2023 Summit X Expert Observations After First Day Home

[Driver]

Exactly….race sleds. I’m talking Mountain sleds! If you don’t believe me….google Tom’s emotion delete kit.

That’s some funny **** dude! You go ahead and keep thinking that

Deleting t-motion definately makes Gen4 more predictable and stable and I used lock t-motion on my 2018-2022 sleds. But theres nothing wrong with torsion springs. Easy and fast to adjust preload, and its the same thing than adjusting preload on coilover shock. Ofc if you see need to use torsion spring preload setting 3-5 you might want to add rebound on your rear shock. Too bad theres no cliker for this but you can shim your shock.

Like caper11 said, revalving your shocks by professional can make an huge impact on handling. Personally I ride stock suspension with stock valving and have done it for years. Back in my racing days I worked a lot with shocks as they are key component on racing tracks. But on mountain riding I like how current Doos are setup and havent seen a need to change anything.

This coilover propaganda is mostly run by Poo riders and aftermarket companies that make those conversion kits.

 

[turboless terry]

This coilover propaganda is mostly run by Poo riders and aftermarket companies that make those conversion kits.

This is true. Started back with holtz, which i ran on my revs. Nothing wrong with torsion springs. I actually think they are needed to make t motion work properly. I think there is more adjustment in coilovers but I'm adjusting it maybe once and riding it. Weight might be a hair lighter also but splitting hairs. Snow buildup in Track frame has more to do with temps and snow and, i think, the heat exchangers. I've had no snow to a bunch on an alpha. Torsion springs aren't what is holding people back. Keith curtis would still win jackson with them. Snowmobilers would buy sand at the beach.

 

[Daner1978]

Deleting t-motion definately makes Gen4 more predictable and stable and I used lock t-motion on my 2018-2022 sleds. But theres nothing wrong with torsion springs. Easy and fast to adjust preload, and its the same thing than adjusting preload on coilover shock. Ofc if you see need to use torsion spring preload setting 3-5 you might want to add rebound on your rear shock. Too bad theres no cliker for this but you can shim your shock.

Like caper11 said, revalving your shocks by professional can make an huge impact on handling. Personally I ride stock suspension with stock valving and have done it for years. Back in my racing days I worked a lot with shocks as they are key component on racing tracks. But on mountain riding I like how current Doos are setup and havent seen a need to change anything.

This coilover propaganda is mostly run by Poo riders and aftermarket companies that make those conversion kits.

I’m not talking about coil overs. I’m talking about air shocks. Ya know….the Fox QS3 Evols. They don’t make a coil over with Evol silly! Obviously you don’t know your suspension like you think you do

 

[Daner1978]

Not even interested, I had a similar setup in my 09 mod. Never again.
There is Way more adjustment in a torsion spring suspension.
I’ve been having my KYB suspension redone by the guy who sets up the doo race sleds since 2016, very cool technology.


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I’m sorry, but a torsion spring is nowhere near the adjustments that you can do on a Fox QS3 Evol! Who taught you about suspension? Wow you sure are missing out on reality!?

 

[Driver]

I’m not talking about coil overs. I’m talking about air shocks. Ya know….the Fox QS3 Evols. They don’t make a coil over with Evol silly! Obviously you don’t know your suspension like you think you do

Ive been playing with air shocks since 2005. They have their advantages and disadvantages. 90% of the mod sleds Ive ridden are worse than stock. Tbh people should focus on riding and seat time. Admit that its the rider not the sled if its not working out, lower your ego and do better. All the best riders I know run their sleds almost stock, just minor adjustments here and there.

 

[caper11]

I’m sorry, but a torsion spring is nowhere near the adjustments that you can do on a Fox QS3 Evol! Who taught you about suspension? Wow you sure are missing out on reality![emoji23]

Lol, really, I can swap a torsion springs out pretty quick, run staggered tension springs, run staggered cam settings.

Air shocks, lol. They are the worst, I got tired of messing with them because of temp and altitude changes.

Your missing out on a good KYB shock.


