years now with zero issues on dozens of sleds. In fact, with the lugs being that close there is no opportunity for snow build up....with shorter lugs the snow is allowed to build up (as in your pic) which essentially proves zero clearance as the track carves it's own slot in the ice...plus the added weight of snow/ice. If you are thinking of the old "air pressure build up" from lack of clearance, I can guarantee that is 100% myth....there is no way for pressure to build in there. Have done testing on that in my other line of work.
Not saying that there would not be an issue with that little of clearance on a Pro chassis, but there is only one way to find out....if it fits at all of course.
No time to measure tonight...but if you say it's less clearance than a XP then there is no way it will fit for sure.

After doing a drop n roll on my Dragon last year based on the talk about the sled not having enough track lug clearance, I decided to start comparing this area between the track and tunnel with a couple of stock Dragons and a couple of stock Pros' I ride routinely ride with. During water breaks, I occassionally flipped the stock Dragons and Pro's up on their sides along with mine (D&R Dragon) to inspect the area between the lug tips and the blukhead/tunnel and compare.



What I have found and continue to find EVERY time is that the added area is allowing for some huge amounts of snow and ice to stick to the bulkhead/tunnel. The distance between the lug tip and the snow and ice sticking is about 1/8"-1/16" on my sled AND exactly the same on the other sleds that have very little lug tip clearance.


The problem is I am now packing around a bunch of extra snow and ice which is dead weight while the non D&R sleds have very little snow and ice sticking do to their tight clearance.

 

[mountainhorse]

Late night here... waiting to talk to family in Iraq tonight.

Measured the Avids compared to the stock PRO RMK drivers.

The Avid 7 tooth drivers are a full .40" smaller in RADIUS than the Stock PPD Polaris 8 tooth PRO RMK drivers. That is more than I thought it would be but not more than the increase in the lug height.

Running the 3" lug paddle with 7 tooth Avids will decrease the clearance from stock by .20 inches minimum...Assuming that the track belting is no thicker on the new 3" lug track compared to the Polaris series 5.1 track.

That's getting pretty tight IMO.

Looks like it will "FIT" but will have about 1/4" less clearance than the stock track.

 

[mountainhorse]

Dave..

Exactly why I will be sheeting the inside of the tunnel at the front with UHMW or teflon from the fwd end of the coolers to the exit from the tunnel... 1/32" sheet will do nicely... pop-riveted in place...

Same could be done with a good urethane paint in there (I'm not a fan of pow coating this chassis... though others have done it.

VIOLA!!... No snow/ice sticking.

 

[mountainhorse]

The Standard 2011-2013 RMK does not have this icing problem... and the extrusion used for the cooler does not decrease clearance in the tunnel... it actually looks to be the same extrusion on the std and PRO front of tunnel cooler/plate ... the PRO has the engine side of the plate milled out for lighter weight.

On a Turbo'd PRO Chassis RMK... The standard model would probably be a better choice ... more cooling... less icing..

 

[mountainhorse]

Paul... sincere question...

Moving the inside of the track .40" closer to the upper cross tube of the front swing arm in the skid... do you move the bolt holes in the tunnel and suck up the strap... if not.. how close does the track come to the tube??

I had to move the suspension to the "Assault position" and suck up the limiter strap using an aftermarket limiter on the 2012 PRO with the 7 tooth drivers.

 

[4Z]

Check out the roof of any hard ridden pro and you will most likely find skid marks on the tunnel roof.

I'm not worried about air pressure... but pumping losses as you try to pump a lot of snow through a small opening takes away from the gains of a longer paddle IMO...

Not a big deal unless you have something hanging in the way for the paddle to hit (like a rivet or bolt from the .50 cal you mounted on top).

 

[winter brew]

Paul... sincere question...

Moving the inside of the track .40" closer to the upper cross tube of the front swing arm in the skid... do you move the bolt holes in the tunnel and suck up the strap... if not.. how close does the track come to the tube??

I had to move the suspension to the "Assault position" and suck up the limiter strap using an aftermarket limiter on the 2012 PRO with the 7 tooth drivers.

I'll look at that later when I get to the shop, good point....how did it look when you put the 7T's with the 2.5 on the '12?? Should be the same, no?
I would be more than happy with 1/4" clearance if that really is the case.
I measured a 3" track and it is 3.2" from inner surface to lug tip, stock Poo track 2.6"....so adding 0.6" in track. If the driver is even 0.2" less in radius, I think that would give about the same clearance we get on the XP....if the driver difference is even more that would be great! Will the new 3" design be slightly shorter or longer??? Might have to wait to see on that.
The XP clearance with a 3" is probably closer to 1/8"....still tight but that's only at 1 small point, the rest has more clearance....and more snow build up...so in actual use has the least amount of clearance on those days when wet snow gets iced up solid in there. The point with the least clearance then has the most clearance on the hill...LOL
No doubt a small drop would be ideal...with no movement aft at all. Being able to keep the stock suspension geomety (not move skid back) would be nice for handling.
I'm going to look closer at our Pro and if it looks close we will try it with a 3" on a '13 next fall.

 

[mountainhorse]

...how did it look when you put the 7T's with the 2.5 on the '12?? Should be the same, no?

I had to move it to the assault position and suck up the limiter strap using an aftermarket strap which decreases travel on the skid. RMK rails + Trimming for Combo drivers + assault position = bad for stabbing and too light on the skis.

As I said in a previous post... the XP with the Drop chaincase performed noticeably better than the same sled with 7 tooths alone using the same track.

Lynn, When the track hits the tunnel with enough force to leave behind rubber that is covered with water as a lubricant... it feels like you are slamming on the brakes... the clutches backshift and the sled is not performing as it should... talk to Curt at FasTrax or Brad at PowerAddiction about this.. don't take my word for it.

In order to keep the track from rubbing... you will need to run the track tension very tight.

 

[diamonddave]

Exactly why I will be sheeting the inside of the tunnel at the front with UHMW or teflon from the fwd end of the coolers to the exit from the tunnel... 1/32" sheet will do nicely... pop-riveted in place...

Eric,

What is the black plastic material made out of that covers the fwd area of the Dragon chassis where the 08 cooler use to be?

 

[LoudHandle]

For the lightest weight you could vinyl the inside of the tunnel. The cheapest would be the thin plastic roll up kids sleds you can get everywhere in the winter for $2-3. I have used them to skin my tube chassis race sleds where I wanted to keep snow out, with great success. Just my $0.02