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[Answ3r]

How about get rid of the torsion springs all together. I put the Tom’s torsion spring delete on my 2022 Freeride 154” w/ Fox QS3 Evols! The BEST mod you can do to a Skidoo Summit…by far, hands down! Try it….you will never ride another Skidoo with those stupid outdated torsion springs!

Please care to elaborate how it is BETTER and not just DIFFERENT ?

I would never choose air shocks personally, tried them, and nope...

As far as coil over vs torsion springs, both have their advantages and disadvantages, one isn't BETTER in all conditions all the time, and that's just a fact.

You might not like the stock calibration, but that doesn't mean the components are not up to the task, only maybe not suited to your exact needs. From factory, they fit the majority of average rider, because that's the mass buying them.

 

[joshkoltes]

I got rid of my tortion springs cause I couldn't stand how it was always sagging and it's out dated tech on a new machine and mine handled like crap
Did a toms conversion.
I only rode it a couple miles but it seemed a bit more controllable
It's the stupid tall spindles messing me up now

 

[sno*jet]

Lol, really, I can swap a torsion springs out pretty quick, run staggered tension springs, run staggered cam settings.

Air shocks, lol. They are the worst, I got tired of messing with them because of temp and altitude changes.

Your missing out on a good KYB shock.


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you mean like going on a trip from sea level to somewhere 10k+? big deal, you seem to like adjusting suspensions anyway.
ive never seen someone "hold up guys, let me drop a pound of air to compensate for the hill we just climbed". nor have i adjusted for temp. Im sure steal springs are best for racing and trail pounding. I want best performance off trail in mountains myself, which means air shocks for the weight savings. No hate to the guys who need most comfort on the trail ride down when theyre beat lol

 

[caper11]

you mean like going on a trip from sea level to somewhere 10k+? big deal, you seem to like adjusting suspensions anyway.
ive never seen someone "hold up guys, let me drop a pound of air to compensate for the hill we just climbed". nor have i adjusted for temp. Im sure steal springs are best for racing and trail pounding. I want best performance off trail in mountains myself, which means air shocks for the weight savings. No hate to the guys who need most comfort on the trail ride down when theyre beat lol

Lol, my sled is strictly a mountain sled, the most suspension sack I have ever encountered was on my full air shock mod sled, It was a horrible suspension, with a horrible air pump. The only thing useful info I got out of using air shocks was identifying how unbalanced the sled was with a aftermarket muffler on the sled.

To each his own, I get the mountain performance, higher ride height with ski lift control with my revalved KYB’s. Its 100% better than the stock valving, but not everyone likes a stiffer suspension.


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[toms]

For 2023 Ski Doo built arguably the best production sled ever built.
Torsion springs are the absolute most economical route to cover the widest range of rider weight and level. Coil over springs are a much narrower range, therefore not as cost effective. You would need more parts for any inventory to be compatible with the torsion spring. That would be the primary or driving factor why Ski doo continues to use torsion springs. It makes sense.
For their shock and internal design they have not changed in 20+ years. They still use the same piston design as they did back in 2007. If you are to compare between the 2 different types of shocks, coil over type have contamination internally in as little as 200 miles. To be fair, to maintain top quality of the performance of a coil over type shock, you would need to change the shock oil every 500 miles. Preferably with better oil then what stock shock oil is. The contamination is evident on the valve shims as well. There is none on an air shock.
Our front QS3 ski kits are .7 lbs lighter per ski vs. stock. 1 lb. per ski for Evol R. Rear kits are 4.75 lighter than stock. For suspension related parts it is widely accepted that for every 1 lb. weight reduction in unsprung weight, it is equivalent to 6-10 lbs of dead weight. For front and rear changes your weight reduction is between 6-6.75 lbs. That is = to 40.5 lbs of dead weight on the small end of the scale.
For a torsion spring set up w/ a compression adjust you could end up with 110 different setups before changing torsion springs. With Air you would have closer to 400 different settings. You also have the benefit of a full lockout shock, for those who have the luxury of riding in endless powder, thus enhancing your steering capability in the technical riding. Both of these features should be considered to be better. and or better design. Bottom out control is better with an air shock as compared to either torsion or coil over. Weight transfer control is better with air.
Air does not work for a lot of people, we understand that.